To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 22 Reverse Discussion / Poll

[dniv]

Also, hehe the Index volume just arrived at my house since Amazon sent it early. Yeee.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by dniv

Y'all hate on Touma too much. I find him by far the most interesting and well-written Toaru character. And I suppose, also my favorite fictional character too, to boot, lol.

Touman is tooooo bland. As a character his too ideal bland. I don't like him but I don't hate him. Pretty average to me.

My Favorite is Accelerator. He has character and the background play an important part on his development.

Touma is unchangeable. his like the corner of the story that won't change while the people around him change.

And I repeat. As a character. I don't like Touma. As a person. I like Touma.

[Kuroageha]

Chapter 1 complete.

[Daft]

Spoiler for Spoiler Ch.2:

Man oh man, Chapter 2 is crazy. “It’s time you learned firsthand what happens once it’s gone.” For now it appears Touma does indeed turn into a dragon when Imagine Breaker is gone. I hope his imposter/other self confirms whether or not that's his actual power or what else it is by the end, but I won't hope too hard for that heh.

[Kuroageha]

Oh man.
Does that count as self netorare?

[WiliamZ0]

Chapter 2 is out and we finally we go to main story, damn the story Touma replaced by other Touma looked quite interesting now.

Someone who compassionate about someone else, have no mercy for themselves (including part of himself that steal his role)

Also Dragon Touma even though get hit by Railgun from side, he didn't even feel pain

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

4. Yes, yes he did, but that was before Toumas' brain and memories got nuked to oblivion by Dragons Breath. Those words only apply to pre memory wipe Touma who could have had some chance of remembering something due to those memories still being there somewhere, not for post wipe Touma.

Pre memory wipe Touma had memories to possibly at some point get back.

Post memory wipe Touma doesn't have any memories to get back.

Now with that said, considering that in the current volume Touma was "completely destroyed" there are two things that could end up happening and a whole mess of consequences to will follow, I will list a few:

1. Pre memory wipe Touma returns with his body and his brain fixed due to his new body and somehow with his old memories intact and Imagine Breaker will have disappeared from his hand.

2. Post memory Touma returns as he currently is, except without IB.

3. Both pre memory wipe Touma and post memory wipe Touma return, only one of them can have IB.

4. Both return but neither has IB.

5. Both return but one has IB and the other has control over the IT or the dragons.

6. Both return, one has IB while the other one has IT and the dragons are released onto the world.

7. Both return, one has IB while the other has the dragons and IT is unleashed upon the world.

8. He is dead for good.

These are the ones that I could come up with on the spot.

If there is ANY point in the series where Kamachi can pull off some bullshit excuse/reason for Touma getting his memories back or at least some of them it will be in this or next volume with his "reincarnation".[/SPOILER]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Inb4 That's either some sort of hallucination Touma is having or is trapped in, or (my personal favorite) that there are now two him, pre memory wipe Touma (with his original memories up until he lost them but nothing after) and post memory wipe Touma (with all of his memories from after the wipe up until the current volume) but no one knows about it (Index gets knocked out or something during the ending of the last volume and doesn't see anything) and we spend the entire volume trying to figure out which Touma we are following while the other one skulks around as a shadowy figure trying to get others on his side to try and stop the "impostor".

... I can't believe how close I was with my theories.

So this Touma is definitely confirmed to be some sort of monster that happens to have taken Toumas' form (maybe IT itself) and it is something that is similar to Kazakiri Hyoka in nature... Maybe another artificial angel (or demon) that was locked in his hand or something.

My guess is that this fake Toumas' objective is the 103,001 grimoires, especially now that the controllers for pendex are gone.

[Requiem-x]

Misaki is about to have a very bad time... this is like inverted World Beta.

[devil_slayer]

I guess this volume is not called NTR for anything.

[Daft]

The end of chapter 2 made it look like Touma didn't have control over the dragon that came out, but in chapter 3 it looks like he has complete control over it and can turn it on and off as he pleases to escape and jump across the Thames. Seems like he may permanently turn into the dragon if he overuses it though. Othinus is telling him to rely on it for now though since it's another power of his in her opinion. This volume has been very entertaining so far.

I feel the dragon motif Kamachi is building up in this volume is really fitting for Touma. It represents both good and evil simultaneously as well as something that protects its treasure - literally Touma. Someone who prioritizes protecting people he knows and does a whole bunch of both selfish evil and altruistic good in the process to accomplish that. And of course there his declaration to the heavens of his rebellion to takes things back from the imposter.

[Kuroageha]

Touma outs himself by using his lost memories as defense forgetting the first thing he did after fighting Index was losing his memories

[WiliamZ0]

This is Omega mixed with Beta World
Poor Misaki, It used her weakness to control her, Poor Touma actually blame touma for this to happen

Also so far we know from between the lines Anna let two Kamijou Touma clashed intentionally

Also wondering #0 ... Man after last arc where Aleister mentioned #0 Level 5 to Accelerator, it's official now

I already see 'The Fool' gonna play in this part since it's unnumbered Arcana. Also so many honeybee references and it's pupa stage ... interesting~

I also interested in what Anna said 'Memories are not that conveniently linked to someone’s value. People are who they are whether they have their memories or not'

[Chosen_Hero]

Chapter 2 part 8:

Yeah, I have to call Plot Induced Stupidity on this part. You mean to tell me that the handful of people in the party that 100% witnessed or know/were told that Touma has amnesia had a hard time figuring out who was a fake after the fake not only spilled hos gut like that, but started acting in the most un-Touma way possible? ... Really?

Sorry Kamachi but I don't buy it one bit. It's one thing that you, still at this point, insist that Misaka still has a hard time understanding that magic exists (which is bs by the way), but THIS, this is just too much of a stretch, and here I thought last volumes PIS was the worst it could get.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Chapter 2 part 8:

Yeah, I have to call Plot Induced Stupidity on this part. You mean to tell me that the handful of people in the party that 100% witnessed or know/were told that Touma has amnesia had a hard time figuring out who was a fake after the fake not only spilled hos gut like that, but started acting in the most un-Touma way possible? ... Really?

Sorry Kamachi but I don't buy it one bit. It's one thing that you, still at this point, insist that Misaka still has a hard time understanding that magic exists (which is bs by the way), but THIS, this is just too much of a stretch, and here I thought last volumes PIS was the worst it could get.

See what I mean by Kamachi not trying to hide how much he loves hurting Misaki?
All this was done to make her fall and crash.
Especially that Misaki know who is the fake, yet Kamachi created the circumstances in which she couldn't resist to side with the fake.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by shmaster

See what I mean by Kamachi not trying to hide how much he loves hurting Misaki?
All this was done to make her fall and crash.
Especially that Misaki know who is the fake, yet Kamachi created the circumstances in which she couldn't resist to side with the fake.

I agree that it was way too force. I mean, the fact that Misaki chose the one that remembered her makes sense and was going to happen either way, but the HOW is way too inconsistent.

Ok, I have to admit that the visual of Othinus riding a raven with a saddle is too adorable and it is a damn shame that it isn't one of the images for the volume.

Also, Touma has finally awakened to his true nature as a Jojo and gained his own Stand, I hereby propose that we call it: Imagine Dragons.

[faiz blaster]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Also, Touma has finally awakened to his true nature as a Jojo and gained his own Stand, I hereby propose that we call it: Imagine Dragons.

Please stop. That would lead to all sorts of copyright issues.

On a side note, I cannot help but wonder what role will Aleister have in all of this? Does he even appear in this volume at all?

[NeutralZero]

Did misaka put a kick me on misaki's back? Give the girl a rest...
That aside... how come they didnt consider othinus here. She is with the other/real one.
They are a package already in normal situation.
Knowing the amnesia aside, othi siding with the other touma shouldve give them an idea...

[Kryn]

While watched over by the god of war, magic, and deception, Kamijou Touma – the kind of ordinary high school boy you can find anywhere – looked up to the moon and declared war.

Oh man, I never thought I'd want this kind of Touma. NT9 Boss Rush Mode Touma with heightened abilities plus War Fairy to Guide Him. I feel pity for the other touma

[Kryn]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Touman is tooooo bland. As a character his too ideal bland. I don't like him but I don't hate him. Pretty average to me.

My Favorite is Accelerator. He has character and the background play an important part on his development.

Touma is unchangeable. his like the corner of the story that won't change while the people around him change.

And I repeat. As a character. I don't like Touma. As a person. I like Touma.

Unchangeable? Really? So far he has changed so much in the past volumes. The Old Touma relied on his fist, was selfless, and didn't care much. In the newer and current volumes he has become selfish, and the way he took action has changed as well. Old Touma wouldn't choke someone, throw a bike on someone, hang someone on a helicopter's blade, stab someone with a pen, and mostly he's much more open about his selfish desires than the paragon of selflessness that he was before NT9 and NT10. Heck, many has been speculating that he might just became a demon lord if he continues down this change of personality that he has been going through. His morals, beliefs, and everything else has been changing and evolving while Accelerator, and Hamazura has remain stagnant, no, at least Accelerator has been going some changes, from the prick, to the prick with a heart of gold. You want to talk about unchangeable? The unchangeable one is Hamazura and so far he barely failed in anything in NT which is disappointing as a Hamazura fan. Heck, I wasn't fond of Touma until NT9 happened. That volume alone changed my perspective on Touma and to say he didn't change between volumes? That's just plain wrong. I mean people seems to have missed the subtle cues on how Touma just panics and go paranoid at the thought of anything that reminds him of the NT9 hells, heck, him panicking when Othinus was gone from his shoulder, and the remarks about Tranquilizers and the likes shows that he didn't got off the NT9 hell well. Now, he's on the fence on the duality of what he does and whether he was good or evil for doing so.

[Chaserjacksaw]

Hello I'm new in this thread~ pls to meet u everyone.

Anyway Touma being such a disliked MC is super given already, his turtle like character growth which for worse goes even back & forth so its understandable that very few character development is seen & noticed.....and we want to see a mature grown up Touma(in personality) not delusioned by his mess up heroism & annoying preaching....(we just want a new Touma that it)

But it does not change the fact that due to such bullshit ideals which lead to him saving so many girls asses in the past....to the point that perhaps Touma might save a crying pure evil demon lord (if its a girl that is) no matter how big or small their sin is just like in Othinus case.....in a sense he is fair & unfair in the same time.

Touma fighting Touma might be a call for him stop saving other(for now) & its time for him to face himself & start dealing with his own issue. He preach this & that to others when himself is far from what he barking at others at all...oh the irony~.....I mean this whole NT is so goddamn eventful no hope for breaks at all calendar wisely~


Oh by the way its funny to see Misaki made to choose wherever she embrace "A long over distant past (Fake touma) or let go of it accept the painful present(Real touma) thought she is bound to endure a cycle of happiness & pain until a miracle is given by author if she choose the real one....

We cant blame the Misaki, she is long frustrated already by this insanely long super high lvl neglect play she is subjected into....(no wonder she became a closet pervert)