To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 22 Reverse Discussion / Poll

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Abyss after all is a Thelema concept.
Anna is Rosicrucian. What the deep depth is to the human will not be the same for her.

IT=Who Cleans the God and Slays the Devil=Touma's power=The Dragon that crosses over the good an evil.
In short, it is a power that knows how to properly adjust the world and what's the best of the world.

But Touma himself and the Magics Gods lacks an understanding or even notice the distinction between IB and Who Cleans the God and Slays the Devil.
Touma was unable to distinguish the two. The Magic Gods made the mistake in believing IB is what made Touma Who Cleans the God and Slays the Devil.
But it is the other way around. Who Cleans the God and Slays the Devil existed first and everything else came afterward.

Then what is IB's role in all this? Like Touma has realized before he absorbs IT back to him. IB is here because of IT.
This also explains why the right hand is only significant when it is defined as "Touma's right hand", and why the right hand loose its significant when it loose that definition even it is the same right hand. (What happened to Fiamma for example.)
But in other words IB needs IT to be significant. Thus suit Touma's comment on IB being cheap make sense.
The question of WHAT IB is aside, the WHY on IB ended up no different then the Magic Gods. IB came to IT because IT knows how to fix things.
This says a lot, as IB, like Magic Gods, does not know what is the right thing to do without someone providing them with the right answer first.

So the discussion on "does the person define his power and the power defines the person" is totally pointless. Who Cleans the God and Slays the Devil already have a predetermined role in this world that is independent of Touma.

Thanks a lot for this. This helps but I'm still confuse on some points on what's happening I pretty much flipped the table thanks to the afterwords and I will probably reread the whole arc, after I cool down and I don't have any stressful things to do.

Kamachi bullying Misaki didn't help my stressful work.

[Wandering Soul]

Accelerator vs the Queen was one of the main highlights of the volume for me.

[Daft]

This volume was entertaining from start to finish IMO. Seeing IT voluntarily return to Touma with IB and some advice once he lost was unexpected. Guess IT is not really against him in the end. It did declare that it was Touma's own power given sentience because of Touma. This all may literally have been a lesson/test spawned from Touma's wish of being better if taken at face value. Connections to end of OT1 aside, it feels like this whole incident happening because of Touma's regrets in his failures is a continuation of the end of OT22 where he thinks back on all his shortcomings and of the possibility of him ending all the incidents he has been involved with better if he had done things differently. I'm interested in seeing how Touma's approach to incidents he gets involved in will change going forward. He agreed with IT that he will do better in the future so that this doesn't happen again. Will he try to be more coldly pragmatic as IT was in this volume? Will his dragon side come out more frequently to give a physical edge he's never had until this volume. Thinking back on it, when IT revealed his dragon form he still had IB. Does that mean Touma would still have IB even with those physical boosts now that they are whole again? Also, now that IT is back inside Touma wouldn't that mean that turning into a dragon would be a literal transformation from the inside out as was shown in Chapter 4 as opposed to the shell Touma was utilizing with the "dregs" of that power that could be dispelled with IB? It would certainly explain how Touma can survive so much crap and be up the next day. Body of fantasy indeed.

Now that Anna has declared herself as the next mastermind behind the scenes, I wonder what the first arc of the new series will be about? It could focus on the new era of Academy City Accelerator is trying to create. I kind of find it likely considering Seria was name dropped along with her boss at the end of this one and there will be a side story introducing her background in more detail in between now and the 3rd series. Perhaps she will finally enter the centerfold as Misaki did after NT11. Kamachi commented about wondering when he will give the same treatment to Seria as he did for Misaki in that volume's afterword.

Finally, this volume ends with Touma telling himself he will ask Index to try investigating his newfound powers once they settle back down now that he has better context than ever because of IT. I hope that wasn't a red herring and Index has something to say in the next series. It felt like a neat little bow to tie her back into the upcoming plot but who can say as to what goes on in Kamachi's mind .

[rladls2121]

Has anyone seen Lessar or Birdway in this Volume?
I have not finished reading the translations yet.
I am not sure if i saw True Gremlin members either.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Thanks a lot for this. This helps but I'm still confuse on some points on what's happening I pretty much flipped the table thanks to the afterwords and I will probably reread the whole arc, after I cool down and I don't have any stressful things to do.

Kamachi bullying Misaki didn't help my stressful work.

There's a part after the afterword in case you missed it Tsunade.

[LKK]

Thread title changed from Rebirth to Reverse. Poll opened.

[salamander750]

All in all, this is a nice volume. It had it's up and down, there are some problems with how Kamachi address IB and IT( I'm talking about you othinus, talking about IT while Misaki is dying wtf? ), but it did shown a side of Touma we usually don't see: the one that represent his ugly desire. Well this volume is fine by me. What about shmaster, Kuroageha, tsunade666, Chosen_Hero, What do you guys think about this volume?

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Daft

Finally, this volume ends with Touma telling himself he will ask Index to try investigating his newfound powers once they settle back down now that he has better context than ever because of IT. I hope that wasn't a red herring and Index has something to say in the next series. It felt like a neat little bow to tie her back into the upcoming plot but who can say as to what goes on in Kamachi's mind .

The title character finally regains her relevance. We just needed to wait 2 entire series for it to happen.

[Ksaraf23]

This volume was basically the final two episodes of Evangelion, except Touma didn’t completely lose his s*** before or after the end of this little incident.

Well he did lose his s*** during NT9, but it didn’t really stick.

[Ksaraf23]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Damn numbering.



Good. Shipping was never important to the plot of this series. Screw those guys.

---

Also can you guys remember to hide novel spoilers behind spoiler tags. The pics are enough but I'd like to go into this without a novel summary for maximum enjoyment.

Shipping is what usually destroys shows and novels, and leads to overall decreases in quality as a result of the authors/creators doing everything they can to please fans so as not to lose potential revenue.

Kamachi-sensei has balls for going against the norm in that respect.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Ksaraf23

Shipping is what usually destroys shows and novels, and leads to overall decreases in quality as a result of the authors/creators doing everything they can to please fans so as not to lose potential revenue.

Kamachi-sensei has balls for going against the norm in that respect.

He made a shipping novel that was actually extremely good plot wise. I'm surprised he wrote romance.

[Callum18]

I really want to say this was my fav NT vol if not my fav vol of the whole series, but something felt off to me. I don't know why because this vol had everything I had dream for Dragons, Touma vs Touma, call backs to OT1. Maybe it was the execution of IB/IT? I have to get back on this one.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Callum18

I really want to say this was my fav NT vol if not my fav vol of the whole series, but something felt off to me. I don't know why because this vol had everything I had dream for Dragons, Touma vs Touma, call backs to OT1. Maybe it was the execution of IB/IT? I have to get back on this one.

Did you read the ending after the Afterword? Maybe you didn't like the other Touma?

[Ksaraf23]

I always find it funny how OT and NT have similar themes of death and rebirth when it comes to the forces at play.

In OT, we get the shifting of political forces as a result of WWIII, as well as changes in the magic world brought about by the summoning of Archangel Gabriel. In NT, we have the death of the entire status quo as a result of losing Aleister Crowley and Coronzon!

And that’s not even talking about the similarities between the final fights Kamijou had in both of them! When he fought Fiamma, Kamijou was trying to fight for the greater good despite his hypocrisy; this time, he was fighting IT (I think that’s what it was) for his own selfish reasons and self interest , finally accepting his hypocrisy as part of who he was!!

[OH&S]

I haven't got the time to do an in-depth review but this was an immensely satisfying volume from start to finish with a minor criticism of Kamachi once again skipping scenes in the Epilogue to conclude the novel swiftly rather letting things naturally wind down (The plane trip back to AC must have been interesting). It was great seeing all of the old characters again; the fights between Kamijou Touma and "Kamijou no Touma" and Accelerator and Elizard rank among the most brutal (the former) and best (the latter) in the series. The story beats echoing back to Volume 1 with the Stiyl and Kanzaki fights and finishing off with Index and the lingering feathers from John's Pen really triggered the nostalgia in a good way; like progress had definitely been made since then and the entire chapter up until now was being closed. Definitely ranks among the best Index novels. Kamachi has been consistently solid lately.

Like NT9, a dissection of Kamijou's character once again took center stage allowing us to see a side of him we only rarely see (OT2, OT17, NT9, the Virtual-On novel, NT17/18). This entire NT series has basically been one huge character study of Kamijou Touma and it has been thoroughly enjoyable right to the end proving that he is the most fascinating and usable character in the franchise and light novels in general. Maybe not from a character progression standpoint (Accelerator definitely has him beat on that) but definitely from a character development and getting the most bang from your buck standpoint.

This really was one of those stand out volumes like NT9 which has given me motivation to reread the series from the beginning and this time pay close attention to the key terms like dragon; Kamijou no Touma; Rosicrucians etc. What's also surprising is that the side story manga (Railgun, Accelerator and Astral Buddy) have aided in reaching this conclusion with the plot points that were brought up( seriously, all of them were being invoked in NT22/NT22R in some way).

There has to be an answer to the secret of what IB and KnT is with all the clues we've been presented. My current working theory is that KnT = IT = all the dragons we've seen to date (this part should be obvious now); and is something akin to a gemstone ability (with one of its side abilities being drawing in the Imagine Breaker). The truth of the world is that there never was a Magic Side and a Science Side; the distinction only exists because Aleister divided the world as such. With that in mind, going back to the history of magicians and esper: gemstone espers predate magicians and were the talented people that magic was originally created to close the gap with. KnT has to be something to that effect. It would explain why KnT came out of KAmijou's body as the prism for AIM thought beings like Kazakiri, Aiwass and the AIM Burst. It would also explain why in the latest Railgun Arc (Jailbreaker Arc), Kimi could only use the Angel dragon outside of the range of the AIM Jammers.

But this does raise some other questions as to how the ability can have a mind of its own and escape from its owner to go to other people. How exactly does World Rejecter fit into all of this (does it only exist because KnT draws in IB to Kamijou's right arm and the world tries to adjust to the magic god's wishes to match that?) What power of Kamijou's (KnT or IB) leaked to create WR? What do the wishes have to do with it?

The answers are definitely within grasp. But it might take another LN series just to make sense of it.

Either way, I've been motivated to re-read the series and compile a list of relevant quotes regarding IB and KnT. I mean, I've got at least half a year till Part 3.

[Callum18]

Originally Posted by dniv

Did you read the ending after the Afterword? Maybe you didn't like the other Touma?

Yup, I did read the afterword and I really did like and enjoy the other Touma. One of issues with the vol is that I really think this should have been the vol to tell us the full story about IT. Especially with all the build-up NT had going for IT. Also, Touma sudden blood-lust to kill IT at all cost just felt out of place. Touma won't kill anyone unless you killed someone close to him or someone right in front of his eyes. I guess you argue Touma was scared IT was going to kill Index, Misaki and Misaka but it still feels like Kamachi wrote killing machine Touma to cop out on the truth about IT. Touma even says at the end of vol maybe I should ask Index about my powers when everything has clam down? But why didn't he ask IT during his big fight with him when he had the chance?

Again, I still think this was my fav NT vol and I thought the NT ended a lot better then OT did, but maybe I'm just tried of all the teasing, secrets and cop out's at this point.

[Endscape]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more Gemstones in the next series.

[BladeMancer]

That dragonshell is interesting. Its going to change up the way Touma fights for good, as well as the way he redeems people.

[Daft]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more Gemstones in the next series.

Maybe Anna will send some vampires to mess things up. If anyone knows stuff about them it would be someone as old as her.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

That dragonshell is interesting. Its going to change up the way Touma fights for good, as well as the way he redeems people.

Doubtful. It was gone as soon as he got IB back to him unless you want him to actively get his hand blown away.