(L+CR) Kiseijuu: Sei no Kakuritsu (Parasyte - the maxim)

[Wandering Soul]

It's ironic that the Serial killer had to tell the squad not to gun down that couple. Although there really doesn't seem to be anyone to fulfill Reiko's request and this is the way things just are.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Agreed this episode started to remind me of Shiki.

For not having Izumi in 95% of it, this was a pretty intense episode. I found it interesting that not all the parasites had that dead pan look on their faces so it really was kind of hard espc at the bus to know who has one and who wasnt. Even the guy on the 2nd floor but crazy commander dude was right...he wasnt on the first floor so shoot to kill.

Really wondering 1) what the Mayor has planned 2) how theyre gonna take out Gotou.

Kiseijuu has been reminding me of Shiki for a long time. Mainly in the sense that it plays as a tragedy rather than a thriller, where you know great sadness and devastation is coming, and the drama comes from watching it play out.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well that's not exactly accurate. There was the paracite that combined with a dog and Migi's existence itself shows they don't have to take over a body to survive. But that's not the most powerful argument since by the time they can think rationally they've already killed someone.

But past that point the survival thing is gone. They have violent instincts (which comes from who knows where since their very origins are still unknown), but they can control them if motivated. They need to kill people as much as zombies do. In the case that they don't really, but can't help themselves.

I think Reiko's request was pretty ridiculous. This has long past any sort of peaceful result. With very rare exceptions, all of the parasites have a body count to their name that can reach a high number. I'm sure Reiko would love things to reach a different conclusion, but I don't see it.

Yes, I basically ignored their larval stage because, as far as we know, they have no self-awareness until they've infested a host.

One thing I'm not clear on is whether the parasites can survive on regular food alone. I thought it was mentioned that someone had attempted to do so (Reiko?) in a past episode, but I can't remember. If they can survive without killing humans, that does change things, but not much. That would only be relevant if all parasites were aware it was possible to survive in this manner.

Even still, it's a tricky issue because all living things are, to varying extents, slaves to their instincts, humans included. Some people are good at controlling their instincts, some aren't. In human society, we often look favorably upon those capable of controlling their instincts, but, if we are to examine "self control" and "will power" objectively, they're basically a roll of the genealogical and environmental dice. It's a trait not everyone possesses, regardless of whether or not they'd like to. Reiko is clearly a parasite with a strong ability to control and suppress her instincts, but we do not know how common that is for parasites.

All that said, yes, Reiko's request is probably impossible to fulfill, but one can somewhat understand the point she was trying to make. She was basically saying the parasites didn't choose to be the way they are.

[AvianWing]

Do sniper rifles not exist? I can't remember the last time a real life hostage situation without a number of snipers surrounding the building. It gives more options for maneuvering. As Shinichi demonstrated with the rock throw, long range attack can be quite effective.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

One thing I'm not clear on is whether the parasites can survive on regular food alone. I thought it was mentioned that someone had attempted to do so (Reiko?) in a past episode, but I can't remember. If they can survive without killing humans, that does change things, but not much. That would only be relevant if all parasites were aware it was possible to survive in this manner.

Tamura Reiko did say that she could survive without eating humans and logically nothing should prevent any parasites from surviving simply eating regular food. In the end in every case they are surviving through their human hosts' blood nutrients, and it doesn't really matter which "food" those nutrients came from as Migi proved.

Since Shiki has been mentioned before, I could make another comparison here, because even Shiki could have very well survived without sucking every ounce of blood from their victims. They could rotate, sucking a bit of blood each time from a large sample of persons and only restarting from the first after she completely recovered. But no they simply couldn't help it, that was their nature.


The main difference I see here is that in Kiseiju we aren't really made to feel much compassion for the parasites. Even in this extreme situation they still show very little emotions, and they themselves do not even care that much if their comrades are dying, which makes it almost impossible for us to empathize with them.

Also never once a parasite thought that what the humans were doing was wrong, because the concepts of moral, evil and good are totally alien to them. They do not blame the humans, they are of course not happy of what is happening, but they recognize that the humans are entirely legitimated in exterminating them all. They are even genuinely impressed by their craftiness. They don't even care about the fact that they are hypocritically killing innocent humans too. In contrast, it was the human psycho killer who pointed that out.


These are all points that make Kiseiju very different from Shiki.

Originally Posted by AvianWing

Do sniper rifles not exist?

Sniper rifles usually use bullets with high penetrative power but not quite damaging. They are pretty effective against humans but they wouldn't be so much against parasite powered bodies which can survive several shots before going down.

Note that the soldiers aren't using normal bullets here, they are using pellet rounds, which can only be fired by shotguns at a relatively close range. They are devastating, but do not have much accuracy.

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Sniper rifles usually use bullets with high penetrative power but not quite damaging. They are pretty effective against humans but they wouldn't be so much against parasite powered bodies which can survive several shots before going down.

Note that the soldiers aren't using normal bullets here, they are using pellet rounds, which can only be fired by shotguns at a relatively close range. They are devastating, but do not have much accuracy.

I thought the logic was that they needed to damage vital organs (specifically the heart). Shotgun rounds give them better coverage because it's harder to aim at something that moves fast (parasytes). Sniper rifle is precise, especially if the parasytes cannot react, since they do not see where it's coming from, and can therefore be rather devastating. As you've said, parasytes also have powerful bodies, which make penetration that much more effective since armor piercing rounds have the potential to punch through the limbs of parasytes even if they guard their vital organs (or in the case of Goto, even possibly harming him).

I mean-- I'm not an expert on weapons or anything, but it feels rather silly that they brought nothing but shotgun and handgun against a species that are especially good at close combat.

[aohige]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to "snipe the heart"?
Especially considering all targets are indoors right now?

Shotguns make 100 times more sense. It's not like they knew they were going to be against an near-invincible monster like Gotou.

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by aohige

Do you have any idea how hard it is to "snipe the heart"?
Especially considering all targets are indoors right now?

Shotguns make 100 times more sense. It's not like they knew they were going to be against an near-invincible monster like Gotou.

That's why hostage situations in the building are surrounded by snipers, right? Especially since the original plan is to filter the parasytes through the scanner by bringing them out a group at a time. I'm not saying the efficacy of bringing shotgun isn't good, I'm saying ONLY bringing shotgun and handgun is silly. More vision, clear them from the windows, etc etc. snipers offer more than just kill shots, hence I originally said that gives more options for maneuvering.

[aohige]

1. Hostage situations do not involve inhuman monsters who can only be stopped by taking out their heart, any other shots only does minimum stopping power. Sniper rifles are entirely ineffective against parasites.
2. The entire operation took place indoors. We have no evidence that there were no sniper support, and it is irrelevant to show as they would not be part of the story even if they were deployed.

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by aohige

1. Hostage situations do not involve inhuman monsters who can only be stopped by taking out their heart, any other shots only does minimum stopping power. Sniper rifles are entirely ineffective against parasites.
2. The entire operation took place indoors. We have no evidence that there were no sniper support, and it is irrelevant to show as they would not be part of the story even if they were deployed.

1. So, since we've never seen a sniper rifle deployed. How do you know it's ineffective? Up to this point, we've pretty much only seen handguns from police and yakuza, and the latter is against Goto. Shinichi essentially sniped off Shimada with a rock from a distance. It's not an apt comparison, but it's better than no comparison at all. How difficult is it to "snipe the heart"? it's not going to just be one sniper, it's going to be multiple snipers firing multiple shots.

2. Gotou and Mayor casually strolled by an entire wall lined with windows and had a conversation. Gotou led the 5 SWAT guys to a room full of windows and turned his back against a wall of them. Not saying that snipers have full coverage, but when the entire walls are lined with them in multiple scenes? The head of the operation basically stated to shoot on first sight past the first floor, and when entire squads are killed off by parasytes, I don't think hesitation is an issue.

[Klashikari]

Shinichi used a rock which size was as large as his fist. It would obviously deal much more damage just because of the caliber.

Sniper shots don't have as much stopping power as a shotgun, and since parasytes are particularly resilient, you can't rely on sniping which is effective on humans for complete different reasons.
Sniping the heart is difficult when you had to deal with 1) indoors 2) moving targets 3) potential harden skin 4) regenerative abilities 5) parasytes being a complete unknown factor in term of psychology and tactics.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by AvianWing

1. So, since we've never seen a sniper rifle deployed. How do you know it's ineffective?

A character was so kind enough to explain exactly why in this exact episode, dude. Area > Dot.
Against a Parasyte, wider blast radius weapon with low penetration, such as shotgun, is preferable to a narrow radius high penetration weapon (such as sniper rifle).

Shinichi's rock was a wide radius, high penetration weapon. If it had missed the heart, it wouldn't have been as effective, but still far more stopping power than a sniper rifle.
Not to mention Shinichi had a clear shot OUT IN THE OPEN. Not indoors.

[Fellen]

Originally Posted by aohige

A character was so kind enough to explain exactly why in this exact episode, dude. Area > Dot.
Against a Parasyte, wider blast radius weapon with low penetration, such as shotgun, is preferable to a narrow radius high penetration weapon (such as sniper rifle).

Shinichi's rock was a wide radius, high penetration weapon. If it had missed the heart, it wouldn't have been as effective, but still far more stopping power than a sniper rifle.
Not to mention Shinichi had a clear shot OUT IN THE OPEN. Not indoors.

Additionally the person Shinichi was targeting was tumbling around slowly barely able to move. Sniper-rifles would not be able to kill a Parasyte in one strike and after that one strike they are most certainly not gonna get a second chance. It's basically an ineffective one-trick pony.

[GDiddy]

This pretty much wound up exactly how I figured it would....everything shot to hell as humans get killed off as well as the parasytes.

Spoiler:

Looks like next week, we see Shinichi and Whatsherface actually be nekkid like the OP

[Mubyoshi]

Pretty amazing episode, glad to see the humans are making a comeback. I wonder how the rest of the world is faring against these parasites.

[rasudoken]

Spoiler for Manga spoiler:

I didn't remember when they did the dirty and thought that they were gonna cut it out of the anime.

Looks like I was double wrong (for thinking it was before this massacre and that it was gonna get cut).

That scene is probably the scene I hate most in the story (because I don't like the girl).

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

One thing I'm not clear on is whether the parasites can survive on regular food alone. I thought it was mentioned that someone had attempted to do so (Reiko?) in a past episode, but I can't remember. If they can survive without killing humans, that does change things, but not much. That would only be relevant if all parasites were aware it was possible to survive in this manner.

Considering that Migi and Jaw are perfectly healthy without their hosts engaging in cannibalism, I don't see much reason to assume that Parasytes have any kind of special dietary requirements from humans.

I mean really. If you have a human body capable of manufacturing human specific proteins/amino acids, then there really shouldn't be any reason you couldn't get them by eating any random food source.

Originally Posted by aohige

Do you have any idea how hard it is to "snipe the heart"?

Mind. Hit someone center mass with a high powered rifle, and hydrostatic shock becomes a thing. You're not looking at a clean little hole. A .338 Lapua Magnum or a .50bmg doesn't past a couple inches from your heart to zero effect.



Opting for shotguns was likely more an assumption that this would primarily a close quarters battle.

[Stark700]

Well...........

It happened!

Spoiler:

Anyways yeah.

Spoiler:

The first half of the episode was glorious though imo especially with Goto. This guy is really a powerhouse as a parasite. Too bad also about that detective. Lesson of the day should be: never trust a killer with a gun near them.

[FlareKnight]

Spoiler for Ep21:

Well that sure turned into a bloodbath. Though really the head detective had it coming. Once they determined a group was completely annihilated they should have pulled back and gone to secondary options. Instead he just kept on forcing it until every single person under his command was dead. The whole shooting at the human shields was also pointless. They have body armor! Are your shots seriously going to go through armor, body, more armor, and then hit the guy on the other side? Just fall back immediately.

Once more Shinichi is doomed by the fact that he never tried the whole secret identity thing. Good reason to be terrified when Goto actually knows who he is. Plus with most of the parasites wiped out there are fewer false hits for him to stumble on.

Kind of sad that still Murano is left in the dark about things. But well at least they pretty well put that relationship to the next level. Plus it's a strong motivation to stay alive which is something Shinichi needs right now.

[bakaouji]

Wow, the last thing I was expecting from this show at this point was a pro-environmental-anti-human screed from a guy whom I wrongly pegged as a parasite from the get go. But it didn't seem like the parasites necessarily shared his misguided ideals or anything-- Reiko just kept him as a pet so she could study him (and of course to use him as a tool to create safer feeding grounds for the parasites).

I guess what surprised me the most was how scared Shinichi was of Gotou. I knew he was wary of him but I didn't think he would quake in his boots just at the sight of him. But all that fear is washed away after performing coitus with his girlfriend, which again, came out of left field.

I never cared for their relationship because the show never gave me a reason to other than Murano just worrying about Shinichi for every waking moment of her life, but it never got in the way of the story enough to bother me too much. So it's a bitter pill to swallow watching Shinichi find courage after his girlfriend has pity sex with him. After all, she has to be useful to him in some way before the show ends. But honestly, it felt like Murano asked for it because she was afraid that she'd lose him forever if she didn't give him her most prized possession.

Either way, everything was going dandy right up till the end. Would've been nice if Migi made some wry comment about sexual libido powering the survival instinct or something like that.