2011-04-25, 13:31 | Link #162 |
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Hey guys, I know where Madoka went after the ending of the series. She recreated the world into the Suzumiya Haruhi setting with her as the heroine.
As for all the people who disappear, they go to Angel Beats where if they do things right, they disappear again and are reborn as people once more. Everything comes together now. |
2011-04-25, 13:38 | Link #163 | |
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That's actually pretty clever.
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2011-04-26, 00:30 | Link #164 |
Madoka x Homura
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West side of Singapore
Age: 32
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ah yes this is it! thank you very much
as for the chronological events of episode 12, it didn't actually matter too much from my perspective, since QB already mentioned that madoka's new laws are reorganizing time and space itself.
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2011-04-26, 01:01 | Link #165 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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1. Homura remembers. Homura was supposed to forget, but she was protected by her original wish. Because she existed outside of time, and her wish was specifically for Madoka, she could remember her. 2. The ribbon. This is physical evidence that Madoka existed, but it shouldn't exist. It came from a timeline that doesn't exist anymore, and should have disappeared. 3. Tatsuya draws a picture of Madoka on the ground and knows her name. How? This is an impossibility that his imagination is that good and that he happens to be the brother of someone who "never existed". Junko writes it off as a stage, an imaginary friend, but the name Madoka and the ribbons elicit emotions that shouldn't exist. She speaks of "if I had a daughter", and lets slip that she thought she saw Tatsuya playing with Madoka once (this might be my crappy subs though, gg's version). 4. Madoka speaks directly to Homura in the end. This is either Homura's imagination, or Madoka doing something impossible. 5. Consider that Madoka had to directly intervene with every girl to remove the despair and prevent each from turning into a Witch. This means that at least one "version" of her has to exist in the universe, even if she's undetectable by the Incubators (and as we've seen they are advanced but not omnipotent...so it makes sense they couldn't detect her). In summation, while I think from a time/space perspective her wish was fulfilled instantly (since existing in all times/places means time has no meaning), I don't think she is dead or entirely removed from her former existence either. I think the true miracle is that with her wish complete, she will be reinserted back into the universe as a human. She'll have two existences. One, the "goddess" who prevents Witches from existing for all time, and the human Madoka who exists separate from that. To put it another way, her parting from Homura felt less like a goodbye, and more like a "I'll see you soon".
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2011-04-26, 01:09 | Link #166 | |
Madoka x Homura
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West side of Singapore
Age: 32
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The ribbon-giving is a Japanese symbolism for the red string of fate which binds Homura and Madoka together... as best friends perhaps. So maybe its symbolism didn't disappear when the universe was being organized, hence also providing another way why Homura might remember Madoka, apart from her specific wish to protect Madoka. Not like Madoka could really forsee all these happening from the start too..? On a sidenote, the OST and the scenes really played with my emotions thoroughly. Good job to the composer as well >.< There's gonna be a light novel adaptation, wonder what's possibly next, a 200min movie?
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2011-04-26, 02:13 | Link #167 |
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You are sure giving too much thought in a story about time-travel and magic. It is just mambo jumbo to me. But I can play this game too.
Nobody seems to notice how Madoka had the power to go throughout time and save every single magical girl there ever was, but not enough to just have her parents not use protection. ... or maybe she was too shy to jump in the bedroom and yell IT FEELS BETTER WITHOUT ONE ! |
2011-04-26, 02:22 | Link #168 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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It's clear you don't like the show very much. I suggest you stop posting here before you say something stupider than usual.
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2011-04-26, 03:32 | Link #169 | |
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On that note, I'm a bit confused about something. Madoka says that she'll end all witches by her own hand, past, present, and future. I thought there wouldn't be any witches in the future, though, since Madoka completely changed the system? Mami said that Madoka would be locked in an endless war for all eternity, but shouldn't the number of witches be finite since they're all confined to the past? Madoka might have a lot of work ahead of her in trying to erase about four million years' worth of witches, but it doesn't sound like a neverending job. |
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2011-04-26, 04:13 | Link #170 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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On the subject of time loops, they are usually plot devices:
Bottomline is that the time loop is NOT the theme of Madoka Magica. To state otherwise is foolish. |
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2011-04-26, 04:32 | Link #171 | |
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Age: 38
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2011-04-26, 07:17 | Link #172 | ||
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Time 0: Madoka becomes a MS and makes her wish. The universe begins restructuring as the timeline is altered by the wish. Time 0-X: Madoka returns to the past to absorb the SG's accumulated darkness of each mahou shojo. Speculatively, i would say she also absorbs the soul of the mahou shojo. Circumstancial evidence is the animation of the soul gem dissolving fully for the green MS Time 0+Y: Madoka completes the collection of all taint and returns to earth, shattering near the planet. Madoka from unknown time/space appears and destroys her own witch self. It is very likely from Kyubei's willingness to move on once he gets his quota that there are similar races throughout the universe that will generate the same emotional energy. It is likely that they will also create the same side effect (witches). Hence Y is unknown but large. Time +Y+1: A paradox occurs. Due to the paradox, the universe once again restructures. Madoka is removed from the timestream but talks to Homura before that. However as Madoka's wish must be fufilled but Madoka does not exist due to the paradox, what remains is the effect of her wish. The shows up as the disintergration of the soul gem and vanishing of the MS. It is highly likely that the dying MS do not physically see Madoka any more (she does not exist) unlike during Time-X but as Madoka references "meeting everyone" i would say that the MS do still meet her after death. Due to the existance of soul gems, the "soul", unlike the real world, is a confirmed force/thing so this could be possible. Alternatively the "meeting everyone" may mean her omniscience, which is also supported by the comments she makes of knowing the past and future. Time +Y+1+Z: Either concurrently or after leaving Homura (time is wonky under such circumstances), Madoka meets Sayaka. There are many possibilities why Sayaka does not change her fate. The one i'm partial to is that Madoka may not be able to change it. Her wish only grants her the power to give the MS a release from the despair of changing into a witch, not relieve them of the responsibility of their choices else she would have saved the rest, including the bear girl (cute bear ears) However, as Homura demostrated with her driverless oil tanker, magical energy can be used to do more than just combat. So i would not rule out that this Madoka had mastered the ability to use the magical energy to do more than just what her wish says. At this point Madoka says something to the point of "returning everything to nothing", it might mean that she has control over the process but it can also mean it was an effect of what she did (the paradox), not one she has control of. Ok thats the scene supported stuff. Next is total speculation Tetsuya's ability to see Madoka may be due to the innocence of the child and his link to Madoka. IIRC, children supposedly have a myth of being more capable of seeing "ghosts" due to said innocence and a tendency to not reject things as crazy off hand. Perhaps that is what the writer was referencing. Homura being able to remember Madoka is already hinted at when Madoka states that she might remember her because she could follow Madoka to that place. Speculatively it might be i) "love is all powerful" theme that allows Homura to break the rules ii) her wish linked them together initially, creating a chain of sorts iii) Their original fate was already interwined, so it was merely a continuation of their fate The final witch wings of Homura might be i) She's turning into a witch and Madoka is going to take her soul gem. Following the logic of episode 12, this seems the most likely ii) She mastered more of her power turning her wings into a weapon itself iii) It was the true scene. The white wings were fake. Witch Madoka was the one talking to her. Regarding iii), i would say its not a good ending but it is not impossible. From what the offical website said, Witch Madoka exists to absorb everyone into her dimension and creates a paradise for them. Witch Madoka enveloped the earth at one point during Madoka's initial soul gem shattering. When Madoka shot her witch self, everything went white (loved the effect by the way). At this point of time, there are 2 possibilities. Madoka won or Witch Madoka won. The continuation seems to show that Madoka won. However because of witch Madoka's stated ability, it may all be an illusion. Of course taking this route would mean that everything was fake from that point on. Pretty bad story telling IMO but for those who want a "everyone is fucked" ending, this possibility exists. |
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2011-04-26, 07:25 | Link #173 | |||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2011-04-26 at 07:56. |
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2011-04-26, 07:48 | Link #174 |
Madoka x Homura
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West side of Singapore
Age: 32
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the scriptwriter (gen uro-something) and shaft sure likes to get people talking and discussing with the many interpretations of madoka thanks to all the online material i've managed to found out more abt the show too :X
about said "meeting you again", i prefer Cosmic Eagle's interpretation that after Homura gets exhausted and finally dies, Madoka would come and collect her so they'll be on the same plane of existence together again. sounds more reasonable considering how the last homura scene was presented in a grim background. on a sidenote again, more music in case you're crazy about the OST like me http://www.youtube.com/embed/BRH6PrmwZjs Homura and her 6 fingers: ep 12, shaft error?
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Last edited by LyricalNanoha; 2011-04-26 at 08:23. |
2011-04-26, 08:34 | Link #175 | ||||||||||||||
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Actually the chances of her coming back depend on how the concept of future is dealt with in terms of her wish. If she deletes all future wishes at once, than her wish IS complete, and she remains immaterial due to to its side effects. It would take a real miracle to bail her out of there (or maybe... someone's wish?). If future happens the way it happens, just coming and becoming present, then Madoka must erase witches slowly, one magical girl at a time. If someday Incubators stop contracting humans, then MAYBE she'll be free. Implying she'll have dealt with all the despair she absorbs from the soul gems (otherwise, there will always be at least ONE witch for her to erase). Quote:
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Ah, with all these talks, my unintentional hype for Oriko Magica keeps rising. I'm really worried. Btw, once I was visited by a rather grim plot bunny who whispered to me: "what if Madoka dies and Homura is left to live in a world without her?" (yep, it was BEFORE April 21) "what if Homura decides to screw it all and starts searching for a potential magical girl she could coax/bully/force into wishing for Madoka's return?" That time, I waved the idea off as rather disturbing, and it doesn't become any less disturbing now, but... Quote:
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I think I'll rewatch the scene and try to catch a glimpse at Homura's hand where her Soul Gem is normally placed... Quote:
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Now, Madoka, wait till Kyouko meets her heroic end and arrange a separate room for these two in your domain... Quote:
Btw, was it fixed on Nico Nico later? Maybe not, since they didn't quite have a week this time, but still... Last edited by Snork; 2011-04-26 at 08:53. |
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2011-04-26, 11:10 | Link #176 | |||
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
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the PMs we saw madoka "rescued" were all in the verge of witchhood. the first one (green haired) reverted to civilian clothes as her SG darkens. it strongly indicates that she exhausted her power. madoka appears, cleanses it, and the PM vanished. the next ones are still in PM outfit but seemed to be too depressed (in a hopeless and overwhelming situation) and paralyzed. still, madoka appears and cleanses their SG. the PMs were surprised and saw madoka as they look directly into her clearing their darkening SGs. but the battle in the desert, homura seems far from losing energy. she has her outfit still, walking straight with confidence, seems to be full of hope and has her full faculties. compare this to the previous PMs madoka "rescued" earlier. of course we did not see homura's SG, her eyes, and her face. but her actions (at least to me) seemed too far from turning into a witch. how about the wings motif and color? i read somewhere that black with tints of purple may be more appropriate for homura since it fits perfectly her color scheme. even if those are real witch wings, there is no previous recorded instance that an active still PM could display or tap witch powers already and use that in combat. Quote:
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in the desert battle, the dark wings were used to lift her up. as she soars and glides above, we see bursts from the ground directly below her. it was probably use to attack the white monks. the explosions that covered the screen are very similar in motif of homu's wings. so probably the white and dark wings have different purposes. both are possessed by homu at the start of the new world. or it is also possible that the darker is an upgrade of the white. although, witch madoka might be talking to her, i consider this unlikely. witch madoka was shot and howled as she vanished. goddess madoka said that she won't even despair. so i guess the witch madoka was probably defeated and no way present in homu's battle. besides goddess madoka was not even attacked or shot at. additionally, as snork too said, madoka appears right before a pm turns into a witch. so even before homu could tap "witch" wings/power madoka should be there. but what homu got, was just madoka's voice, and the words were "ganbatte!" madoka seems to uplift more homu's feeling and confidence where she accepted delightfully with a smile. madoka did not appear and no cleansing happened. so i doubt witch madoka was in total control of everything. regarding the desert battle specifics, i can't give any details. no one probably knows what really happened. but i would assume that the final outcome (of the battle or much later still in the future) will be that homu and mado were reunited again. the soul gem and ribbon symbolize union of the two. i don't consider this as homu's death, but probably her ascension to heaven/nirvana/madoka... Last edited by kaigan; 2011-04-26 at 12:17. Reason: typos |
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2011-04-26, 12:46 | Link #177 | |
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2011-04-26, 12:50 | Link #178 | |
Madoka x Homura
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West side of Singapore
Age: 32
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2011-04-26, 13:16 | Link #179 | |
Uncaring
Join Date: Sep 2010
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If the lifespan of 1 universe before heat death is X, the result would be Kyubei now has (2X - Age of universe) time left. entropy is not stopped but delayed. Then we have to note that the value of X is actually small (!) enough to trouble the incubators to set up their farm. A value of 2X is not going to be massively helpful. This implies that they would continue to find new energy sources to delay heat death (ignoring some duhhhh! points on actual science) The only way they had solved the heat death problem would be to change the universal law of entropy like Madoka did for mahou shoujos |
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2011-04-26, 13:17 | Link #180 | ||
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