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Old 2017-06-05, 00:47   Link #461
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well because it takes a specific procedure to impeach a president. It has been done before, but no one has been removed from office because of it. Nixon resigned before he could be impeached. Clinton was impeached but not removed. Johnson was threatened with impeachment so he'd tow the line for Congress.

It is up to Congress to decide on impeachment. There is no other legal way that I am aware of for removing the President of the United States.
It is too early to talk about impeachment, when we are not even sure Trump would even lose re-election.

I say let him stay, until and unless the American people actually voted him out.

I think too many Americans are still pretending Trump wasn't what the American people voted for. Let's give them another chance to prove that this was not an accident. That Donald Trump is exactly what represents the American People.

If anything, all the talk about impeachment is made because people are terrified about the implications of a 2nd term Trump. That many people would rather not consider that possibility. But really, sometimes you have to face reality to fix it.
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Old 2017-06-05, 00:56   Link #462
Ithekro
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Well the question why is Trump still there, why are the Americans not removing him, as seen from someone looking in.

The answer is because we only remove our presidents by voting every four years or impeaching them via Congress. The first happens every four to eight years, the later has basically never happened in full. Even with Nixon, who resigned to keep the nation from going through yet another huge political trial as this was just after Watergate and would have been even worse, not only for national moral (already at an all time low as it was at the end of the Vietnam War) but also very lengthy and it would be on TV all programing day long with only three networks to choose from.

The only other ways are very illegal and usually we don't want those to happen.
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Old 2017-06-05, 01:12   Link #463
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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In the end the only reason GOP haven't impeached Trump, is because they believe they can win a 2nd presidency with Trump. That's all.

And if GOP believes it, they could just be right.

Remember that in USA, unpopularity doesn't translate to election loss because so few vote.

While with Australia, compulsory voting means loss in popularity automatically meant election disaster. So Tony Abbott was immediately removed by his own party once they saw that he couldn't be re-elected.

So let me repeat, he is still not being impeached because American Voters want him for a 2nd term.
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Old 2017-06-05, 02:12   Link #464
Toukairin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
While with Australia, compulsory voting means loss in popularity automatically meant election disaster. So Tony Abbott was immediately removed by his own party once they saw that he couldn't be re-elected.
This is arguably the perk I love most of the British-inspired parliamentary system. If the head of the party and elected leader screws up that badly, a group of MPs can gather enough momentum within the party to get rid of the head and start anew. The British Conservatives ditched Margaret Thatcher when it was clear that she would no longer gather enough support, and that was after Thatcher's closest ally Geoffrey Howe had enough and resigned.

In the US, you will just never see the party backstabbing its own leader even when that kind of action would be the right course of action to take sometimes. That's too bad because that's the kind of intrigue that would keep millions of people watching TV reports on domestic politics every day.
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Old 2017-06-05, 02:14   Link #465
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well the question why is Trump still there, why are the Americans not removing him, as seen from someone looking in.

The answer is because we only remove our presidents by voting every four years or impeaching them via Congress. The first happens every four to eight years, the later has basically never happened in full. Even with Nixon, who resigned to keep the nation from going through yet another huge political trial as this was just after Watergate and would have been even worse, not only for national moral (already at an all time low as it was at the end of the Vietnam War) but also very lengthy and it would be on TV all programing day long with only three networks to choose from.

The only other ways are very illegal and usually we don't want those to happen.
yeah i knew, that is why i talked about citizens pressure, while this means nothing for the first(elections) this can help a lot for the later(impeachment), i take here my country, we already take out the corrupt woman not we are working to get ridle of her vice, here peoples really "rant" when a politic really do "shit" and like i told i saw this happen in others countries aswell with democracy but on USA this is more hard to see like we talked before looks like really american just don't care if the president is crap or crazy while i can see news about few peoples here and there overal the americans are very silencious toward it, like as you told let's just wait his time end(his term as president) but allowing he does even worst, trump is damaging a lot USA reputation toward others countries, like i told he is doing almost the same as kim jon all he need now is just start to launch some random missiles and we have a kim 2.0(even worst), because kim only throw some missiles so far while trump goes rampage against all his allies and with missiles could means a big world war against usa or being less crazy, others countries start embagues and others others ways to make USA economy fall, it's like trump is not aware of "globalization" and if usa try to pull a old imperial china or japan and shut close themselfs maybe this can do more damage and a fall apart of american than america not "need others countries to survive alone".

i'm not a expert on that but the chances of USA get even worst with trump doing what he is doing are big, this guy really doing just shit so far, the only thing he is really doing is undo everything was did on america until today and his idiot "trump wall" which he is desperated to make at any cost, which ironically in case he lose on the re-elections the other guy can come and just break them all, his ideas are really insane ones so far.
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Old 2017-06-05, 02:33   Link #466
Ithekro
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As mentioned, a fair number of Americas could give less than a fart in caring what the rest of the World does, much less thinks of the US. What happens outside makes absolutely no difference to them. "Why should I care what they think of us in Germany?" The more extreme of those will go "and if they try something, we'll just invade them again".


Part of the entire point as to why Trump gained votes in Middle America is because they want to be self sufficient. They want globalization to die. They want the US to be what it was in 1940. Isolationist industrial powerhouse. That was why the slogan "make America great again" rang true with them. They want that America back. Back then the United States was the largest producer of oil on the planet. The one that can out produce the world in most areas. The America that doesn't need the world to stand alone (in truth it needs trade, but if you are producing, they will come and buy). An America that didn't need a large standing army that is either fighting or defending places all over the planet. What it had was a large navy, and an army that could grow when needed, and in today's world, it also have a standing air force with both bombers and missile command to keep nuclear strikes away, with fighters to intercept other nations military flights near our airspace.

That is why they wanted Trump. They don't want to care about the rest of the world, they want to leave it alone and return to isolationism where the main international contact was trade and waving at visitors from time to time. What happened in Europe, Africa, Asia, or wherever was their problem, not America's problem. The only time it became America's problem was when it interfered with trade (or got dangerously close to an American territory, such as the Philippines at that time, or Guam today).
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Old 2017-06-05, 03:58   Link #467
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I would think most Americans don't actually listen to him, nor international news really. What happens outside their general city can mean very little to many people, and after the last decade and half, people don't care about the news anymore.
Its no wonder it have been easy for leftist outlets like Salon to paint France as a racist shithole where cops hunts immigrants like game, whereas those like Fox News and Breitbart made it as if we are turning into a Qalifate, with militias ruling the "no-go zones" like the car gangs from Mad Max movies.

And that's just France.
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Old 2017-06-05, 04:48   Link #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Its no wonder it have been easy for leftist outlets like Salon to paint France as a racist shithole where cops hunts immigrants like game, whereas those like Fox News and Breitbart made it as if we are turning into a Qalifate, with militias ruling the "no-go zones" like the car gangs from Mad Max movies.

And that's just France.
Cops hunting immigrants like game.... if that were true then Breibart and co should be praising them, since that's what they'd want.
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Old 2017-06-05, 05:33   Link #469
Sheba
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that deformed vision of the world have been made easier with the algorithms used by social networks like twitter and facebook. Those made suggestions according to users' browser history and locked them down in their own echo chambers. Paving the way to people like Trump.
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Old 2017-06-05, 09:41   Link #470
Blueknight78
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@Ithekro i an understand this, but the problem is not just outside, he is damaging also inside american, he literally did "nothing so far" to make "american great" they still have a large number of peoples without a job and he doing even worst he take away the health care system, he is trying to take money for all the country health systems the retriment and a lot of places to "build his wondefull monument wall", the damage is not only outside but also inside and while i see protests toward it, it still feels like really not enough cares what he is doing to scare the republicans.

ps what is this "GOP(the power behind trump)" which your's are speaking???
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Old 2017-06-05, 13:16   Link #471
Ithekro
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It is barely June. Most Americans don't actually expect the president to have done anything for about a year into their presidency. Trump has been president less than six months.
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Old 2017-06-05, 13:37   Link #472
Toukairin
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It is barely June. Most Americans don't actually expect the president to have done anything for about a year into their presidency. Trump has been president less than six months.
Undoing almost everything Obama did for no rational reason whatsoever and without consulting the people first is quite an indicator of (pardon the language) fucking things up. Everything he did in almost 5 months has been all about fucking things up BOTH abroad and at home because the man has a personal vendetta against his predecessor.

If anything, I hope there will be blood soon when Americans suffer the effects of his crappy stunts (a.k.a. crappy policies).

Last edited by Toukairin; 2017-06-05 at 15:22.
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Old 2017-06-05, 14:46   Link #473
Ithekro
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To be honest, I don't expect the county to be any different than it was in 2007, just ten years ago. People make it seem like the end of the world, but realistically the main difference is the Federal government stops paying for things that they were not paying for in the previous decade. There are other effects of course since people just started getting use to the changes made by the Obama administration, and to the rest of the world, who've had many of these things provided by their governments for decades or even afew generations, this would seem like an unspeakable crime, but to the Americans? To many (enough to get Trump elected) they didn't want tax dollars or Federal regulations over certain things at all, or get the trickle down taxes or added costs shoved on the consumers from international treaties.

What happens from all of this? It is honestly too soon to tell. Most changes won't even go into effect for years, yet people panic before the pen even hits the paper. A paper that can be vetoed by the next president or overturned by Congress if it becomes an actual problem for America.
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Old 2017-06-05, 15:59   Link #474
Honoakari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro
People make it seem like the end of the world
It's the effect of CNN, NBC, ABC and other similar branches of the Ministry of Truth forcing exaggerated anti-Trump propaganda into people's minds every day...

For those who are unaware, here is a recent study about the news regarding President Trump. The number is a staggering 88% negative coverage...

The thing is, not everyone has the time/interest to follow politics closely. They will simply follow the news, or listen to what other people who follow the news have to say. And so when the mainstream media, owned/financed by the losing side (who can't accept that they lost) tells people every day that "Trump is racist, xenophobic, [...], and now that he's President, we're all doomed", the average person might end up believing it. "All these people are saying it, therefore it must be true..."
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Old 2017-06-05, 16:16   Link #475
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Honoakari View Post
It's the effect of CNN, NBC, ABC and other similar branches of the Ministry of Truth forcing exaggerated anti-Trump propaganda into people's minds every day...

For those who are unaware, here is a recent study about the news regarding President Trump. The number is a staggering 88% negative coverage...

The thing is, not everyone has the time/interest to follow politics closely. They will simply follow the news, or listen to what other people who follow the news have to say. And so when the mainstream media, owned/financed by the losing side (who can't accept that they lost) tells people every day that "Trump is racist, xenophobic, [...], and now that he's President, we're all doomed", the average person might end up believing it. "All these people are saying it, therefore it must be true..."
the same can be told about the ones like fox which support trump and make a lot of news and info sayng how awesome he is but, is not hard to ignore a guy which keep posting a lot of crap on his twitter and when goes outside his country also do a lot of crap and be very rude (to not use worst words) to others peoples around him, he is literally asking to be bad news, is not really hard and not only mainstream medias which make him be what he is, is his ownself, like one of his workers told in a interview if trump learned to keep his "bad mouth" closed maybe his life could be better.
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Old 2017-06-05, 16:50   Link #476
GDB
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It is barely June. Most Americans don't actually expect the president to have done anything for about a year into their presidency. Trump has been president less than six months.
Actually, most Americans expect the President to get more done in the first 100 days than during any other period of time. It's when their approval ratings are the highest, and it's why they even have the 100 day benchmark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honoakari View Post
It's the effect of CNN, NBC, ABC and other similar branches of the Ministry of Truth forcing exaggerated anti-Trump propaganda into people's minds every day...
Rich coming from anyone spouting Breitbart and InfoWarz-esque catchphrases like "Ministry of Truth". Remember when Obama was a Muslim Nigerian Communist Nazi Anti-Christ with absolutely zero evidence other than being a black democrat? At least there's smoke, if not fire, for the claims against Trump.
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Old 2017-06-05, 16:54   Link #477
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Honoakari View Post
and now that he's President, we're all doomed", the average person might end up believing it. "All these people are saying it, therefore it must be true..."
Regardless of what your politic affiliation is, him walking out of Paris Accord should be pretty damn telling. But fuck the planet, you wanted him to make a point against those fucking communists, right?
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Old 2017-06-05, 17:08   Link #478
Dauerlutscher
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Originally Posted by Honoakari View Post
It's the effect of CNN, NBC, ABC and other similar branches of the Ministry of Truth forcing exaggerated anti-Trump propaganda into people's minds every day...

For those who are unaware, here is a recent study about the news regarding President Trump. The number is a staggering 88% negative coverage...

The thing is, not everyone has the time/interest to follow politics closely. They will simply follow the news, or listen to what other people who follow the news have to say. And so when the mainstream media, owned/financed by the losing side (who can't accept that they lost) tells people every day that "Trump is racist, xenophobic, [...], and now that he's President, we're all doomed", the average person might end up believing it. "All these people are saying it, therefore it must be true..."
But your Führer is all that and he prooves it every time he does something...
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Old 2017-06-05, 17:25   Link #479
Eisdrache
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
What happens from all of this? It is honestly too soon to tell. Most changes won't even go into effect for years, yet people panic before the pen even hits the paper. A paper that can be vetoed by the next president or overturned by Congress if it becomes an actual problem for America.
That's because you don't understand what the Paris climate pact is. Vetoed? Overturned? There is literally no enforcement mechanism in the pact and neither is it legally binding so just what exactly are you trying to veto? The biggest offense however is your idea of 'we can deal with it when it has turned into a problem'. No we can't because by then you will have slightly bigger problems like droughts, floods and other natural disasters as well as the huge economical and humanitarian problems resulting of them.

Speaking of problems, guess what. They're already here. Getting out of the climate pact signed by nearly every country on Earth is already causing massive reputation damage. This will have consequences for companies working abroad or internationally. Also investing into renewable energy creates jobs. Yes really, creates. Countries that are leading in that sector will have the advantage and getting out of the pact sets America's position massively behind. The only reason why it's not as impactful so far is because American companies and states are following the goals of the pact on their own regardless of what their government says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honoakari View Post
It's the effect of CNN, NBC, ABC and other similar branches of the Ministry of Truth forcing exaggerated anti-Trump propaganda into people's minds every day...

For those who are unaware, here is a recent study about the news regarding President Trump. The number is a staggering 88% negative coverage...

The thing is, not everyone has the time/interest to follow politics closely. They will simply follow the news, or listen to what other people who follow the news have to say. And so when the mainstream media, owned/financed by the losing side (who can't accept that they lost) tells people every day that "Trump is racist, xenophobic, [...], and now that he's President, we're all doomed", the average person might end up believing it. "All these people are saying it, therefore it must be true..."
I have asked you before but let me ask you again: Tell me five positive things Trump has done in his presidency. If that's too hard you can start with three. The reason why he has 88% negative coverage is because he everything he did so far is damaging America. Give me some counter-facts if you disagree. So far you have not given a single one.
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Old 2017-06-05, 17:49   Link #480
ganbaru
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So far the only positive he did is to back out of the TPP which he did early on. Since that he and the republican did nothing but bad or worse.
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