Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[- HEROiNEx]

Exactly. D: I wasn't saying Ichigo knows Orihime like 111111000000 % as much as he "understands" Rukia (which I dont even think he does). But he does understand her in SOME way. Its not fair to say he doesn't, because everyone has shown understanding toward Orihime and other characters. So why is it all of a sudden Ichigo doesn't understand even a little? D: I think everyone can relate to everyone and find a common understanding even if they're not trying.

@ Suki ;;; I don't think it matters what she meant. Rukia came into Ichigo's life and completely changed it, in either which way anyone wants to think. Orihime clearly just stated that she was the person who changed his life, and she was right. And as for the understanding part, I think there's different types of understanding, as I've said before.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

I don't even recall where it was clarified that he understands Rukia's guilt complex over Kaien's death, for all the talk of how he understands her deeply. The fact that he pissed her off in HM by being over-protective also shows he doesn't understand her perfectly.

.

The only person OD ever said understands Ichigo is Rukia. Orihime is great at empathizing but she does not understand him

i.e "Man in my HEART" chapter

Never have I said it's the reverse. No I said Rukia is Ichigo's rock...

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I'm pretty sure Rukia is Renji's best friend. She's also grown pretty close to Orihime



Maybe not. I think Isshin and Urahara may possibly understand Ichigo better but Orihime has probably demonstrated the most understanding.

- She basically recited almost word-for-word of Ichigo's thoughts and doubts about going to Soul Society, without Ichigo speaking a word to her about it

- picked up that Kon was an impersonator when he was in Ichigo's body.

- knows when something is bothering Ichigo even when he tries to cover it (she knew, for example that Ichigo was upset by the fact that he was being pleasant at school).

-Another good example would be when she visits Ichigo during the vizard training and analyzes his reaction to her words.


- seemed to be the only one in SS who really understood how important Rukia was to Ichigo (ironic, yes because this is one of the favorite references of IchigoXRukia fans)

There's probably other examples too. She's often used to narrate Ichigo's feelings.


.

One of my favorite posts of the past on Orihime understanding Ichigo. (*Waits for OD to present the Grimmjow hollow-mask thing to disregard the above completely*)

And the guy below I quote for credibility. (Although for full disclosure, let me clarify again he thinks Rukia understands Ichigo best).

Originally Posted by Sinta

I do think that Inoue understands Ichigo pretty well. But saying she understands him better then anyone in the series. That is pushing it...

Apologies to Sabaku Kyu and Sinta for dredging up months old posts. OD, do me a favour.........I'm more interested in hearing why Ichigo's understanding of Rukia and her problems is so profound. These debates always seem to revolve around which of the girls is better able to understand and support Ichigo, rather than how he understands them. Especially, I haven't seen many discussions of how Ichigo understands Rukia. It gets annoying sometimes....

[SUKISUKILOL]

But saying that Ichigo and Orihime understands each other sounds to... i dont know. Humans arent really that complicated, i understand the most people i known a little. So when i say understanding i mean a deep understanding, wich Ichigo and Orihime dont have. They dont even understand each other good enough to be in a relationship But well thats just my opinion...

[Amirali]

SUKI, what do you think is understanding deep enough to be in a relationship (*confused*) ? Just lay it out.

[- HEROiNEx]

Yes!
Please, just lay it out. Because, I honestly have no idea.
And isn't being a relationship getting to know that person, and creating an understanding you both can share? D:
What do you think someone really needs prior a relationship. >w< As Amirie-kun said, just lay it out. -nodnod-

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

One of my favorite posts of the past on Orihime understanding Ichigo. (*Waits for OD to present the Grimmjow hollow-mask thing to disregard the above completely*)

That won't do here...


Thats called "EMPATHY". If she understood him...she would not have done this...

Spoiler for SHE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND ICHIGO:

True understanding...

Spoiler for CLICKY:

EMPATHY...

Spoiler for Clicky...:

Empathy and Understanding...is a two different things. Rukia does the latter while Orihime does the former..

Good enough?

[xRyn Regalia]

i don't really understand why i'm posting, but i suppose i'll voice my opinion.

honestly, i find that ichigo could be well suited for orihime or rukia to be perfectly honest. it's really just a matter of understanding (knows that's been said a lot but still) how both relationships work and it sounds a lot like there is controversy on Ichigo and Orihime. I'm not sure why, but really Ichigo and Orihime, though it may not be the most profound and tight of relationships, there certainly is a certain...something you could say between them. They do share something of a similar sort of history having lost someone very close to them and i think that gives Ichigo a sort of closer bondage to Orihime in some aspects. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're the tightest bunch in the whole Bleach universe cause we all know that's not true, but really to say they Ichigo doesn't understand and such with Orihime seems a tad bit overboard and biased in my opinion.

Same with Rukia, I suppose. She understands Ichigo quite a bit and they have a more steady (i suppose you could say) friendship than Ichigo does with Orihime. You see them together pretty much all the time though this usually is on Soul Society business before Rukia is taken for execution. Nevertheless, though it's not clear to the fullest point, Ichigo and Rukia bear a relationship that only they can bear because Rukia gave Ichigo the chance to save his family...with a minor drawback on Rukia's befalf xD, but still it's basically a half and half situation in my opinion and i'm really not biased about the situation. Just to get all this crap out of the way, i would push Ichigo on Tatsuki, though it'll never happen and such but whatever.

It's pretty much an equal sort of playing field, Orihime has her strong qualities and bonds though they may not be seen the way Ichigo naturally is; he is just the person that doesn't show that type of stuff very often.

Rukia is a bit the same way, she doesn't show herself much like Ichigo and that provides a bit of her own bond and strong qualities. It also lets her have a possible better understanding in some aspects because she has a better understanding of ichigo's life since she's contributed...a very great deal to it.

Perhaps im throwing out nonsense, but i honestly just think that people are being a bit too harsh on Ichigo and Orihime's status. There is something there and that cannot be denied no matter how faint it may see at the moment. I suppose that's all I'm saying and maybe that's already known so...now im tired. ^^;

[Amirali]

OD, you do realize in some dictionaries, one definition of empathy would be :

American Heritage dictionary:
# Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

Webster-Mirriam:
the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this


*Feels more confused*. I don't get the distinction you're trying to make. If anything, my knowledge of English is that "empathy" indicates a greater degree of closeness and emotional bonding than "understanding". (Hopes for Venus to chime in). I doubt that was your intended statement.

[SUKISUKILOL]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

SUKI, what do you think is understanding deep enough to be in a relationship (*confused*) ? Just lay it out.

Since you probably have to spend a lot of time with that person lol You got to know each other pretty good. You need to know why he act the way he does cause It would be kinda frustrating to not know and the relationship would probably end soon Okay i dont really think there is any rules how it should be in a relationship. Im just telling you my opinion.
Ichigo and Orihime have known each other for a long time and they are still not close. They need to be closer friends if they are gonna have a relationship. Cause comeon wouldnt it be kinda weird if Ichigo all of sudden just kissed Orihime?

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

OD, you do realize in some dictionaries, one definition of empathy would be :

American Heritage dictionary:
# Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

Webster-Mirriam:
the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this


*Feels more confused*. I don't get the distinction you're trying to make. If anything, my knowledge of English is that "empathy" indicates a greater degree of closeness and emotional bonding than "understanding". (Hopes for Venus to chime in). I doubt that was your intended statement.

That was a good...one unfortunately ...I can't elaborate more than this.

You can empathize with a TV star. Does that mean you know or understand them?

[Nervous Venus]

Originally Posted by Hayashi Takara

Ugh... sorry, gonna be a spelling natzi, but its "able"... You've repeated that mistake too many times, I just had to point it out. Sorry.

Anyway, is that your best rebutal?

It's rebuttal, dear.

Anyway, bleachaddict and amir says it best:

Originally Posted by BleachAddict

Understanding, like love is too big of a word...each person as a different interpretation of the word.

Which is why there will ALWAYS be circular arguments.

I'm sure if Orihime gets with Ichigo, people will say, well, Ichigo and Rukia will always have a stronger bond.

I'm sure if Rukia gets with Ichigo, people will say, well, she looks like a boy. ( I'm sure Orihime fans will have much more to say, but as I've quit being an Ichihime fan so long ago, I can't seem to recall any other reason.)

Originally Posted by amirali1985

On the one hand, he certainly understands her enough to know she couldn't be a traitor. But then again I think even Urahara knows that. Ichigo also understands that she's a healer not a fighter. But does he understand her insecurities?

He doesn't yet, and he proves that over and over again. He doesn't even know that he embarasses her, or that she even likes him, the booby! But he doesn't have to. Like you said, all they need is to trust and care for each other. Which are qualities that ALL of these characters share with one another.

However, so far in the Bleachverse Ichigo and Rukia comes the closet to the definition of a "full understanding" of each other, though not without its flaws. While that doesn't help their chances of becoming lovers, I think that their bond is closer than Ichigo and Orihime as of right now. I'm not sure if I'm interested enough in BLEACH right now to wait for any romantic developments between Ichigo and Orihime to close the gap, but after 300 + chapters of looking, I suppose I can hold out for 100 + more.

I still think everyone will just end up as great pals at the end. Just my personal opinions. No need to dispute it.

While I'm waiting for new chapters, I feel I no longer have a need to debate about the romance, but as I'm constantly amused by some of the posters here, I enjoy the circular arguments. Carry on, OTP crusaders.

[xRyn Regalia]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

You can empathize with a TV star. Does that mean you know or understand them?

That one completely flew over my head.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by xRyn Regalia

That one completely flew over my head.

Quickly...my family is yelling at me to get of the pc

Just because you can empathize with a person doesn't mean you truly understand them. If Orihime did...then she would have known what Ichigo needed. She did not...

So she may be perceptive when it comes to his feelings. However since she doesn't understand him. She can not do anything to change em...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

Apologies to Sabaku Kyu and Sinta for dredging up months old posts. OD, do me a favour.........I'm more interested in hearing why Ichigo's understanding of Rukia and her problems is so profound (instead of the converse). These debates always seem to revolve around which of the girls is better able to understand and support Ichigo, rather than the other way around. It gets annoying sometimes....

Not a problem. I'm glad to be used as a reference, though that post did a contain a mistake that was pointed out later: Tatsuki was actually the one who explained to Ori that Ichigo disliked the Don's catchphrase

But another good example to add to the list would be when she visits Ichigo during the vizard training and analyzes his reaction to her words.

Orihime definitely has great understanding (or empathy as OD calls it) of Ichigo. It goes beyond just being to just vaguely feel when Ichigo is happy or sad, but usually knowing his motives and thoughts in detail.

That being said, she isn't a mind reader and there are some things about Ichigo she can't fully understand, such as his hollow, who is actually a separate being from Ichigo himself.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

OD, you do realize in some dictionaries, one definition of empathy would be :

American Heritage dictionary:
# Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.


Webster-Mirriam:
the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this



*Feels more confused*. I don't get the distinction you're trying to make.

She's just digging herself into a deeper hole, I think she's confused the actual term of empathy with animal empathy, which is just a vague, instinctual understanding of basic emotions, which is not what Orihime has demonstrated. Actual empathy is a much deeper connection than just surface-level understanding. For the record though, Rukia has also shown empathy for Ichigo.

[xRyn Regalia]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Quickly...my family is yelling at me to get of the pc

Just because you can empathize with a person doesn't mean you truly understand them. If Orihime did...then she would have known what Ichigo needed. She did not...

So she may be perceptive when it comes to his feelings. However since she doesn't understand him. She can not do anything to change em...

Ah, I getcha real good nows.

I thinks I have to disagree though since like Heroine said, there are various types of understanding and I for one think little miss Orihime has this towards Ichigo. Like I said, it may not be so strong like it seems with Ichigo and Rukia but it's there and to just shut Orihime off like she doesn't exist in Ichigo's life is a bit of an overkill for the poor girl.

Buh bye BleachOD? o:

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by xRyn Regalia

Ah, I getcha real good nows.


just shut Orihime off like she doesn't exist in Ichigo's life is a bit of an overkill for the poor girl.

Buh bye BleachOD? o:

She doesn't ...

Bye

[xRyn Regalia]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

She doesn't ...

Bye

You ish hatin that poor big breasted girl, huh?

she has something...no matter how itty bitty it may be.
lol.

[SUKISUKILOL]

I just dont get why people think Ichigo care so much about Orihime when he dont even think about her.

[Kakosan]

Sorry about this guys, but I just read these opinions about "empathy" and "understanding". I do not care about the context of the discussion, but empathy definitely implies understanding. In fact, it is IMPOSSIBLE to empathize with someone if you do not deeply understand him/her.