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Old 2007-03-11, 13:00   Link #41
dagr81
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with the name heroo how can you be an average pilot

thx for the info
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Old 2007-03-11, 14:19   Link #42
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No, it takes place between Gundam Wing and Endless Waltz.

But to easily dismiss them in favor of the normal Wing Gundam Zero is also a bit foolish. Especially just because of plot-shielded Heero and such.

If you were to put 2 equally skilled pilots against eachother in a normal Wing Gundam Zero and the other in either the Lucifer or the Seraphim, I guarantee that the original Wing Gundam Zero would have a bit of difficulty against the Lucifer or Seraphim with their more advanced ZERO Systems.

They pretty much ARE Wing Gundam Zero in every other aspect with minor cosmetic differences otherwise.
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Old 2007-03-11, 15:13   Link #43
supperrfreek
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of course he's not average, but I think the zero custom could definately out do the lucifer and seraphim, in teil's impulse does that happen?- the wing zero destroying loads of these ms.
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Old 2007-03-12, 13:03   Link #44
Abel-kun
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I think strike freedoms the best because kira has gundamhack and he will just use it to turn all other gundams off lol. seriosly tho turn a/ x are the most advanced
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Old 2007-03-12, 18:23   Link #45
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strike (and any other ce ms) are very user friendly (most especially if the user is a coordinator (and talented ones -like kira- get the best treatment from the electronics in ce ms).
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Old 2007-03-13, 22:56   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supperrfreek View Post
strike (and any other ce ms) are very user friendly (most especially if the user is a coordinator (and talented ones -like kira- get the best treatment from the electronics in ce ms).
But in the very first episode of SEED, didn't Murrue have a load of trouble just getting the Strike to even move in a remotely coordinated manner? It took a huge amount of programming over the course of the series to make CE MS useable for naturals
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Old 2007-03-14, 00:17   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
But in the very first episode of SEED, didn't Murrue have a load of trouble just getting the Strike to even move in a remotely coordinated manner? It took a huge amount of programming over the course of the series to make CE MS useable for naturals
Murrue was one of the dumb humans inwhich CE finds useless, therefor she couldn't operate STRIKE...Once Kira Sesame Street'ed all the OS functions, even someone as sad as Neo could look good in Cagali's ORB OS'd //.hackatsuki...
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Old 2007-03-14, 08:58   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
But in the very first episode of SEED, didn't Murrue have a load of trouble just getting the Strike to even move in a remotely coordinated manner? It took a huge amount of programming over the course of the series to make CE MS useable for naturals
Strike's operating system wasn't finished yet. It can't be used as much of an indicator for anything.
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Old 2007-03-14, 14:46   Link #49
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Murrue was one of the dumb humans inwhich CE finds useless, therefor she couldn't operate STRIKE...Once Kira Sesame Street'ed all the OS functions, even someone as sad as Neo could look good in Cagali's ORB OS'd //.hackatsuki...
It doesn't take much to look good when your enemies die by simply shooting at you
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Old 2007-03-16, 18:48   Link #50
supperrfreek
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Murrue doesn't really count because the os still wasn't finished (as pointed out by 4tran). Even so if that were the original production model it would be screwed in a fight with zero (which came with a complete os)
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Old 2007-03-16, 19:14   Link #51
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But really, overall, the Turn A and the Turn X would kill Wing Gundam Zero pretty badly, even in a one-on-one battle.

They have, most likely...

- A much greater reactor output (meaning they have the ability to use much greater energy-consuming and thus, more powerful weaponry. Even the basic, simplistic beam rifle was immensely powerful compared to "standard" beam rifles of various eras.

- MUCH greater speed and mobility given their more simplistic, human-like structures.

- In the case of the Turn A, many other unknown and possible abilities including barriers, disappearing into thin air and various attacks it may have and the Turn X being able to separate and attack from various directions in a psycommu-type fashion.

- The Turn A has protection that can keep it from even being hit by a nuclear attack while the Wing Gundam Zero could be damaged with strong-enough conventional weaponry. (while it has to be VERY strong like those 4 large torpedoes, it's still conventional)

- The Turn X can suck the energy out of it AND the pilot.

- And and to top it all off, The Moonlight Butterfly...a move that apparently doesn't take ANY charging to do (so can be discharged right away) and can instantly turn Wing Gundam Zero into sand. And virtually impossible to dodge with its length as shown in the history databanks of when Turn A spread the nanomachines across the Earth. Just fly around the area with them spread, sit back and watch Wing Gundam Zero get eaten by them. Even a lesser-powered Moonlight Butterfly can effortlessly destroy entire towns and cities.

The very fact that the Turn A alone could wipe out most of Earth's civiliation is a testament to its overall strength....Wing Gundam Zero is nowhere close to that.
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Old 2007-03-16, 19:56   Link #52
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
The very fact that the Turn A alone could wipe out most of Earth's civiliation is a testament to its overall strength....Wing Gundam Zero is nowhere close to that.
While Turn A is definitely more advanced and more powerful than Wing Zero, it's capabilities are often exaggerated, and its limitations are often left unspoken. The Moonlight Butterfly is a good case in point - while it's the reason for the death of several civilizations, the Moonlight Butterfly itself is a very slowly propagating effect. That it worked is a testament to the incompetence of those it was used against.

I also can't think of any situation where Turn A either teleported or where it survived a close ranged nuclear blast (never mind that this in itself isn't that much of a feat).
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Old 2007-03-16, 22:31   Link #53
supperrfreek
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Not really (even though I haven't seen Turn A gundam), I have a good idea that Wing Zero could definately win, 1st can the turn A or X's cannon destroy a colony. 2nd, sapping the pilots energy would have no effect until it shuts down his brain (zero is ran by the pilot using a direct nuerological link).
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Old 2007-03-16, 22:47   Link #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supperrfreek View Post
Not really (even though I haven't seen Turn A gundam), I have a good idea that Wing Zero could definately win, 1st can the turn A or X's cannon destroy a colony. 2nd, sapping the pilots energy would have no effect until it shuts down his brain (zero is ran by the pilot using a direct nuerological link).
Actually, it's not SO much the rifle that destroys the colony rather than the chain reactions after the fact (colony breaking apart, rupturing systems, pressure, etc)...even still...Wing Gundam could probably do that same thing and the Tallgeese III probably could as well. And the Gundam X and Double X are capable of destroying a colony and more, most likely.

Doesn't make a unit "more advanced" just because it has a big gun(s) on them.

Even with Wing Gundam Zero's firepower, you'd still have to get a good aim on your opponent and any half-decent pilot should have the brains to dodge it quite easily (as Zechs has done several times, even in an outdated Leo), so that leaves little to no doubt in my mind that the Turn A and Turn X could dodge it.

And sapping the pilot's energy would be very harmful actually. If the pilot doesn't have the energy to keep their focus, attention and reflexes up or becomes too slow to be able to move very fast at all, that puts them at a very serious disadvantage. ZERO System doesn't do much good if the pilot can't react fast enough or barely move from the lack of energy. Especially against fast and deadly units like the Turn A and Turn X.
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Old 2007-03-17, 15:23   Link #55
supperrfreek
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no not the wing, only wing Zero and Tallgeese III.
No the weapon isn't advanced as much as it is powerful, I think the method we're using to prove the more advanced is which would win in a fight, which (although majorly dependant on the pilot), is also heavily dependant on the suit.
Although they could dodge it, hiiro seems to know some way of making the beam's diameter change to demolosh more leos.
the zero system doesn't seem to be based on reaction time of the pilot physically, but more mentally, which a lack of energy wouldn't have much of an effect on, as well as focus, which doesn't seem to be effected by fatigue.
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Old 2007-03-19, 22:40   Link #56
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Originally Posted by M_Flores View Post
(btw, VSBR > TBR)
btw, TBR is a VSRB, of cours not an official UC VRSB

from what i can understand the technology enables to change the power output and speed of the blast/laser/energy from "high output/damage and little penetration to lower output/damage and high penetration

correct me if i'm wrong but isnt it something the TBR is capable of doing??

(in anticipation to UC hardcore flaming me)

of course we have no indication that the TBR could focus its beam to be able to pierce a beam shield or planetary defense system
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Old 2007-03-19, 22:45   Link #57
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From what I can tell there's no such system on the TBR...the only time I recall it making "smaller" beams was either a small shot (unsustained) or separated the rifle into its 2 smaller halves.

Also, after watching Victory Gundam, the mega beam rifle also seems even more destructive than the Buster Rifle by its own standards. One shot took out 8-9 Tyre-equipped MS with a single shot that could just be seen (and they weren't even directly in front of the blast either, most were just near it). Who knows how many others.
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Old 2007-03-19, 23:04   Link #58
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well the way i remember it is that the smaller shots were more precise and faster than the big laser of doom that ppl tend to associate the TBR with
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Old 2007-03-20, 00:30   Link #59
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supperrfreek
No the weapon isn't advanced as much as it is powerful, I think the method we're using to prove the more advanced is which would win in a fight, which (although majorly dependant on the pilot), is also heavily dependant on the suit.
That isn't really true. If you really wanted to know which would win in a fight, you should really post the versus setup in the "Several VS opinions" thread. It's sort of dead now, but that's mostly because nobody's posted any familiar mobile suits lately.

In a debate over which mobile suit is the most advanced, we should be ultimately concerned with which ones have the most advanced technology. In a way, there really shouldn't be much debate here since it's quite obvious that Turn X and Turn A take the top nods with Devil Gundam getting an honorable mention. Also, Victory 2 is clearly much more advanced than any other UC mobile suit (and before anyone brings it up, Zanspine isn't going to count until someone puts it in a significant piece of animation), and any mobile suit outside of G Gundam and Turn A Gundam for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supperrfreek
the zero system doesn't seem to be based on reaction time of the pilot physically, but more mentally, which a lack of energy wouldn't have much of an effect on, as well as focus, which doesn't seem to be effected by fatigue.
The Zero system also hasn't conclusively been proven to increase a pilot's abilities by a significant degree either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
btw, TBR is a VSRB, of cours not an official UC VRSB

from what i can understand the technology enables to change the power output and speed of the blast/laser/energy from "high output/damage and little penetration to lower output/damage and high penetration
For all intents and purposes, VSRB is a technology unique to UC Gundam that's designed to defeat a defensive technology that's likewise unique to UC Gundam. It's sort of pointless claim that a non-UC weapon would do exactly the same thing. It's also not necessary to do so: UC beam shields can only deflect so much damage. All you have to do is to exceed this damage threshold to outright destroy the shield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero system
of course we have no indication that the TBR could focus its beam to be able to pierce a beam shield or planetary defense system
It's more pratical to point out that no beam shield or planetary defense system has been shown to be capable of withstanding the firepower of a full-powered Twin Buster Rifle shot, so the point is moot. In fact, the only defensive shield systems that are conclusively capable of doing so are the beam shields mounted on EA mobile armors in Destiny and V2's Wings of Light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera
Also, after watching Victory Gundam, the mega beam rifle also seems even more destructive than the Buster Rifle by its own standards. One shot took out 8-9 Tyre-equipped MS with a single shot that could just be seen (and they weren't even directly in front of the blast either, most were just near it). Who knows how many others.
I'm not sure that this is particularly good proof that the mega beam rifle is more powerful than the Twin Buster Rifle. After all, it can well be indicative of the beam rifle having a damage radius greater than that of its visible beam, and/or of the weakness of the Einerad-equipped mobile suits. A better example may be pointing out things like the range and damage radius of the Zanneck's gun (for those that haven't seen Victory Gundam, it was taking out entire city blocks with a single shot from what was likely to be lower-earth orbit).
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Old 2007-03-20, 05:08   Link #60
Abel-kun
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After looking over G gundam again i will have to retract my statment about turn a/x and say the devil gundam is most advanced. think , the DG can poses ppl and thus wuld win any fight because the other suit wuldt have a pilot due to this effect and lets not forget about the kick ass regeneration abily.
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