The Avengers (May 2012)

[Yui Is My Wife]

For a want of a term, this film was Marvelous, even if (naturally) it didn't have time to focus on individual heroes to develop them (that's what their introduction movies were for).

Though Iron Man, once more-so than ever, is an unlikable jackass.

Spoiler for Tony Stark's Heartless Behavior:

Alright Stark, we get it. You are the smart and cynical voice of reason, thank you for rubbing that in our face every five damn seconds with smile and a cocktail.

But kindly show some basic respect and grief when Agent Coulson gave his life fighting Loki to buy time for you rather than coldly mocking him as an idiot for his bravery.

Pepper was wrong. You DON'T have a heart after all.

Other than that, Thank You Joss Whedon for filling this film with well-timed, intelligent and NON groan-worthy humor (Wizard of Oz fans watch out for a screamingly funny reference!!).

And best of all, this film does NOT operate the camera like it is mounted on a jackhammer, and keeps each shot LONGER THAN 1 SECOND, refusing to pander to the ADD crowd for the sake of being "edgy and realistic." You will NOT feel like vomiting every five seconds like you will with every damned Ridley Scott piece of crap since Gladiator. Two and a half hours went by, you FELT like you watched a 3D movie WITHOUT the nausea that accompanies it. Not ONE spastic MTV style shake happened throughout the ENTIRE film.

Well worth the time!!

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

The usual spoilers...

Spoiler for Film:

Let's go through the cast. Fury is not a bad man, but he clearly can't be trusted. He will lie and cheat to get things done, and this applies to both his superiors and his subordinates. And he never hesitates; he was very much wiling to blow up one of his own planes with an RPG just to save the city from being nuked, and there was not a single sign of regret that he made a tough decision at all.

Hawk got made relevant by being converted to Loki's side in the first ten minutes. Clever, as that means he gets to show off his abilities for the majority of the film without being upstaged by the big star heroes. Nice little background on how he got a battle history with Black Widow.

Black Widow gets to show off her real skill as a spy. She acts; her greatest moment isn't when she beat up a bunch of aliens with their own weapons, but when she managed to TRICK LOKI. She is very good at using her gender to her advantage, to make people underestimate her. The trailer really made her look weak, with those pistols of hers. But the truth is 80% of the time she fights with enemy's staff weapons. The pistol is just for show.

Stark is just being Stark. A flawed genius, and still is. His ultimate weapon from IM2, the super laser, is bulked up in quantity in this film. He also borderline performed Itano Circus with his micro missiles. The Japanese are going to love how he got his MK-VII armour on; the new suit transforms into a small drone plane for transport, so it has the portability of the suitcase without IM2's weaknesses. And a mid-air suiting sequence is always a winner.

The Hulk is cool, and possibly the most powerful thing around. They probably couldn't have won without Banner. Tony is actually inviting Banner to work in his lab, which would be a most potent combination. Intellectually Banner was the only person who is Stark's equal in science. They actually seem to hit it off really well.

Cap? Interesting he actually asked if the flag motive is still a good idea in the modern world. But he was told that the world NEED the old fashioned America. The America that Americans seem to have lost. Oh, and his shield took a direct hit of Thors hammer.

Thor is still as powerful as ever, though he couldn't actually defeat the Hulk. He also still doesn't hate Loki, and want him to come home and be redeemed. It was not possible, but he tried.

Loki is in an interesting position. He genuinely think humanity is better off under his rule. Humans are already killing each other, he reasoned. So why not enslave them, as then the wars will end and there would actually be less dead humans? The aliens gave him an army so they could get the Tesseract, and in return he gets to keep Earth.

One of the most emotionally powerful scenes in this film, is of an old man who stood up and refused to kneel to him.
"I will not kneel to men like you!" Said the frail old German man.
"There are no men like me." Replied Loki.
"There are ALWAYS men like you." He rebutted.

Oh, and the ending surprise?

Spoiler for future film...:

Thanos.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Though Iron Man, once more-so than ever, is an unlikable jackass.

Spoiler for Tony Stark's Heartless Behavior:

Alright Stark, we get it. You are the smart and cynical voice of reason, thank you for rubbing that in our face every five damn seconds with smile and a cocktail.

But kindly show some basic respect and grief when Agent Coulson gave his life fighting Loki to buy time for you rather than coldly mocking him as an idiot for his bravery.

Pepper was wrong. You DON'T have a heart after all.

Spoiler for Stark:

Given the last two movies, you would've known by now that Stark is a man not very disposed to showing his emotions in the usual manner. He pretty much acts like a tsundere does - hiding his caring under much snark and deadpan indifference.

The one line that shows he did go all out just because of Coulson was when he blasted Loki with the words "And you know who else you pissed off? Phil." Also, I thought his flummoxed expression when he departed after Fury presented the Captain America cards clearly showed it hit him hard.

Spoiler for Goddamnit though:

I really did not expect Coulson's death at all. Many "oh fuck"'s were had when he got stabbed. And they underplayed his death so well that it actually hit a lot harder than if they had tried to pass it off as some epic death. It wasn't a moment artificially made dramatic by sad violin overtures or slow motion, it was just Coulson doing his best till the end. Though he got the last laugh at least.

"So that's how it works."

This movie is first and foremost massive fanservice of all kinds, but it was very well-done fanservice. It was MARVELous fanservice.

Also, most of the scenes involving Banner and the Hulk were GOLD, especially in the New York battle.

[MeoTwister5]

The lines at the local cinemas are horrible. Now I'm forced to watch at an SM, and I hate their theaters.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The lines at the local cinemas are horrible. Now I'm forced to watch at an SM, and I hate their theaters.

Yeah, SM Cinemas aren't the best, but they're passable at least. Pre-ordered our tickets a day in advance so we didn't have to go through the lines

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The lines at the local cinemas are horrible. Now I'm forced to watch at an SM, and I hate their theaters.

Took me 20 minutes to get a ticket myself. And it's a minor cinema too. All in all, a good movie. You do need to have seen the other films though as they didn't waste time explaining too much. But that's what we wanted.

There is a bonus scene when it finally airs in America. So guess I will Youtube that missing scene when it comes out.

[Shinji103]

After seeing how crowded the theaters were for Thor. (I coyuld only find one seat in the theater, and this was at least a week after it first came out), I fully figured that I'd have to plan on buying tickets in advance. I'm glad my expectations were met.

This is gonna be GOLD.

[risingstar3110]

Frankly it was pretty good. I means no serious plot twitst, and the flow was pretty much the same idea with (most remarkably) Transformer for the final fight in the city. But the fight was really well directed, rather than just forming two line and shooting beams against each other like that Michael Bay's movie

The humour really hit me at the right spot also

[MeoTwister5]

Saw it last night, but I was so exhausted from the awesome I went straight to bed.

Also that scene in the credits... well let's say I doubt they can do that with one movie.

[Bri]

Saw it yesterday in an almost empty, large cinema, so I was able to get the best seats. Good superhero flick, not overly serious nor too campy. The way Avengers should be.

Spoiler for review:

Group dynamics is always tough, though the movie pulled it off pretty well. Only Cap/Chris Evans got drowned out, even though the movie forced itself to put his character in the spotlight. The Black Widow part worked better, simply because they kept her out of traffic and gave her mostly solo/duo scenes.

Downey jr. stole the show, the writers gave him the best lines, and some great interaction with both Pepper and Loki. Hulk was brilliant with a physical, Tom and Jerry style of humor. With the Asgardians taking the brunt of his jokes.

Spoiler for Out of character for a moment::

the German square scene. The attempt at a serious note in a movie filled with popcorn violence came out of nowhere and was cringe worthy. Equating a cartoon villain to actual horrors of history is just not done imo.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Bri

Spoiler for Out of character for a moment::

the German square scene. The attempt at a serious note in a movie filled with popcorn violence came out of nowhere and was cringe worthy. Equating a cartoon villain to actual horrors of history is just not done imo.

Spoiler for Reply:

And how common was Hitler ever portrayed as anything other than a cartoon villain? Hitler was a man, not a thing. But he was certainly treated like a caricature as Rogers pointed out. After all, he punched a fake Hitler countless times. If Hitler was mocked when he was actually alive and people were trying to kill him, what made you think comparing him to a comic villain NOW would be any different?

Hitler is NOT special. There were many like him, and there will be many more of him. That was the whole point; "There are always men like you" is not trying to trivialise Hitler. It is to point out that Hitler is just one of many that society had to fight against, possibly for all of eternity.

Cut off one head, and two will take its place indeed. But still fight we must. Nothing ended when Hitler died; everything just continued. There are always men like him.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Spoiler for Reply:

And how common was Hitler ever portrayed as anything other than a cartoon villain? Hitler was a man, not a thing. But he was certainly treated like a caricature as Rogers pointed out. After all, he punched a fake Hitler countless times. If Hitler was mocked when he was actually alive and people were trying to kill him, what made you think comparing him to a comic villain NOW would be any different?

Hitler is NOT special. There were many like him, and there will be many more of him. That was the whole point; "There are always men like you" is not trying to trivialise Hitler. It is to point out that Hitler is just one of many that society had to fight against, possibly for all of eternity.

Cut off one head, and two will take its place indeed. But still fight we must. Nothing ended when Hitler died; everything just continued. There are always men like him.

Spoiler for Reply:

It's not that the message is wrong. It's just recited like a cheap slogan, ultimately devaluing it. Tying to squeeze in a note of seriousness in a popcorn movie, doesn't make it seem deeper, just moralistic.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Bri

Spoiler for Reply:

It's not that the message is wrong. It's just recited like a cheap slogan, ultimately devaluing it. Tying to squeeze in a note of seriousness in a popcorn movie, doesn't make it seem deeper, just moralistic.

Steve Rogers doesn't care if you think he doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. He will keep doing what he does regardless. He has a message, and the writers will spread that message even if you think it's corny. The same reason he was given the stars and stripes to wear.

Spoiler for explanation:

The truth is, Loki has an argument for why he SHOULD rule Earth. Thor is not clever enough to rebuttal him, so it was up to Steve Rogers and an elderly German to do it in Thor's place. Loki claim that humans are stupid and kill each other every day. And that if Loki was in charge and take away nations all together, there will be no more war and humans will be spared more bloodshed that we brought upon ourselves. This is the classic excuse for Tyrants. One that any number of people bent on world domination would argue for. The old man is there to tell Loki that he is full of shit, that it is precisely men like him that humanity suffer from constant war. That Loki is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Steve Rogers doesn't care if you think he doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. He will keep doing what he does regardless. He has a message, and the writers will spread that message even if you think it's corny. The same reason he was given the stars and stripes to wear.

Spoiler for explanation:

The truth is, Loki has an argument for why he SHOULD rule Earth. Thor is not clever enough to rebuttal him, so it was up to Steve Rogers and an elderly German to do it in Thor's place. Loki claim that humans are stupid and kill each other every day. And that if Loki was in charge and take away nations all together, there will be no more war and humans will be spared more bloodshed that we brought upon ourselves. This is the classic excuse for Tyrants. One that any number of people bent on world domination would argue for. The old man is there to tell Loki that he is full of shit, that it is precisely men like him that humanity suffer from constant war. That Loki is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

You're not getting my point. Steve Rogers isn't the problem. He is used as a reference to a simpler time where the (American) audience has reason to be proud of. But going all moralistic on a comic villain in a light hearted movie and referring to past real atrocities just makes it look silly. Save it for when Cap/Avengers are to be put up against representations of real world villans.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Bri

You're not getting my point. Steve Rogers isn't the problem. He is used as a reference to a simpler time where the (American) audience has reason to be proud of. But going all moralistic on a comic villain in a light hearted movie and referring to past real atrocities just makes it look silly. Save it for when Cap/Avengers are to be put up against representations of real world villans.

"Silly"?

You think Loki is "Silly"?

You think it is somehow unusual that someone decide that the world is better under his rule, because they are too stupid to rule themselves, is comical? Unrealistic?

There is a reason Steve Rogers never fought Hitler in the film. Steve Roggers is not an actual American Soldier. Steve is a representation of American spirit. That's why he fought Red Skull, a representation of Fascism. And that's why Loki is a representation of all would-be Tyrants. They are ALL Symbols. All of them, even Pepper, or Culson.

Loki IS a "Representation of real world villains". They are all Representation of real people, or ideas of people, pieces of people, thoughts of people, or emotions of people. That's why they are even in this movie. That's why the characters even survived the decades in the comics.

Loki is real. There are many like him. There are many who ARE him.

And Steve Rogers doesn't represent simpler times. Steve Rogers represent a time when Americans actually believed their own rhetoric and tried to live up to it. It's not that America doesn't have anything to be proud of in the modern day; it's that America doesn't bother trying to do anything noble any-more. America is still capable of great things; it just doesn't WANT to.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Spoiler for spoiler tags for space:

"Silly"?

You think Loki is "Silly"?

You think it is somehow unusual that someone decide that the world is better under his rule, because they are too stupid to rule themselves, is comical? Unrealistic?

There is a reason Steve Rogers never fought Hitler in the film. Steve Roggers is not an actual American Soldier. Steve is a representation of American spirit. That's why he fought Red Skull, a representation of Fascism. And that's why Loki is a representation of all would-be Tyrants. They are ALL Symbols. All of them, even Pepper, or Culson.

Loki IS a "Representation of real world villains". They are all Representation of real people, or ideas of people, pieces of people, thoughts of people, or emotions of people. That's why they are even in this movie. That's why the characters even survived the decades in the comics.

Loki is real. There are many like him. There are many who ARE him.

And Steve Rogers doesn't represent simpler times. Steve Rogers represent a time when Americans actually believed their own rhetoric and tried to live up to it. It's not that America doesn't have anything to be proud of in the modern day; it's that America doesn't bother trying to do anything noble any-more. America is still capable of great things; it just doesn't WANT to

.

Okay...pass. What is a pretentious interruption to some disposable entertainment for me, apparently holds a deeper meaning for you. We're not on the same wavelength here so I'll leave it at this.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Who else felt it was a pretty shitty of Nick Fury to

Spoiler:

Sensationalize Clouson's death by dipping his cards into his blood just to enrage/manipulate the Avengers into action.

Basic disrespect for the dead aside, you have just turned a friend and colleague who respected you into a mere tool.

Bravo, Fury. Bra-F#<>ing-vo.

[PzIVf3]

HULK BASH, HULK SMASH. YEAH

The only thing doubts me is the absence of military forces doing nothing.

[HasuMasu]

Okay so I just watched this today, that ending...oh good Lord...

The new guy playing Hulk wasn't bad at all.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Actually he turned him into a martyr. Small difference.

Was a freakin awesome movie. I do slightly agree with what Vallen was getting at with the scene in germany, but I'm willing to let it slide. Once scene in an otherwise awesome movie is OK. Besides other then the allusion to Hitler it was a pretty cool scene. Although I was expecting Loki to play the 'god' card rather then 'king'.