Shakugan no SHANA II - general discussion thread

[Devard]

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

Personally I think another 24-26 episodes would be perfect, although 50 wouldn't be all that bad either. The problem with more episodes is that they might add in stuff they shouldn't have, just to maybe "fill-in" some spaces - even if the work is done right, it'll still feel a little out of place. So I'll stick with 24 good, concrete episodes than wishy-washy 50.

I agree, I'd prefer a twenty-some episode season II over a fifty-some episode one. Admittedly, it's highly unlikely that they'd go with the fifty-some route.

If you consider the fact that they went up to around the 8th and 9th novel for the first season and we assume that the novel will conclude on the 15th or 16th novel (I'm leaning towards the 16th or maybe even a 17th, I'm not counting 0 and S here, of course), from some simple math, you can see that it doesn't seem all that unlikely for them to cram the same amount of material into a twenty-some episode season II.

...And then some weeks later I realized my theory might not work out because I found out that they were going to bring Mea into the second season.

[Chiibi]

A season two of Shana!? ZOMG that's awesome!

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

I'm probably pretty sure that Shana has, indeed, been a Flame Haze for only a couple of years, maybe fifteen at the utmost. She is skilled in battle and seems to have a lot of experience by the time she meets Yuji, so I wouldn't risk saying something like five-to-six since that'd be a dangerous choice.

Please correct me if I am wrong. By the time she met Yuji, she could only easily beat Rinne. I don't think she will stand a chance against any Tomogara like Friagne at that time. Look at her inexperience when she fought Margery for the first time. She just attacked blindly without much thinking. Only after she later defeated Friagne with major boost from Yuji, then her skills started to improve a lot. I do hope in the second season, she will become even stronger.

[Zero Shinohara]

Shana was 11 when she became Flame Haze, from that moment she sttoped aged... I believe she's really 15 years old, she's more mature because her way of living when she was human, I mean how she was trained, thw way that Wilhelmina and Alastor make her to look the world in the way that a Flame Haze would do

Sorry for my poor english, I need to practice more

So...11? Then she really looks close to her age, after all. ( Shana definitely looks loli, even if her personality shows clearly otherwise. ) Which would explain a lot, really.

If you consider the fact that they went up to around the 8th and 9th novel for the first season and we assume that the novel will conclude on the 15th or 16th novel (I'm leaning towards the 16th or maybe even a 17th, I'm not counting 0 and S here, of course), from some simple math, you can see that it doesn't seem all that unlikely for them to cram the same amount of material into a twenty-some episode season II.

...And then some weeks later I realized my theory might not work out because I found out that they were going to bring Mea into the second season.

Yeah, I'd say the same thing. It's 90% unlikely that they would extend the series that much, so I think that, with the amount of info we have right now, 26 looks very plausible.

And I don't know what Mea's importance in the game is, so I really couldn't tell wether her appearance is a major fact or not - she could just play a small part in a "saga", instead of being a main/supporting character for the entire rest of the season.

Please correct me if I am wrong. By the time she met Yuji, she could only easily beat Rinne. I don't think she will stand a chance against any Tomogara like Friagne at that time. Look at her inexperience when she fought Margery for the first time. She just attacked blindly without much thinking. Only after she later defeated Friagne with major boost from Yuji, then her skills started to improve a lot. I do hope in the second season, she will become even stronger.

Well what you're saying makes sense - Margery also says it: "And I've heard you can't control the Flames at all". However, I would really doubt that Shana's past experiences involved only Rinne. After all, if there're Rinne at a place, then there's definitely a Tomogara lurking around. However it does seem that Shana's first "big" fight against a powerful oponent was the one against Friagne - He has, after all, killed a number of Flame Haze in the past and is considered very dangerous.

But I think that it's rather clear that, in her first fight against Margery, Shana was completely confused with her own feelings - which brought her to fight without using her head. Shana herself says so when she is at Yuji's yard, all beaten up. "It's your fault, it's all your fault", or something like that. Even against Friagne - she started the fight dismotivated and it was only after Yuji showed up to fight at her side that she managed to lay a few hits against him. Then, in the next battle against Margery, when Yuji was present there with her, she turned the tables around completely. So I think that it's not lack of experience or training, it was just not having the correct mindset to get into a battle.

And well, I hope she becomes stronger as well. Not only in her battle skills, but that her personality grows as well.

Ah, and if I may say so...

ALL THIS WAITING IS KILLING ME

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Devard

I agree, I'd prefer a twenty-some episode season II over a fifty-some episode one. Admittedly, it's highly unlikely that they'd go with the fifty-some route.

If you consider the fact that they went up to around the 8th and 9th novel for the first season and we assume that the novel will conclude on the 15th or 16th novel (I'm leaning towards the 16th or maybe even a 17th, I'm not counting 0 and S here, of course), from some simple math, you can see that it doesn't seem all that unlikely for them to cram the same amount of material into a twenty-some episode season II.

Are you trying to say that the entire season 2 is not enough to cover the novels up to 15th novel? Can we assume that season 3 is needed to finish up the story?

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

But I think that it's rather clear that, in her first fight against Margery, Shana was completely confused with her own feelings - which brought her to fight without using her head. Shana herself says so when she is at Yuji's yard, all beaten up. "It's your fault, it's all your fault", or something like that. Even against Friagne - she started the fight dismotivated and it was only after Yuji showed up to fight at her side that she managed to lay a few hits against him. Then, in the next battle against Margery, when Yuji was present there with her, she turned the tables around completely. So I think that it's not lack of experience or training, it was just not having the correct mindset to get into a battle.
[/b]

Yeah, your reason is way better than mine and I totally argee with you. Still, only after the fight with Margery, she can start to control her flame better and fly. All of this would not be possible before meeting with Yuji.

I, too, cannot wait any longer.

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

If you've seen the entire series, look for Shana-tan on Youtube. They have all three episodes. Like Contempt said, it's basically a funny variation of the anime, in which Shana - and in Episode 3, Hecate - is really small and instead of her beloved "Urusai! Urusai! Urusai!~" moments, they've become "Uruchai! Uruchai! Uruchai!~" ones. I really recommend it, it's funny as hell - but sometimes somewhat disturbing, lol.

Yeah, I saw it before it was licensed, soo.... I haven't seen the DVDs.

But if they're on YouTube, that's nice. Gotta look those up.

I <3 anything chibi.

[Ratix]

Hm, indeed that the first anime has covered till volume 9, but that doesn't mean it can't use materials from the earlier volumes can it? A lot of materials are left out...

Oh and while waiting...

*Flashes novel*

=D. Im having fun reading them together with Haruhi novel.

[Mizuno]

The dvd specials have some sexual inneudo in there, but otherwise it's entertaining.

[Zero Shinohara]

The dvd specials have some sexual inneudo in there, but otherwise it's entertaining.

Yeah, to tell the truth it felt a little awkward to see so many heavily sexual scenes when the series is really not in the mood for that. But again, in the last episodes, the amount of Shana-pantyshots were much above the norm, so I don't now if they were trying to get more audience or not :P

Are you trying to say that the entire season 2 is not enough to cover the novels up to 15th novel? Can we assume that season 3 is needed to finish up the story?

Well I'm not really going as far as saying that we can assume we'll have a third season when we still don't know a thing about the second. But take, for example, Rozen Maiden. While Season 1 followed a few bits and parts of the Manga, Season two took a completely different route from it, which still leaves a lot of the 'original' questions unanswered. I personally wouldn't like to see this happen to SnS, because more often than not, studios screw up with "last-minute" replacements for the story.

Two seasons are good, three may be pushing it too far. ( Besides, I will dare anyone in here to choose waiting for another three-four years to see the closing of the series and the very anticipated Yuji<->Shana kissu! )

Hm, indeed that the first anime has covered till volume 9, but that doesn't mean it can't use materials from the earlier volumes can it? A lot of materials are left out...

Oh and while waiting...

*Flashes novel*

=D. Im having fun reading them together with Haruhi novel.

Well personally I don't think that 26 episodes can cover 9 300-page+ novels completely, so when I learned that it covered up to the 9th, I knew there would be a lot of stuff missing. But I assume that the last volumes of the novel are more fast-paced, so it's easy to think that they would take a while to explain in the anime.

But whatever happens, happens. As long as it's a good season and Shana lives happily ever-after - even if everyone else die horrible deaths, I'm all for it.

By the way, give us some info on the novel! I'm really interested in it, but like I said on the Novel discussion, I'm really not willing to wait for another 7 years for all of the volumes to be translated into English. :\

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

By the way, give us some info on the novel! I'm really interested in it, but like I said on the Novel discussion, I'm really not willing to wait for another 7 years for all of the volumes to be translated into English. :\

Even the biggest of English-speaking fans have chosen not get spoiled by the Japanese novels, so I'd rather not have too many spoilers in this thread.

As for the fanservice issue; I remember during the first season we had a few very heated debates on this topic, but surprisingly many dire fans, including me, have successfully persuaded some people into the rail of thought that fanservice shouldn't be a bad word. I like well-executed fanservice (and I don't just mean panty flashes) and Shakugan no Shana wouldn't be the same without it. In my eyes, Shana is the most perfect moe character to have ever existed, and her moeness was able to persuade people, despite all the sexual inneundo, that she's first and foremost cute.

[Devard]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

Are you trying to say that the entire season 2 is not enough to cover the novels up to 15th novel? Can we assume that season 3 is needed to finish up the story?

Three seasons is too much. I would prefer that it just end with the second season and that it be that. Otherwise, an additional OVA or movie to do it would be cool with me, but three seasons is just overdoing it if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

But whatever happens, happens. As long as it's a good season and Shana lives happily ever-after - even if everyone else die horrible deaths, I'm all for it.

Ideally, either Shana or Yuji should die, or both. It'd probably be more sad if only one died, but depending on its execution, having both died could work for me. I may be able to live with it if they're able to pull off a good, sad ending where they're both alive.

Originally Posted by Toua

Even the biggest of English-speaking fans have chosen not get spoiled by the Japanese novels, so I'd rather not have too many spoilers in this thread.

I personally would like to see what's going on in the novels but since I only recently started posting, I guess I'm the minority around town here.

[Zero Shinohara]

Even the biggest of English-speaking fans have chosen not get spoiled by the Japanese novels, so I'd rather not have too many spoilers in this thread.

As for the fanservice issue; I remember during the first season we had a few very heated debates on this topic, but surprisingly many dire fans, including me, have successfully persuaded some people into the rail of thought that fanservice shouldn't be a bad word. I like well-executed fanservice (and I don't just mean panty flashes) and Shakugan no Shana wouldn't be the same without it. In my eyes, Shana is the most perfect moe character to have ever existed, and her moeness was able to persuade people, despite all the sexual inneundo, that she's first and foremost cute.

Oh, seems like I got a bit misunderstood again It sucks being an INTJ, I talk talk and still can't convey my thoughts correctly.

I didn't actually mean going and have people tell me what happens in the novel or go look for plot summaries. I actually meant that, instead of waiting for seven years to have all the novels translated into english, I'd rather study Japanese and read the originals. I've started doing it already, so I think that SnS will be a good motivation to finally get moving with it.

Edit: Oh, I just saw the "Give us some info on the novel". Sorry for that, just a wrong usage of words I guess.

And secondly, I don't think that fanservice is bad as well. Obviously, if you have tons of senseless scenes where the girl always shows up either naked or in the shower, changing or using the restroom ( Karin, anyone? ), it simply becomes a blatant attempt at getting the ratings up. I, too, think that the small amount of fanservice in the series was needed and well done - It's the not in-your-face, hope-you-get-a-boner-and-buy-ecchi-PVC-figures type of fanservice. Most of it is cute fanservice, especially when Shana makes her contract with Alastor. There, she's looking like the cutest, prettiest, most huggable mummy in history.

I only pointed out some of the last episodes' pantyshots because I think -some- of them could have been avoided. They were really quite a few, too, so I believe it was really an exception to the rest of the series.

@Devard:

Auuu. Although I agree with you that the more fitting ending to the series would involve Shana's death in some way, that's definitely not the road I'd like to see them take. I'd rather take an ending that doesn't answer every single question on the table, but in which Shana and Yuji get to be together. From the looks of things, I'd really think that Ike's completion of the love-square would create more opportunities for Shana to shine.

And, it's not like I'm threatening or anything but... if they don't get to be together, I'll go grab some of the guys I know from the Higurashi forums and we'll have a banquet on some Director's entrains. Just saying, just saying. * Whistles. *

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Ratix

Hm, indeed that the first anime has covered till volume 9, but that doesn't mean it can't use materials from the earlier volumes can it? A lot of materials are left out...

I suppose that first few episodes can involves some of the materials left out until volume 9.

Originally Posted by Devard

Three seasons is too much. I would prefer that it just end with the second season and that it be that. Otherwise, an additional OVA or movie to do it would be cool with me, but three seasons is just overdoing it if you ask me.

I see your point. Please forgive me for being greedy. It is just that I grow so fond of this anime series that I hate to see it end. It will be going to be very boring without anymore new episode of Shakugan no Shana. (Imitating Hecate's words) Please give me more, more and more of Shakugan no Shana. Sorry, I went a bit crazy.

[Ratix]

From what I understand, the current order of the story flow has already messed up, in which it doesn't necessary need to follow...

1) The chronological order of the novel. it can basically use the novel as a guide, and a guide only, forming a new story.

2) Totally derail from the novel. Happened to Crono Crusade and was rather badly executed. Well that was at least becuase Vol 7 and 8 of CC wasn't released during the production of the anime. Anyhow, this could jolly well happen to SnS considering the last few volumes has yet to be released.

3) Use material from the missing Vol 1-9 + filler + another "climatic" plot in one of the novel events, leaving a cliff hanger for season 3. With so much materials left out, its definitely able to fill up till a season 3.

[Devard]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

I see your point. Please forgive me for being greedy. It is just that I grow so fond of this anime series that I hate to see it end. It will be going to be very boring without anymore new episode of Shakugan no Shana. (Imitating Hecate's words) Please give me more, more and more of Shakugan no Shana. Sorry, I went a bit crazy.

Uh, there's no reason to apologize. If you want three seasons, you want three seasons. If I don't want three seasons, I don't want three seasons. It's just a matter of an opinion. You're entitled to your own and I'm entitled to my own. It's nothing to be sorry for.

Originally Posted by Ratix

From what I understand, the current order of the story flow has already messed up, in which it doesn't necessary need to follow...

I hope they just stick with the novel and go with it. If they have to skip things, so be it. But let's try and be even somewhat faithful to the source material.

[cyth]

Well, the broadcast date is narrowing down. October is now confirmed, broadcasted by TBS, MBS, CBC.

[Zero Shinohara]

Originally Posted by Toua

Well, the broadcast date is narrowing down. October is now confirmed, broadcasted by TBS, MBS, CBC.

This is me right after seeing this(2 megs, watch out):
http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/1181521670090.gif

From what I understand, the current order of the story flow has already messed up, in which it doesn't necessary need to follow...

1) The chronological order of the novel. it can basically use the novel as a guide, and a guide only, forming a new story.

2) Totally derail from the novel. Happened to Crono Crusade and was rather badly executed. Well that was at least becuase Vol 7 and 8 of CC wasn't released during the production of the anime. Anyhow, this could jolly well happen to SnS considering the last few volumes has yet to be released.

3) Use material from the missing Vol 1-9 + filler + another "climatic" plot in one of the novel events, leaving a cliff hanger for season 3. With so much materials left out, its definitely able to fill up till a season 3.

Well, although I'd like to see the anime following the novel closely as well, I think that taking on a different path to get to the same ending is also acceptable, as long as it's done well. It gives fans a bit more material to keep their hands full for a while, too. If you take a look at Eureka SeveN, for example, the Anime and the Manga are really different from each-other, but I'm loving the manga as much as I loved the anime.

I see your point. Please forgive me for being greedy. It is just that I grow so fond of this anime series that I hate to see it end. It will be going to be very boring without anymore new episode of Shakugan no Shana. (Imitating Hecate's words) Please give me more, more and more of Shakugan no Shana. Sorry, I went a bit crazy.

Haha, well as much as I'd love to see three seasons too ( the more Shana the better, with that you have to agree! ), I think that it may be pushing it too far. I'd rather have two well-done seasons that make you wanna go back and watch the whole series every few weeks than three seasons in which the second and third were done half-assedly. But hey, if they find enough material to keep the story flowing ( which I know they can since 15 novels is a lot of stuff, besides some of the stuff the author has in his head that didn't even get into any of the books ), then I'm all for it.

But, so far, the only series I've seen keeping strong until a third season was FMP! I don't know about Nanoha, Mai Hime and others, since I haven't watched any of those yet. But still.

[alvinkhorfire]

I hope the producer will safeguard the best interest of this anime. Just like Zero Shinohara said, whatever happens will happens. I guess that we can be very happy with the arrival of 2nd season. They certainly have it all well planned up.

August: The release of Novel Vol. 15
September: The release of Shana movie in DVD
October: The broadcast of Season 2

That way, they can keep the interest up to the arrival of season 2. Boy, I can't wait any longer.

[cyth]

Caught this interesting spoiler of the beginning of the second season on MOON PHASE today:

Spoiler for the beginning of 2nd season:

The anime will start off with an attack scene featuring Mare, one of the Guze no Tomogara, who's an original character from the Shakugan no Shana DS game.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Toua

Caught this interesting spoiler of the beginning of the second season on MOON PHASE today:

Spoiler for the beginning of 2nd season:

The anime will start off with an attack scene featuring Mare, one of the Guze no Tomogara, who's an original character from the Shakugan no Shana DS game.

Very interesting --- it makes one wonder if we'll see anything else added to the story in second season.