Fan service: Good or bad?

[animeboy12]

I general I like fanservice.

However I do agree that it depends on the contexts. Fanservice was a factor the ruined code geass for me. Think about the things that anime dealt with nationalism, war, genocide and kallen breasts and panties shots.

another thing the piss me off about fanservice is the CENSORING. How am I suppose to enjoy looking a females skirt if a huge bat, crow, or dark spot in the way

[yezhanquan]

For CG, it doesn't help that the show suffered from pacing issues, which could be resolved if the service was cut down. Give me C.C.'s real name, the origins of the Geass or Suzaku's superhuman strength any day.

Digging at Rosario Vampire, I see.

[0utf0xZer0]

I tend to think that whether people are pro or anti-fanservice is primarily dependent on whether the scene in question is something that caters to their tastes.

My general rule is that I'm pro-fanservice as long as the fanservice is actually hot - which, I'll admit, often involves being subtle about it, rather than going for a teenage hormone fest, although that can be fun too. As for the usual objections about shows enschewing good writing for fanservice or fanservice killing the mood, I say BS, because fanservice does not negate the show being good in other aspects in the hands of a talented staff. Bad shows are killed by craptacular writing and direction, not fanservice.

Or maybe my sensibilities just aren't elitist enough for me to care.

Originally Posted by defunct

You also have to put into consideration that most of these girls in the cutesy excessive fanservice shows are drawn to look like..they're twelve or something, three-four years than they are.

So to my conclusion: Fan service is Extremely-Super-Ultra Softcore Animated Child Porn masquerading as legitimate series

I'm quoting this two year old post because although it looks like trolling, I find it really weird how many people seem to think all anime girls look twelve. In general, I find that the sixteen-ish girls in fanservice shows look, well, sixteen to me. And this isn't something with my perceptions being clouded by too much anime watching: the series that first got me into anime was Moon Phase, and I pretty much nailed Hazuki's age the first time I saw it (14 according to the manga).

[Cherudim Arche]

I think that fan service is good to have, bits here and there, just to rouse people if they want it. Fan service becomes a problem when it is the sole basis for getting attraction or going borderline with hentai. A shower, panty seen is alright, even with semi covered as well. In my opinion code geass is alright to me the way it is used. I do have problem when it seems to be like rosario + vampire and kiddy grade.

[ganbaru]

I know it sound ''cliché'' , but I think it epend of the situation and the kind of story. But usualy if the fan service is light ( not often ) well done, do not interfire with the story and is subtle ( know, it's a long list) it's fine.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I'm quoting this two year old post because although it looks like trolling, I find it really weird how many people seem to think all anime girls look twelve. In general, I find that the sixteen-ish girls in fanservice shows look, well, sixteen to me. And this isn't something with my perceptions being clouded by too much anime watching: the series that first got me into anime was Moon Phase, and I pretty much nailed Hazuki's age the first time I saw it (14 according to the manga).

Many posters end up seeming remarkably uninformed about what women look like I've lost count of the times that someone asserts figure type equals age in these threads...

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Many posters end up seeming remarkably uninformed about what women look like I've lost count of the times that someone asserts figure type equals age in these threads...

THe fact than anime woman and real woman somehow look like they are not the same specie do not help them.

[KholdStare]

I should be open-minded and say that "it's okay if not excessive," but thinking back, I can't recall any moments where I enjoyed fanservice. Now I'm sure these moments exist, but if they're not memorable enough, then in general I pretty much hate them. I like jokes that has sexual innuendos better.

[Zaris]

It's difficult for me to argue that fanservice should be inserted only when it contributes to the story. Fanservice is what it is: a service to the fans, be it skin, sex appeal, or a camera shot up the naughty zone. If it's all part of a lighthearted comedy, you can't distinguish it. But if it's in a drama that's meant to be taken with an ounce of seriousness, you might call it inappropriate. But if it's absolutely necessary that a boob grabbing scene take place, that the plot cannot advance any other way without it, then by all means. But do it in moderation. As has already been posted, there is such a thing as having too much.

Is fanservice good or bad? Bad, only in excess. It's also a sign of desperation, in my opinion, to spike ratings and make a show seem better than it really is.

[Thingle]

Well I don't like it. Fan-servicey series' are the dumbest ones.

[othera]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I tend to think that whether people are pro or anti-fanservice is primarily dependent on whether the scene in question is something that caters to their tastes.

My general rule is that I'm pro-fanservice as long as the fanservice is actually hot - which, I'll admit, often involves being subtle about it, rather than going for a teenage hormone fest, although that can be fun too. As for the usual objections about shows enschewing good writing for fanservice or fanservice killing the mood, I say BS, because fanservice does not negate the show being good in other aspects in the hands of a talented staff. Bad shows are killed by craptacular writing and direction, not fanservice.

Or maybe my sensibilities just aren't elitist enough for me to care.



I'm quoting this two year old post because although it looks like trolling, I find it really weird how many people seem to think all anime girls look twelve. In general, I find that the sixteen-ish girls in fanservice shows look, well, sixteen to me. And this isn't something with my perceptions being clouded by too much anime watching: the series that first got me into anime was Moon Phase, and I pretty much nailed Hazuki's age the first time I saw it (14 according to the manga).

Totally agree on the age part,(moon phase was my first anime for ages, and i thought she was 9 then after 10 mins realised she was 13-14)

With a few exceptions, most anime girls dont look 5 years younger then they are, but everyone i know sais they do >.<

To answer the topic question, i dont like nor hate fanservice. As long as it isn't excessive it doesnt matter to me if it is there or not.

[Stealther]

Fanservice cannot replace story, characters and such. It should be used as an addition, a spice. So a show only relying on fanservice will fail in my opinion (unless it is hentai).

[Ash Falls Town]

When I first started watching anime I really hated fanservice. I mean it's completely pointless to show panty shots.

However I then realised that I was perfectly fine with male shirtless scenes and that that made me a hypocrite. So now I'm perfectly fine with fanservice and I'm a happier anime fan for it. Especially since I can't see any possible way for people to find panty shots erotic, so I usually chalk it down to camera angles.
Anyway a lot of fanservice outfits are cute and frilly and I like things like doilies and lace curtains so it makes sense for me to like them.
Although this is kind of making me scared that the internet is turning me into a disgusting pervert which would be bad.

[lubczyk]

Fan service in the form of ecchi seems like a gimmick to make a show deeper than it really is.

I've watched both seasons of Rosario + Vampire and I feel like a fool afterwards. I mean it had a school for monsters and magic and crap. You can't **** that up right? WRONG!!! The story and characters went absolutely nowhere. The source material and premise were so reeking of a promising plot, involving settings and deep characters, but no, it took its sweet time putting ecchi fan service into every episode so that the show would move at a snail's pace and get nothing accomplished.

Series that rely on fan service tend to go absolutely nowhwre. Compare Tytania to Gundam 00. Gundam 00 with it's buckets of Gundam porn and three decades of heritage can't muster anything resembling rising action. The climax will most likely suck, like Gundam SEED Destiny or Wing. Now look at Tytania, it doesn't have fanservice to rely on so it only has the plot and characters to carry it and it's doing a darn good job at it.

[Slice of Life]

As for the age issue, an objective measure would be the height. The growth process of girls reaches a plateau at about 14 years i.e. they're on average only a few centimeters smaller than an adult woman and 15-20 cm smaller than an adult male, or less than a head height. A 14-years old girl character that reaches only up to an adult males chest looks definitely younger than she's supposed to be.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I tend to think that whether people are pro or anti-fanservice is primarily dependent on whether the scene in question is something that caters to their tastes.

My general rule is that I'm pro-fanservice as long as the fanservice is actually hot - which, I'll admit, often involves being subtle about it, rather than going for a teenage hormone fest, although that can be fun too. As for the usual objections about shows enschewing good writing for fanservice or fanservice killing the mood, I say BS, because fanservice does not negate the show being good in other aspects in the hands of a talented staff. Bad shows are killed by craptacular writing and direction, not fanservice.

I have to agree with this completely. Chances are, most horrible shows with fanservice won't magically become better once the fanservice is taken out. It'll just be a horrible show without fanservice, and then what's the point in watching it?

Sometimes fanservice is inappropriate for the situation, but then in general it's probably a sign of bad writing or direction if it's there in the first place. It's like inserting comedy or something unneeded at a dramatic moment, unless the series is a gag series. Again, situation.

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Fan service in the form of ecchi seems like a gimmick to make a show deeper than it really is.

I also agree with this to an extent, but instead of thinking that fanservice is used to make the illusion of depth, I think it's just a way to attract viewers, and I don't see a problem with that. It's like scenery porn or awesome animation, except more blatant and distasteful for some.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Series that rely on fan service tend to go absolutely nowhwre. Compare Tytania to Gundam 00. Gundam 00 with it's buckets of Gundam porn and three decades of heritage can't muster anything resembling rising action. The climax will most likely suck, like Gundam SEED Destiny or Wing. Now look at Tytania, it doesn't have fanservice to rely on so it only has the plot and characters to carry it and it's doing a darn good job at it.

The problem I have with statements like this is that you make it sound like the fanservice is the problem, when the problem is lack of writing quality. The most spectacular "rising action" I can remember in an anime was in Gurren Lagann, which certainly had no shortage of fanservice, whether mecha or female.

Agreed that Rosario + Vampire was pretty bad. I can't help but think that the show would have been awesome if it was basically an ecchier version of Soul Eater.

And speaking of Gonzo shows, that studio is probably more responsible than any other for making me think that it's really, really hard to kill good material with fanservice - because Gonzo tried pretty damn hard with Strike Witches.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

As for the age issue, an objective measure would be the height. The growth process of girls reaches a plateau at about 14 years i.e. they're on average only a few centimeters smaller than an adult woman and 15-20 cm smaller than an adult male, or less than a head height. A 14-years old girl character that reaches only up to an adult males chest looks definitely younger than she's supposed to be.

I wouldn't consider standing height a reliable indicator of age. I know plenty of women my own age who only come up to my chest, which might help explain why I don't mistake characters like Toradora's Taiga for kids when I first see them. Basically, a girl in an anime who has a short standing height just strikes me as short, not young.

Now if we're talking sitting height, you have more of a case, since IIRC most of the difference in people's height comes from the legs, not the back. So in these situations, even a fairly small difference in height is significant. However, even this isn't that reliable an indicator for me because I think that a lot of anime studios don't know any better. Whoever animated Spice and Wolf comes to mind - Horo clearly isn't meant to be a preteen girl, yet she only comes up to Lawrence's shoulder in some scenes when sitting.

[Nukerjsr]

To me, Ecchi Fanservice is successful if they correctly know how to handle three things: Plot, Romance, and Bonehead Stupidity.

Let's narrow down to a couple of animes last year.

Strike Witches I would consider "good" fanservice series, because while there was tons of lolis and pantsu, it has other redeeming qualities to it. The fighting, the characters, and the build up is quite interesting. It balances it in a way where you see all this fanservice, but you don't really care. You don't think that all the panty-shots are keeping the show a float. So if series has a several redeeming qualities and doesn't focus on the fanservice, then it's wonderful.

Plenty of shonens do this as well. (See TTGL) You can focus on the action while sprinkling in some fanservice. It can still be a very entertaining series.

Let's go to one story a little more typical, with Kamen no Maid Guy, a ecchi series focused on comedy. This does have a lot of stupidity in the story, but doesn't use romance as a crutch to move the story along. It's simply formulaic and uses the fanservice as a form of comedy. Most of the characters are one-dimensional, but it's kept silly and light-hearted so it still feels like a nice thing to watch. It's a mood lifter.

Now, usually there's that kind of fanservice series or there's the other route, with the harem romance.

Enter Kanokon, which uses that. Something that tries to use romance, comedy and ecchi all to full force. The ecchi is there, but you can't really enjoy it because it feels like they try to inject plot where it shouldn't be. And I find it painful to watch due to the incredible boneheaded stupidity of the male and female protagonist. If the comedy is based purely around ecchi, but it's been done to death or you don't like the characters, then you have a problem. I would consider this a "Bad" fanservice anime. Romance and Ecchi are very hard to mix together, but it's possible. It's a very volatile combo.

That's my 2 Cents.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I wouldn't consider standing height a reliable indicator of age. I know plenty of women my own age who only come up to my chest, which might help explain why I don't mistake characters like Toradora's Taiga for kids when I first see them. Basically, a girl in an anime who has a short standing height just strikes me as short, not young.

All other things equal, a shorter teen girl will appear younger, especially when talking about cartoon characters that have less distinguishing features than real people in any case.

Futhermore, one should keep in mind that anime characters aren't born, they're designed, and important and/or unusual characteristics are chosen for a reason.

And while there are of course unusual short girls as well as unusual large ones the argument "I know some girls that look like this or that" becomes weaker and weaker the more characters you're looking at.. And (and that is the advantage of discussing height instead of more fuzzy characteristics like speech or mental maturity) having solid statistics at hand you can even quantify how weak it becomes. You can look at anime as a whole as well as in particular series if they feature a lot of remarkable short girl characters. Gunslinger Girl comes to my mind, for example (except if the girls are supposed to be <= 12 years old, I don't even know if they have an "offical" age at all).

Let me at least try to bring the discussion on topic again: I wouldn't even claim that the girls necessarily appear young for fan service reasons ... if you take the narrow definition of sexual fan service. In many cases you can also argue that they're supposed to look "cute" in a non-sexual way. Which is still fan service but in the wider meaning of the word (= whatever pleases the fan; Gunslinger Girl's fan service caters mainly gun freaks for example.) The reasons are hardly always as "clean" though.

[0utf0xZer0]

I don't really think the discussion is off topic, since underage girls is a common criticism aimed at fanservice in my experience.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

And while there are of course unusual short girls as well as unusual large ones the argument "I know some girls that look like this or that" becomes weaker and weaker the more characters you're looking at.. And (and that is the advantage of discussing height instead of more fuzzy characteristics like speech or mental maturity) having solid statistics at hand you can even quantify how weak it becomes. You can look at anime as a whole as well as in particular series if they feature a lot of remarkable short girl characters. Gunslinger Girl comes to my mind, for example (except if the girls are supposed to be <= 12 years old, I don't even know if they have an "offical" age at all).

Oh, I totally agree that height can be an indicator of younger age. Even I tend to perceive shorter girls as younger.

However, it's a very inexact indicator, especially since I doubt that most studios pay much attention to whether their teenage girls look like they've reached most of their full height. My point is that one should never assume that because a girl in a fanservice show is short, she's there for the pedo crowd. Plenty of people, myself included, appreciate petite but obviously legal girls. And I seldom have trouble differentiating between petite teen and true loli. Those "fuzzy" indicators you mention are usually pretty helpful for that.

As for Gunslinger Girl, that actually is a case we're I'd say that some of the character could be preteens - I personally peg the younger looking characters, like Henrietta and Angelica, at 12-13. For some reason the fact the manga has the occassional panty shot doesn't really set off my lolicon alarm, probably because the fanservice is barely noticeable compared to other things in the series. That and I suspect that "appealing to the loli crowd" wasn't the only reason they picked such young characters - it helps with the "creepy child assassin" aspect of the characters too.