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Old 2017-11-04, 22:51   Link #4701
frubam
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Well, with Blue, its hard to tell exactly how much energy he is exerting. Him getting rekt'd as Blue isn't anything that practically everyone in the series has done at some point or another, but that's most likely because even lesser opponents, he'll only set his strength to be high enough to withstand an assault. This is particularly the case for this tournament.

Also, its a minor thing, but he did get beaten pretty badly by Jiren. Could have gotten a bit stronger because of that and(what I dub as) the Ultra Instinct training he had with those two at first.
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Old 2017-11-04, 22:56   Link #4702
grecefar
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Well I'm happy because vegito vs jiren can happen in future chapters now.
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:04   Link #4703
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by grecefar View Post
Well I'm happy because vegito vs jiren can happen in future chapters now.
No, Kale and Caulifla were given Potara earrings beforehand and were carrying them before the Tournament of Power began.

Goku and Vegeta aren't carrying any.
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:14   Link #4704
Archon_Wing
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Originally Posted by B214 View Post
I don't remember where but i think it was mentioned before in some guide book that Vegeta unlocked the Super Saiyan 2 even before he became Majin Vegeta. He just wasn't at Goku's level and used Babidi's power to increase his power to Goku's level.
It's vague but I think Vegeta had gotten Super Saiyan 2 before hand and the maijin power was just to allow him to unleash his full evil and douchebaggery which he felt he had lost. He also went Super Saiyan 2 when he was fighting Buu after he came back from the dead and the M was long gone by then and he had no time to get stronger in the afterlife.

I'd even argue that Babidi may not even give that much power. Sure, he can make humans have supernatural strength, but that's hardly anything special in this series. And there's like Pui Pui..... And Majin Buu was already strong before Babidi even existed. Honestly, this wouldn't even be an issue if Kaioshin wasn't such a dumb shit and hyped up Babidi's minions when they weren't really that strong.

There's also Vegeta's lack of enthusasim for Dabura who was allegedly Cell's level and he comments that Goku's strength being "at least you're stronger than your son when he fought Cell" suggests that being at a Super Saiyan 2 level of power isn't that hard and he was actually expecting it all along.... I don't think he'd be that arrogant to think, even for him, that he could match Goku with just Super Saiyan 1.

Cell saga pretty much hammered in that they were stuck at a certain level regardless of training unless they managed to make a new breakthrough, which is why Goku didn't even bother training more. Nobody could, until Gohan showed them. And thus it was only natural that Goku would pick it up. I don't think Veggie's any different.

What is more likely is that SS2 Goku > SS2 Vegeta before maijin
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:17   Link #4705
BassGSnewtype
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Goku's face when Kale and Cauliflua fused, maybe he's thinking "Is this what's like when Vegeta and I fuse?"
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:24   Link #4706
sayde
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
No, Kale and Caulifla were given Potara earrings beforehand and were carrying them before the Tournament of Power began.

Goku and Vegeta aren't carrying any.
Doesn't mean it's not possible though. As Nvis pointed out, there's always the possibility of Goku somehow obtaining Kefla's earrings. Granted, I don't think it's likely to happen.

At this point, the only thing I'm left wondering is if Kefla really will push Goku into re-awakening Ultra Instinct, or if Golden Frieza will be the one to step in and defeat her.
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:42   Link #4707
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Regarding fusion...does Vegeta know the fusion dance? Granted, if the potara fusion didn't last long with Blue Vegito then Blue Gogeta would most likely go poof just as quickly.
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Old 2017-11-05, 03:26   Link #4708
Sixth
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Originally Posted by BassGSnewtype View Post
Goku's face when Kale and Cauliflua fused, maybe he's thinking "Is this what's like when Vegeta and I fuse?"
Or maybe..

Goku: This is how Super Buu and Merged Zamasu felt when they saw us fused? The feeling of fcked up?... damn it.
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Old 2017-11-05, 03:40   Link #4709
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I hate fusions, hopefully it is the last time we'll see one.
The interruptions this episode were bad and did cost a lot of time. It was miles below of the last episode. Next episode is looking to be the same. With androids and Namekians in the preview.
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Old 2017-11-05, 06:01   Link #4710
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Originally Posted by Hoodspirit View Post
I hate fusions, hopefully it is the last time we'll see one.
The interruptions this episode were bad and did cost a lot of time. It was miles below of the last episode. Next episode is looking to be the same. With androids and Namekians in the preview.
Fusions are awesome. Not sure why you don't like them.
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Old 2017-11-05, 06:23   Link #4711
Hoodspirit
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Originally Posted by Freya View Post
Fusions are awesome. Not sure why you don't like them.
My personal main issues with fusions:
-It creates a new character and throws the characters and their previous struggles away, for a short period of time to steal their spotlight at the most dramatic point of an arc.
-I can't get invested in a ~5 minute appearance.
-The power boost is too strong regarding the requirements and feels like a cheap solution
-personalities that don't fit well together have so far not resulted in a drawback of any kind in fusion, alienating the new character further from the characters I'm used to.
-I don't get the feeling that the single fighters overcame the powerful opponent themselves this way, which for characters like Goku and Vegeta is the whole point of fighting rather than just defeating someone

But that is just me.
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Old 2017-11-05, 06:29   Link #4712
xrick
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Yep, I guess that's just you. I've never had an issue with fusions (despite thinking the Fusion Dance is silly as hell) and such a thing is kind of a staple in Battle Manga (getting a shenanigan to overcome the odds).
I've also never felt alienated from single characters and/or their struggles, since the plot usually makes it so said cheap solution doesn't manage to be the endgame of a fight, only something to get people roused up in a short term.
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Old 2017-11-05, 06:53   Link #4713
Gan_HOPE326
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Originally Posted by Hoodspirit View Post
-I don't get the feeling that the single fighters overcame the powerful opponent themselves this way, which for characters like Goku and Vegeta is the whole point of fighting rather than just defeating someone
But isn't that kind of the point of why Saiyans especially don't spam it and use it as a last resource? In the fight against Buu it was really either that or the extinction of humanity. Even afterwards, when they think they can take on Kid Buu they willingly refuse to fuse again.

Anyway I always thought it was a bit more complicated than just "the characters disappear". They exist in some sort of... shared consciousness state, I guess? They have distinct memories of it afterwards. It's a more intimate union than "two souls controlling one body", but less intimate than "a completely new mind".
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Old 2017-11-05, 07:16   Link #4714
Hakai
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Although I'm not really a fan of either Kale or Caulifla individually I'm really looking forward to some Kafla action next week tbh.
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Old 2017-11-05, 08:15   Link #4715
Mad Pierrot
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Man, this must be the longest fight of this entire arc. Still, wasn't established long ago that Super Saiyans Gods are on a whole new level to the point even fusions can't reach them?

Also, what's up with the red clothed soldier who looks exactly like Beerus?
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Old 2017-11-05, 09:03   Link #4716
Sixth
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Let's see whether the BS rule of the fusion (the stronger you are the shorter fusion duration will be) will apply on Kefla in the next episode?
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Old 2017-11-05, 10:09   Link #4717
Mister Twit
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Expecting a screwjob ending here, since the rules stated no items were allowed. I mean that's the whole reason that Roshi had to be eliminated in order to take a senzu bean.

If they had fused normally by doing the dance it would have been a different story, but Champa went and yelled out from the stands.
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Old 2017-11-05, 10:29   Link #4718
rpgman1
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Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
Man, this must be the longest fight of this entire arc. Still, wasn't established long ago that Super Saiyans Gods are on a whole new level to the point even fusions can't reach them?

Also, what's up with the red clothed soldier who looks exactly like Beerus?
Fusions are still valid and you have to wonder how Goku and Vegeta can handle a Potara-fused Kefla? Though I think Kefla won't last long since they don't know about the energy burn out if they keep using energy and transformations that will drain it faster, causing them to defuse in the middle of the battle.

As to you other question, that is Dyspo and one of the Pride Troopers of U11. His speciality is speed.
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Old 2017-11-05, 10:46   Link #4719
Gan_HOPE326
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Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
Man, this must be the longest fight of this entire arc. Still, wasn't established long ago that Super Saiyans Gods are on a whole new level to the point even fusions can't reach them?
Eh, it's obviously not true though. If that was the case then Super Saiyan Gods would have wiped the floor with almost everyone they fought that wasn't quite at their level instantly. Here SSJG Goku was keeping up with Kale and Caulifla, but not roflstomping them. Heck, Goku and Vegeta transformed to take on the freakin' Trio de Dangers. That would really be overkill by that logic.

By the Battle of Gods movie, where Beerus could send SSJ3 Goku flying with the flick of his finger, you might be right (but let's not forget that base Vegito was already far, far, FAR stronger than SSJ3 Goku, as he could take on Super Buu who had absorbed Ultimate Gohan, whereas SSJ3 Goku struggled against the much weaker Fat/Kid Buu). By the new Super canon, that has basically made official the "power levels are BULLSHIT" rule, I don't think it matters much.
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Old 2017-11-05, 12:08   Link #4720
DemonneoPT
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The animation improved so much in the last episodes. The shading in particular was amazing in the current episode. Kale looked so good and her transformation reminded me of the old school animation from the Z era. Just beautiful and badass.

I hope Kefla gains a little more muscle when turning SSJ. Too skinny!
It would be nice if Vegeta and Goku do their funny dance and make a fusion too to face Kefla..lol. The look on everyone's faces would be priceless xD

Regarding powerlevels, i gave up a long time ago. I'm just digging the new animation improvements and the funny character interactions. I'm entertained and that's enough for me!
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