2010-04-29, 02:46 | Link #9561 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Alright, I'm in a bit of a fantasy mood today, and I came up with a motive for Team Beatrice.
The ghost of Beato-2 exists on the island, and can appear to people who have a low anti-magic toxin level (that is, people who believe in her). At the outset of all games, the people who can see or otherwise sense her are Maria, Kanon, Shannon, Genji, and Kumasawa. Shannon and Beato were both originally interested in Battler, but six years ago, Beato observed Battler promising Shannon that he would return to the island, and also witnessed him talking about his ideal woman. After hearing about that, Shannon gave up her interest in Battler and told Beato she could have him. Using her vast knowledge of mystery novels, Beato hatched a fake murder plan with the servants in order to make Battler believe in her, which would in turn allow him to see her. They planned to use Kinzo's gold to bribe everyone on the island into cooperating. However, Battler didn't come back for six years, and Beato believed that he'd broken his promise. When she learned that he was coming back for the 1986 conference, she decided to put the plan in motion anyway, but now she also wanted to confront him and see if he even remembered the promise he'd made (although he hadn't made it to her). The plan gets hijacked by a real killer in every episode, but in EP2 and EP4, Battler still ends up completely losing his magic resistance due to the murders. This is why Beato is able to manifest to him at the end of both games. In EP2 she explains everything to him, but in EP4 she doesn't know any real murders have occurred yet, so she goes ahead with confronting him about his sin. In EP5 and EP6, Battler apologizes to Shannon about breaking his promise early on October 4th, so Beato feels bad about doubting him and abandons the plan to confront him. However, the fake death plot is already in motion at that point, so Battler is brought into the fold and the plot is repurposed.
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2010-04-29, 03:07 | Link #9562 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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A proper Beatrice-2 ghost of any kind would be sufficient.
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2010-04-29, 03:40 | Link #9565 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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The white horse and gratuitous English are very clearly a Rudolfism which Battler picked up sometime when he was ten or so. In the end, all roads lead to Rudolf and disappear into nothingness..
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2010-04-29, 03:45 | Link #9566 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Right after Shannon repeats it Jessica says he was full of those lines back then so the white horse thing is definitely not the only one he used. Rudolf really is a cheeky bastard he was probably telling Battler to do all the wrong things to get him in trouble.
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2010-04-29, 04:38 | Link #9568 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Actually, I cannot fault Rudolf for this parenting strategy, if that is in any way related to why Rudolf is reported to be so successful with women -- it's a very important survival skill.
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2010-04-29, 07:13 | Link #9569 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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While Hachijo claims to have arrived to the truth, the fact that she later wrote completely different stories should be proof enough that what she writes aren't the perfect accounts of what happened on Rokkenjima. So can we really say that her first story narrates what really happened in her world 12 years prior? That's quite improbable, I'd say. From the pow of Ange, Hachijo and Amakuza in that 1998, it is impossible that the red truths of all the stories they read apply to their world, because most of them are contradictory. And that means we can't really use those red truths to limit the possibilities of what happened in their world.
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2010-04-29, 08:20 | Link #9570 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Well if Ange did have the grimioire, or the diary, or whatever, I think she was given it by Eva, and the only possible way Eva could have it is if she murdered Maria and took it. So maybe that's the implication.
That's why were thinking the jaw might be fake right? Because of that Diary surviving?
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2010-04-29, 08:41 | Link #9571 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Eva doesn't need to kill Maria to recieve the Grimoire/diary. Maria's character sprite shows her carrying around her bag at all times, but we can probably file this under Ryuukishi's laziness, because she probably wouldn't carry that bag around the entire time. Even if she did, I doubt the rest of the family members would just leave it out in the rain.
Under the assumption that they bring the bag to guest house, it's very possible that it might've survived. The explosion is assumed to be centred around the main house, and the guest house is quite a distance away. Not far enough to avoid structural collapse from the force of the explosion, but far enough to avoid the firely explosions. Afterwards, people salvaging the island could find the bag with Maria's items in it, and since Eva's the oldest surviving family member, the articles get passed on to her. On the topic of getting random things from the wreakage of the island, how did Eva get her hands on the head's ring? |
2010-04-29, 08:49 | Link #9573 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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2010-04-29, 08:52 | Link #9574 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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The last time we see the ring in Episode 3, if I remember correctly, is when Kinzo throws it into the rose garden, where Ronove catches it and hands it to Beato. After that, I remember it simply disappearing into obscurity. Here's a thought. If I'm right on my hunch that Beato represents someone who's solved the Epitaph and therefore become the head, then Genji handing the ring to the new head is a natural procession. Then when Eva solves the Epitaph and becomes the head, the first solver hands the ring to her (disguised by that fancy scene where Young Eva becomes Evatrice). For the sake of hiding the fact that she's found the gold, she doesn't wear it until after the disaster. |
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2010-04-29, 08:54 | Link #9575 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
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2010-04-29, 09:00 | Link #9576 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well Oliver I don't know if the diary survival could be actually connected to Maria's survival.
Regardless of Maria being still alive we'd have to think why the grimoire is now in Ange's hands. Now let's say that it was intentional, that the mastermind or Maria herself wanted Ange to have it after the accident. This could be true both in the case Maria actually died (she just made sure it wouldn't be caught in the explosion) and in the case Maria survived. Conversely let's say that the grimoire survival happened by mere chance. This also could work regardless of Maria dying (she just happened to leave the grimoire in a safer place) or surviving (she left it behind after disappearing, or lost it) Then there is the chance that Eva took the grimoire with her for whatever reason. And again this works regardless of Maria's death/alive status. What kind of option I'm missing that would only work in case Maria's still alive? Quote:
There is still the chance that the ring was found in Kuwadorian or randomly like Mammon stake and maria's grimoire. But I find this perspective less appealing because I think it is by far more likely that someone (Beatrice most probably, or Genji) would keep close such an important ring.
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2010-04-29, 09:05 | Link #9577 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
A side shot into the head with a shotgun could tear off a piece of the jaw which got left at the scene and was identified, while the body was carried away and disposed of in another manner -- then the diary was used as the basis for a forgery and handed off to Ange by hiding it in Maria's room.
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2010-04-29, 09:07 | Link #9578 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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2010-04-29, 09:13 | Link #9579 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Is there anything that clearly state that Maria's grimoire was retrieved from Rokkenjima after the accident?
If not there might be a chance that that was an old grimoire whose pages have been filled so Maria had to buy another one.
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2010-04-29, 09:14 | Link #9580 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
And yet Ange somehow doesn't have anything to remind her of Battler except the head ornament he got for her in an UFO catcher and explicitly says so. Why exactly?
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