Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Yami Sonozaki]

Originally Posted by cheesie

I think what chuonokoe means by 'enjoying ranting', is that it's more of how they can get carried away with either repetitive complaints, or nitpicks over the most irrelevant details in the anime, and this can be very frustrating for some regularly checking the threads. While a thread flourishes with a good balance of good and bad criticisms, the key is to determine how much is too much before it falls to the trap of becoming recycle material in general.

Take the current exchange over Eva's chest as an example. Is it in poor taste to have it as an advertising shot? Perhaps, perhaps not, the sentiments vary according to different people. When George lunges and mourns on his dead mother's chest, her chest bounces in response to the impact. Is it possible? Why yes, as to quote a friend, boobs aren't meant to be static. Are the animated jiggly boobs a major distraction? Only if you let it so. Is it worth going on and on about it? Well, it's a very minor point, but for some reason, it escalates at a very quick pace based on the last few posts, not unlike other side topics that were heatedly brought up in the past. You have the option of skipping those posts, but when the same pattern keeps repeating over and over in each episode thread, it reaches a point when it becomes predictable and redundant, and risk being counter-productive in many ways.

Amongst these posts, there's a very noticeable tinge of either a) 'the anime isn't going according to the standards set by the novels' or b) 'the anime isn't adhering point-by-point with the image that I envisioned it to be'. By now, the anime has already established that it isn't swerving towards that direction, it's making choices the way it wants to, and, seeing how there's absolutely nothing people could do about it, it'll be nice to just focus on the anime as it actually is, rather than what it isn't. This isn't about whether people are entitled to post anything they want - this is in fact what people have been doing from the very beginning. There has been no 'brawls' that went out of hand so far, but more over the slightly overwhelming negativity that each threads have been slanted with, and some people have taken the initiative of calling it out. Aside from very few outcries, people here, as well as other places, have been quite level-headed with the way they conveyed their intentions regarding the high rate of nitpicking/complaints.

Edit : maximilianjenus, thanks for the information, that's always nice to know.

I agree.

Too much drama being made for such small things. About Eva's boobs part, you call it fanservice, I call it physics (as others pointed out). He was her son, what's so wrong about him jumping on her chest? >_> Hell, I would have complained if he did that and they wouldn't bounce. Ignoring the laws of physics? Now that would have been unacceptable.

Umineko is being bashed mostly because it's not 100% faitfull to the SN, or because it isn't as hardcore as Higurashi was. Depends on people.
I agree with discussing about the episode, since that's what the topic is for, but the negativity of some posts is annoying (to me at least), and may give a good series a bad impression for some people.
I know it's not perfect and it has some stiff parts, but over-dramatizing about it doesn't solve anything. Why can't it be criticized as if the SN never existed?

[Marion]

Personally I like the anime myself. If they would limit the fanservice (since this IS a murder mystery genre) and wouldn't lag on reactions for the characters then it would be a little better :P There aren't many cuts, but at the same time the characters are very statue-esque.

The entire thing with George is, as others pointed out, wondering if him jumping on Eva like that was really necessary, and right into her chest for that matter? Like many said, originally he was by her bed side and even in the manga he wasn't all on top of her. They could have easily done something like that but instead they made the choice to do a boob dive. And as others mentioned, if you saw the raw during the sponsor message before it began it had George going up and down on Eva's chest looping repeatedly. Now that's what I call fanservice.

[k//eternal]

Why would anyone in their right minds expect the anime to be 100% faithful to the game? I don't think ANYONE is complaining about that.

Regarding the fanservice, it doesn't matter whether it's Umineko or not, butt shots and boob dives should really stay out of murder mysteries. In fact, if this wasn't Umineko, I'd probably have stopped watching right there.

Yes, it's a detail, but it demonstrates a poor attitude toward the series (and even toward the viewers) by the producers. Same with the vastly toned-down personalities of the characters.

What's the big deal? It's because the details of Umineko are really what make it great: the "lots of people die on an island, whodunit" story has been done over and over. What makes it stand out are the depth of the mystery and the characters, as well as the tone of the story and the suspense behind it. This episode really shows a lack of respect for all of those things.

Now, I don't mean to bash the anime as a whole: I-3 was a VERY well-done episode, and I have hope that they'll be able to get back to that level of quality; additionally, there are several scenes that I am very much looking forward to seeing animated. However, the way that I-4 was done was just unfortunate, especially since I-1 and I-2 blazed through so much of the story that the "we don't have time" excuse doesn't apply anymore. I hope DEEN will shape up for future episodes and take this more seriously.

[lubczyk]

Anybody laughed out loud when Kanon got stabbed by that stake? I hit my head and said "Of course, the killer could throw the stakes." I think it's partially Kanon's stupidity. He went alone into a dark room with no light source of any kind and just stood there spouting his smart-ass mouth off. I was half expecting the killer to sneak up on him and shiv him in the back. Kanon should have just run with the butcher knife the hell out of there. He should have taken Gouda or some other guy to back him up as well. That just wasn't very smart. Never fight an unknown adversary in the dark.

[Demoned Away]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Anybody laughed out loud when Kanon got stabbed by that stake? I hit my head and said "Of course, the killer could throw the stakes." I think it's partially Kanon's stupidity. He went alone into a dark room with no light source of any kind and just stood there spouting his smart-ass mouth off. I was half expecting the killer to sneak up on him and shiv him in the back. Kanon should have just run with the butcher knife the hell out of there. He should have taken Gouda or some other guy to back him up as well. That just wasn't very smart. Never fight an unknown adversary in the dark.

I thought his death was such a buzzkill. Ya know? He gives that big speech and acts all high and mighty then... pop. Dead.

[Mikachiru]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Anybody laughed out loud when Kanon got stabbed by that stake? I hit my head and said "Of course, the killer could throw the stakes." I think it's partially Kanon's stupidity. He went alone into a dark room with no light source of any kind and just stood there spouting his smart-ass mouth off. I was half expecting the killer to sneak up on him and shiv him in the back. Kanon should have just run with the butcher knife the hell out of there. He should have taken Gouda or some other guy to back him up as well. That just wasn't very smart. Never fight an unknown adversary in the dark.

I didn't laugh, partially because I like Kanon and because I don't see what's so funny about someone getting stabbed in the chest.

I want to point out that Gohda is dead. Second the lights weren't working. And the only reason Kanon went into the boiler room was because he knew the killer could escape through the door on the opposite end of the room and didn't want him to escape.

[Kitsu]

I didn't laugh, partially because I like Kanon and because I don't see what's so funny about someone getting stabbed in the chest.

I like him as well but I could still make that idiotic "pwned" video ^^

But Mikachiru is right the murder of his sister was in that boiler room and coud have esaped. I would have done the same, I think

[MarthX]

So far I'd give the anime an out of 8 out of 10 for an adaption. It's good and it's getting more hate than it deserves from elitist visual novel players, but I do think it could a lot better.

We're getting game music and sound effects. Even though some are remixes and we don't always hear the full song, it's a lot better than nothing. With Higurashi, there was no game music whatsoever. I think more people should be thankful for that. Until it was revealed that anime would have game music, I was convinced that there wouldn't be since Higurashi didn't have any.

Nothing truly important is skipped. Someone who's only watching the anime can formulate theories about on the level as a visual novel player who's on that Episode. Of course the visual novel will have more details but that's to be expected. The anime would have a ridiculously slow pace if it explained every small detail. Then we'd have anime only watchers whining that the pace is too slow and nothing is happening.

The pacing is decent. It could be better but as said in my earlier point, nothing that important is skipped. They're covering most things. And let's be honest here, The visual novel's pace isn't perfect either. It has pacing issues with barely anything happening the first 1/3 of Ep1. It's easy to look back on it and realize the characterization was important but when you first went through it, you most likely found it a chore to go through. All that characterization can be spread across later episodes instead of dumping it at the beginning like the visual novel.

The artwork and animation aren't too bad. There's some bad frames here and there (what anime doesn't have bad frames?) but the artwork and animation level is nowhere near as bad as Higurashi's first season. It's about on Kai's level, which is satisfactory for me. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer it if it had beautiful visuals like other anime airing this season but it's nowhere near bad enough for me to really complain. It's also humorous how people who can deal with Ryukishi07's art is complaining about how something looks.

Complaining about stuff like the fanservice is just dumb. The visual novel had fanservice as well: Shannon's leg tattoo, close up on Shannon's breasts and later stuff that I won't say. Double standards going on. I can understand fanservice breaking the mood but people are over-exaggerating it. It's not like there's panty shots or people getting naked for no reason.

It seems visual novel players are going out of their way to find things to complain about. It gives the Umineko fanbase a bad name.

[k//eternal]

As Klash mentioned, the VN players aren't actually hating on it as much as you think, based on the ratings--they just have more to complain about. Calling people out on it only leads to snowballing, as well.

The current atmosphere is really as much the fault of people who criticize the criticism as those who criticize the anime itself.

[momobunny]

So nobody's allowed to be bothered by anything, point a few things out that they didn't like, or say anything too negative about the anime itself.

They're opinions people, you don't HAVE to read them.

[Deathkillz]

Well yea...if you look at the ratings and consider 6/10 to be the average...the vast majority is still above it. But lets not start this again. As much as it is tiring to hear people commenting on the faults, it is even worse to hear people ignoring them.

Originally Posted by Demoned Away

I thought his death was such a buzzkill. Ya know? He gives that big speech and acts all high and mighty then... pop. Dead.

Naturally the mood that the original gave off was more tragic and angsty than this comical act in comparison...but it can't be helped
Didn't help at all either that Kanon sounds like a girl, bleh..not GAR enough.

[Kitsu]

Naturally the mood that the original gave off was more tragic and angsty than this comical act in comparison..

I think that's because they cut out the scene in which he collapses struggling on the ground and then pulls out the stake himself as a last act of rebellion against the witch

Didn't help at all either that Kanon sounds like a girl

Tell me about it

[Mercurius]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

Yes, it's a detail, but it demonstrates a poor attitude toward the series (and even toward the viewers) by the producers. Same with the vastly toned-down personalities of the characters.

What's the big deal? It's because the details of Umineko are really what make it great: the "lots of people die on an island, whodunit" story has been done over and over. What makes it stand out are the depth of the mystery and the characters, as well as the tone of the story and the suspense behind it. This episode really shows a lack of respect for all of those things.

My thoughts exactly. And for the most part, save for a few major omissions (*cough*Battler'sfamily*cough), the anime is following the details and "rules" of the VN fairly well. However, simply following the chronological order of the scenes from the VN does not automatically make a great anime. Just like how simply reciting the lines to a play doesn't make for great theatre. There needs to be some TLC into the spirit and intent of the VN in order for those chronological events to start having the impact on the viewer that they did in the VN. And if this is considered over-complaining, then so be it. I love Uminkeo and can't stand to see such a great story be mishandled by a bunch of hack animators.

I do hope that DEEN realizes the importance of actually taking the time to buildup some of the plot and characters by Episode 2, where it really starts to matter.

Enough ranting. My notes for 1-4:

Spoiler for Episode 1-4: blunder:

-Seeing Kumasawa scared at every little thing is starting to make sense now that I can see she really is just a little old lady. One thing the anime did a good job with.
-Kanon's death was the most confusing scene for me from Episode 1 of the VN. And it's still the most confusing scene so far in this arc.
-Not really sure how everyone, except for Nanjo, can just continue discussing the murders while Jessica was having an asthma attack.
-Kinzo's room is tiled like a chessboard.
-Seems odd that Natsuhi payed so much attention to the table (wth Mackerel, no less), almost as if she was expecting something to show up.

The only other thing bugging me is the placement of the large version of Beatrice's portrait (not the one in Kinzo's room). It seems to be shown next to the stairs in this episode, but in 1-1 and 1-2, it seemed to be by itself at the end of a hallway. More quality animation from DEEN. They can't even copy paste correctly.

[Baru]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

The only other thing bugging me is the placement of the large version of Beatrice's portrait (not the one in Kinzo's room). It seems to be shown next to the stairs in this episode, but in 1-1 and 1-2, it seemed to be by itself at the end of a hallway. More quality animation from DEEN. They can't even copy paste correctly.

The portrait was always near the stairs, from what I remember...

[gtr06]

The picture of Beatrice in Kinzo's room is suppose to instill fears that you can not escape her eyes! They should have focused on it to make the atmosphere darker!

[Karlson]

Originally Posted by MarthX

Nothing truly important is skipped. Someone who's only watching the anime can formulate theories about on the level as a visual novel player who's on that Episode. Of course the visual novel will have more details but that's to be expected. The anime would have a ridiculously slow pace if it explained every small detail. Then we'd have anime only watchers whining that the pace is too slow and nothing is happening.

To side with the criticizers, as an anime-only watcher myself it would take alot for me to drop a series because of pacing being too slow, but I know that for a fact that varies from individual to individual so what you say is true. Some will complain about slow pacing in a series even when it's a very faithful adaptation from it's source material, it's happened many times before. No matter how a series gets handled you can't make everyone happy as there will always be someone out there that won't like it for any given reason, that's just the way it is unfortunately

[y0shi]

Could someone enlighten me on that mackerel joke? What can be so funny that it gets that much attention? Or is it something story relevant? Do they all have hallucinations frm food poisoning? Please only answer this if it isnt a spoiler or anything relevant xD


e:/ mackerel not makelele, thats a soccer player xD

[unconfirmed]

Originally Posted by y0shi

Could someone enlighten me on that mackerel joke? What can be so funny that it gets that much attention? Or is it something story relevant? Do they all have hallucinations frm food poisoning? Please only answer this if it isnt a spoiler or anything relevant xD


e:/ mackerel not makelele, thats a soccer player xD

It's more fanservice than joke. In the VN Kumasawa frequently makes mackerel jokes and they decided to finally allude to that in the anime in this episode....in the form of canned mackerels. Too bad it was such an awkward attempt since the scene was really serious and mackerels just had no place in it.

[Akuryou]

Kumasawa makes constant jokes about mackerel throught the novels. That's all really.

[Deathkillz]

It's a joke that comes from Kumasawa that everything she cooks has mackerel in it due to fish being healthy for the body and whatnot. She would also tend to inject the mackerel gag into pretty much whatever she says when she wants to lighten the mood (mackerel cake anyone?) and this became a somewhat renowned gag from the game. The mackerel tin in the episode is supposed to tickle the bones of those who know the gag well (ie VN readers) and it seems like it has pretty much flown over the heads of first time viewers because it wasn't mentioned often enough in the anime to draw any connections.

edit: tche...fast typing yaros >.>