Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Kaoru Chujo]

1. Some great battle animation and light shows.

2. Good way to arrange to have a fight with some of the Vajra while making friends with most, as I hoped would happen.

3. Loved May'N's late insert song. Loved all the music.

4. The no-decision triangle was pretty lame, but necessary, I guess. I guess I should wait for a sub, but I'd say that the idea that Sheryl has the lead is wrong. She and Alto may have spent more time together recently, but there is just as much indication that Ranka is his #1 as that Sheryl is. One salute is not enough, whatever its referents. In fact, I think the writing is rather poor, and that Alto is made to be inconsistent just so there can be a sequel.

5. Much as I enjoyed this last episode, it helps drive the show's rating down, for me. A lot of shoot-em-up and too little sensible character development.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Hope it continues, myself. If only because I truly care about some of the characters...

Yeah, same here. I love a lot of the characters and want to see more of them.

[akagian]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

1. Some great battle animation and light shows.

2. Good way to arrange to have a fight with some of the Vajra while making friends with most, as I hoped would happen.

3. Loved May'N's late insert song. Loved all the music.

4. The no-decision triangle was pretty lame, but necessary, I guess. I guess I should wait for a sub, but I'd say that the idea that Sheryl has the lead is wrong. She and Alto may have spent more time together recently, but there is just as much indication that Ranka is his #1 as that Sheryl is. One salute is not enough, whatever its referents. In fact, I think the writing is rather poor, and that Alto is made to be inconsistent just so there can be a sequel.

5. Much as I enjoyed this last episode, it helps drive the show's rating down, for me. A lot of shoot-em-up and too little sensible character development.

haven't seen the subbed version, but i think since it is the last episode there is no more room to develop the characters.

i do think that alto really was going for ranka, as shown in ep 24 when he indicate that he did everything (join the force, blast the varja) to protect ranka (that is one sympyom of "love" right?). but when sheryl showed him her courage and determination (at her "dying" moments) then he started to like her as well. that for me is the root of the indecisiveness. but why chose one from the two at this time when they can enjoy together what they just achieved.

let love take a backseat for once and let friendship and camarederie take the center stage.

[BetoJR]

I, for one, wouldn't peg Alto as indecisive. If anything, he worries too little about most of his decisions, but once he makes them, he goes through. Anyway, still waiting for the subs.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by akagian

i do think that alto really was going for ranka, as shown in ep 24 when he indicate that he did everything (join the force, blast the varja) to protect ranka (that is one sympyom of "love" right?). but when sheryl showed him her courage and determination (at her "dying" moments) then he started to like her as well. that for me is the root of the indecisiveness. but why chose one from the two at this time when they can enjoy together what they just achieved.

Anything can happen in the game of love Just look at Macross, Hikaru also did a lot for Minmay but in the end, he end up choosing Misa.

It's a toss up between the 2 girls, Alto thinks of Ranka more than he did for Sheryl (atleast by the number of scenes) but Sheryl understand Alto more than Ranka.

Anyway it's over... no more Macross to look forward to next week. Wish they made a 2nd season or OVA instead of just a movie.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by raile

Agreed. One of the things that Macross centralizes is love, so marriages are acceptable. Max and Milia, what a great couple.

hehe! divorce also exist in Macross! Did they got back together at the end?

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Somebody hasn't watched Kimagure Orange Road, or Maison Ikkoku, or Full Metal Panic. They had 'love triangles' but they were never true love triangles if the audience paid any attention at all. Not all love triangles are ever truly equal.

The difference is this series is built around a love triangle referring to it dozens of times through songs and even having literal triangles drawn in the animation. If you're gonna put so much emphasis on a triangle, and only build up the romance with 2 of the 3 characters, then you're doing it wrong. That's like doing a versus movie about a naked midget vs an armed giant with gatling guns.

And out of those listed, I've only seen FMP and it was never about a triangle, so there's no need for it to be equal/fair. Chidori was always going to be the one that ends up with Sousuke. Tessa's crush thing is just a very small element that makes for great cute and comic relief scenes. And even that is more balanced since they made all three of them likable. You don't see polls where it's 80% Chidori, 20% Tessa, it's always something like 60/40. Can't comment on the other two, haven't seen 'em.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by aneeshadc

@ Golthin

If a Ranka shipper like Wolfboy can agree with me that the triangle has been pretty much onesided, I dont know why a neutral shipper like you cant see it? Unless of course you're a closet ranka fan?

Of course it was one sided. sheryl took a huge lead and I have always said that a Rankaxalto at the end would have been more WTF than what happened here. Kawamori knew this so he just did a reset and start over. I was saying that you guys don't take your shipper goggles off either and won't accept that Ranka was ahead before she left MF. you main reason for giving sheryl the lead before 21 is that Sheryl had more kisses than Ranka, but all the kisses were from Sheryl to Alto. the girls were even in the kissing area all over the series. Alto never initiated a KISS with any of the girls before episode 21(only time he might have was that time after Alto found out about sheryl's illness , but we know Sheryl had the "I am dying" card there).


Sheryl should have won at the end, but Kawamori just wanted to be fair with Ranka. His plot took her out of the LT and out of the competition. After episode 21 there was not a LT anymore in the show. Still, Alto was with sheryl because he loves her and out of obligation, sheryl was too proud for that. Her outburst with luca was just showing her frustration. that is why she told him not to be nice to her because she would take advantage of it. (Sheryl knew she was taking advantage of alto's kindness).

there is not doubt that Alto has feelings for both girls, thus his line that you can't fly alone.
maybe you misunderstood something I wrote, because I don't remember writing anything saying that the LT was not one sided once Ranka left in episode 21. can you quote where you get that I don't think it was one sided?

[zalem]

Originally Posted by akagian

i do think that alto really was going for ranka, as shown in ep 24 when he indicate that he did everything (join the force, blast the varja) to protect ranka (that is one sympyom of "love" right?).

A symptom of love or simply an outgrowth of his need to protect someone? Afterall, his joining SMS occurred in the beginning of the series. I would hardly call him "in love" with Ranka at that point. Not saying he never had any feelings at all, but certainly not then. I would say he didn't see her romantically at all until around episode 12.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by zalem

Ranka shippers are trying to play down the salute like crazy. But the parallel to Misa/Hikaru is just way too obvious to ignore. Oh well, they can console themselves with the fact that technically Alto did not choose anyone so we have this ambiguous ending...

I want the movie to be a continuation story, but I have a feeling it won't be. Damnit, I'd like Brera to be more fully developed.

of course they are! Same as Sheryl's shipper are down playing the Ranka x alto moments too. right now both camps are grasping at everything they can because Kawamori reset everything. Remember that Alto had a mandate, "save Sanka-chan and come back". Mission accomplished.

Really, for a non military guy, that salute was so out of character( homage) for alto to salute anyone, more considering he didn't have any military training. Believe me, It takes quite a while to develop the reflex for a military salute, it is something that drill sergents drill to you constantly and punish you when you don't do it with push ups(I was ex military).

[erfine]

I think you missed why Ranka left Frontier in the first place. If Alto had understood her feelings about the Vajra, she would have stayed. Earlier, she was willing to ignore those feelings if it meant that Alto would love her. But when she saw that Alto only saw her as a tool to destroy the Vajra, she knew that the whole thing was just a farce. She needed to get away from there to be true to herself. The only thing that's changed is that she understands herself well enough now to make a fresh start of things, both in singing and affairs of the heart.

I don't think "fairness" even enters the picture at all. The writers aren't referreeing a game; they're directing it.

[Zekori]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

Anyway it's over... no more Macross to look forward to next week. Wish they made a 2nd season or OVA instead of just a movie.

Not really, saw this last episode more of setting the stage for a few possibilities for a future macross (such as Zero, which was arbitrarily a worse ending, had set up for frontier)

Just like in Macross Seven we saw characters like Max and Milla pop in now and then as supporting characters, we could possibly see the same for a future character with cameo's with Alto and the rest.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by golthin

hehe! divorce also exist in Macross! Did they got back together at the end?

They seem to be on the road to reconciliation in Macross 7, but it ends open-ended enough for fans to speculate what comes after on their own.

Kawamori was pretty devious back then too. To be honest, I didn't really care about Basara/Mylene/Gamlin.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I, for one, wouldn't peg Alto as indecisive. If anything, he worries too little about most of his decisions, but once he makes them, he goes through. Anyway, still waiting for the subs.

I loved it when he killed Ranka. Highlight of the series.

[BetoJR]

That was not much of a decision, bub. Just a resolution to do something that, to all intents and purposes, would be pretty rotten. Still don't see your point.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

That was not much of a decision, bub. Just a resolution to do something that, to all intents and purposes, would be pretty rotten. Still don't see your point.

Yes, and that was his love. What the hell does that even mean anyway?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

but I'd say that the idea that Sheryl has the lead is wrong. She and Alto may have spent more time together recently, but there is just as much indication that Ranka is his #1 as that Sheryl is. One salute is not enough, whatever its referents. In fact, I think the writing is rather poor, and that Alto is made to be inconsistent just so there can be a sequel.

Its highly doubtful that, if you supported Ranka from the beginning, you'd think otherwise even after the subs. A lot of subtle references to that however, is in place.

The salute for example (a subtle homage to Misa and Hikaru). Alto's emotion kissing Sheryl. The acceptance of Sheryl's earring. The camera's focus on the earring (if you are familiar with Japanese tradition, accepting an ornament from a woman pretty much = engagement). That, and Ranka admitted that she is behind at the end of the show.

Did I mention Ranka and Alto never kissed? Save for that one CPR session in ep 10? Although I can't call that a kiss.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

5. Much as I enjoyed this last episode, it helps drive the show's rating down, for me. A lot of shoot-em-up and too little sensible character development.

You know, there had been massive complaints about having too little shoot-em-up and too much focus on the triangle. If you ask me for my opinion, I'd think yeah, there are too few battle scenes.

It is a sensible complaint, because Macross at its core, is a space epic. Compared to the original, Macross 7 or even Zero, Mac F has comparatively fewer battle scenes than either of those shows. Although the reason is understandable, after all, Mac F boasts some of the most, if not the most expensive fighting scenes ever in current anime history. Only Zero and PLUS are barely comparable, and both are not TV series.

As for my overall opinion on Ranka: Seriously, have we not forgiven this girl enough?

- Tak

[Tabris]

Originally Posted by a1047

2. Minmay picture

Someone on 4chan said something like

Bilrer represents old Macross fans who wanted to know what happened to Minmay and Megaroad-01 and hoped Frontier would shed some light on to things. As things end up, we still don't know and our hopes have been dashed, again.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by golthin

that salute was so out of character( homage) for alto to salute anyone, more considering he didn't have any military training. Believe me, It takes quite a while to develop the reflex for a military salute, it is something that drill sergents drill to you constantly and punish you when you don't do it with push ups(I was ex military).

Which is why the homage to Hikaru/Misa was all the more blatant.

[FLCL]

Originally Posted by zalem

Which is why the homage to Hikaru/Misa was all the more blatant.

yeah im sorry ranka fans, that was an absolute direct homage and pretty much even if a conclusive ending wasnt shown, it was pretty much a given which way kawamori truly feels its going towards.