(L) Cross game

[Proto]

Any info on whether we will be getting a new OP/ED for the next season?

[BetoJR]

It's par for the course, these days, no? I'll be very sad to see the OP go (as I was with the first ED), but maybe something good will come out of it...

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I don't think I really realized how much I've gotten to know Kou as a character

I also think that we're observing Kou in a pretty detached way as a character, compared to Touch where Tatsuya was practically a narrator we knew inside out. I do think that the anime, at least, is focusing on both Aoba and Kou as main characters.

And at the end of the episode, at the 20:00 mark is for me, is the best scene of the entire season, bar none

I liked this scene very much as well. I guess releasing tension is one way to interpret it. To me it felt like, after watching Kou pitching, winning, and getting recognition, she wanted to get up and prove that she had that potential too, even if it was only to herself.

[Sackett]

I enjoyed this episode. It has so much of what makes Cross Game a cut above all the other anime out there.

But that last scene with Kou catching and Aoba pitching. It made me think about how much I admire Kou. It made me think: "I want to be more like Kou". Which is so unusual for any fictional character, let alone an anime character.

I mean, most the time it's some wish fulfillment: "I wish I knew martial arts and could Kung Fu my way through life, and solve all my problems with a properly placed Hurricane Kick!" Or: "I wish all the cute girls actually kind of liked me- or at least appreciated my good qualities".

Or whatever it is. But it's almost always "I wish" never, "I want", and they are different emotions.

That scene had me thinking: "I want to be like Kou. I want to notice when people are hurting. I want to know how to make them feel better."

That is the mark of a masterpiece.

--------------

Now on the subject of manga spoilers and so forth. I think what we really need is a Cross Game sub forum. Maybe it isn't as popular as some of the other anime, but I think there is a space for more extensive discussion of the series- including a manga-anime comparison thread. We're still less then half way through the anime. It's not to late.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I liked this scene very much as well. I guess releasing tension is one way to interpret it. To me it felt like, after watching Kou pitching, winning, and getting recognition, she wanted to get up and prove that she had that potential too, even if it was only to herself.

To add to this, Aoba also felt the energy and emotions that Kou was feeling as they celebrated their overwhelming victory. The problem Aoba had was that she could only imagine what it felt like, rather than actually experience it. I do give Kou a lot of credit for being so considerate of Aoba's feelings. This is why I love this show so much, both protagonists have such great chemistry that there is no need for words. I also enjoyed the subtle details that were expressed during this episode.

It's also nice to see Kou dominating a team that he should dominate.

[SagaraSouske]

After this episode, I think the purpose of the previous two episodes with girls team match is to flesh out even more how much Aoba love baseball and how slowly she is turning Wakaba's dream into her own - for her ability to be displayed through Kou by getting him to Koushien and in achieving that she is slowing accepting Kou. Even if no one realize or celebrate her huge contribution in making Kou the pitcher he is, as long as Kou acknowledges it, it is enough for her to get validated without playing herself. Her love for the sport and her feelings for Kou sort of reinforce each other and grow off each other - allowing her to bear the pain of not being able to play and not truly be part of the team. Wakaba saw the 'true' Kou even back then and Aoba is beginning to see the 'Kou' that Wakaba saw(well this process started a bit earlier I suppose).

[Pellissier]

Episode 24

Kou is certainly learning a lot from Aoba, but Aoba also showed to have learned something from him. It took 19 episodes of practice but, the "can I borrow a pot?" move is now ready to rumble.

Episode 5. Episode 24

Wakaba's Birthday, hence Kou's birthday, this means the anime timeline is around june 10th. It must be really hard for Kou to have a birthday he can't even celebrate. And his impassible determination to complete Waka-chan's birthdays gifts' list is moving. Anyway, this means Kou has turned 17, while Aoba is, or is about to be, 16.

Azuma can't remember the name of someone he was in team together for months, but he remembers the name of an opponent faced once ages ago. Kou already knows what this means, since Azuma only remembers the name of "those who matter".

"You'd better not play halfheartedly. Neither I nor Waka-chan will forgive you for it". This must be the first time Aoba openly expresses to Kou an expectation she has from him. Before, she never had expectations to begin with, and those few times she might have had, "he always let her down" (quote from ep.17).
Once again we see how much Aoba's attitude towards Kou changed, and her outright spite is now gone for good. The most she can do now is throwing a jab at him, or a joke in order to get a reaction. She's definitely become unable to be mean with Kou. On the contrary, she's showing the best side she can put, it's not easy for her after fourteen years spent seeing Kou as the monster who deprived her of the affection of part of her family.

I see the final scene as Aoba willing to release her tension. She accumulated a lot that day, and by a lot I mean a lot. Being unable to participate in the match, in the celebration for a victory, in the satisfaction for sharing sweat and efforts with the teammates, to reach a goal. The world in her eyes faded in that moment.
Kou never loses sight of her, and perfectly knew what she needed. He can read through her like an open book, this is where Kou is in advantage in their relationship: Kou knows Aoba better than how Aoba knows him. Aoba is often surprised by Kou's behaviours. On the other hand, Kou is never really surprised by her, he can always sort of figure what she's up to.
The reason being obvious, he never hated her and he's been observing her all the time. Aoba used to see an ugly big creature instead, so of course she never noticed a single good thing in him. That was until now, as many of you pointed out, she's probably starting to see what Wakaba saw in Kou, and her heart is probably warming up towards him in the process...

[The Rumblefish]

Since I can see there's some hard work (from The Rumblefish and joeboygo in particular) behind, if you wish to have the content of those posts back, just pm me and I'll send them to you.

(My post was making spoiler-tagged comparisons between the anime and the manga, until the point of the storyline reached by the anime so far.)

Don't worry, my points were rather some details I remembered on the top of my head than hard thoughts put into words. If we transfer the comparison talk to the manga section, I think we can have a more precise discussion than the one spontaneously going on here, and check more in detail what changed between the two versions. Although going through the 80 chapters thoroughy will probably take some time...

Regarding the black-out scene in ep24 : although the focus on Kô mixes the message a bit given the tension building between these two characters, I also understood that scene as "suddenly Aoba realises what she misses so much about not being on the pitch at that precise moment". Hence the following pitching-to-relieve-the-frustration scene.

[joeboygo]

Fish:

Whenever you are ready I'm looking forward to continuing our discussion there.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Proto

I'm starting to feel like the bad guy here since it seems like i only come to this thread to complain about someone or another, but I still think any comparison anime-manga should be moved to the manga thread, given that the people there are, for the most part, the only one who had had exposure to both mediums. You can't have much meaningful discussion here when most of the people won't be able to do a proper comparison given that they don't have anything to compare to.

Not the only one - I agree 100%. It's not ill-intentioned but frankly, I just don't want to see these manga comparisons - they reveal way more than they're intended to.

Originally Posted by Sackett

I enjoyed this episode. It has so much of what makes Cross Game a cut above all the other anime out there.

But that last scene with Kou catching and Aoba pitching. It made me think about how much I admire Kou. It made me think: "I want to be more like Kou". Which is so unusual for any fictional character, let alone an anime character.

I mean, most the time it's some wish fulfillment: "I wish I knew martial arts and could Kung Fu my way through life, and solve all my problems with a properly placed Hurricane Kick!" Or: "I wish all the cute girls actually kind of liked me- or at least appreciated my good qualities".

Or whatever it is. But it's almost always "I wish" never, "I want", and they are different emotions.

That scene had me thinking: "I want to be like Kou. I want to notice when people are hurting. I want to know how to make them feel better."

That is the mark of a masterpiece.

24 was indeed a brilliant episode, one of the best of the season. CG again proves that it reigns supreme in doing more with less - less dialogue, less histrionics, more meaning, more pathos. It was a beautiful episode but the scenes of Aoba's retreat into black depression and Kou's lifeline to her were indeed among the best.

I would also agree that Kou is a very admirable character. He carries his pain without asking for anyone's pity, and always seems attuned to the pain of others (especially Aoba, of course). He's freakishly talented but seeks no adoration for it - he just shuts up and does his job. Yet he offers no false modesty - he doesn't pretend not to be great, he just doesn't make a scene about it. It's no wonder that Aoba's entire family looks at him as an adopted son and brother.

[apropervillain]

Anyone else turned on when Aoba says "I'm fine, I can do more" in episode 24? I know I was...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Not the only one - I agree 100%. It's not ill-intentioned but frankly, I just don't want to see these manga comparisons - they reveal way more than they're intended to.



24 was indeed a brilliant episode, one of the best of the season. CG again proves that it reigns supreme in doing more with less - less dialogue, less histrionics, more meaning, more pathos. It was a beautiful episode but the scenes of Aoba's retreat into black depression and Kou's lifeline to her were indeed among the best.

I would also agree that Kou is a very admirable character. He carries his pain without asking for anyone's pity, and always seems attuned to the pain of others (especially Aoba, of course). He's freakishly talented but seeks no adoration for it - he just shuts up and does his job. Yet he offers no false modesty - he doesn't pretend not to be great, he just doesn't make a scene about it. It's no wonder that Aoba's entire family looks at him as an adopted son and brother.

yeah. kou is great, but he wouldn't be where he is without Aoba, don't forget that.

[leongsh]

Originally Posted by golthin

yeah. kou is great, but he wouldn't be where he is without Aoba, don't forget that.

Only in terms of baseball does he rely on Aoba. In terms of everything else and what kind of person he is, he is as he is - the one that totally captured the heart of Wakaba and now Aoba is starting to see why.

[Pellissier]

Kou's personality is great, I've admired him since episode 1. He's one of those typical "good" persons and this is shown in his daily behaviours, he's always calm and reflexive through things, he almost never get angry with others and if he does, it's either jokingly, or for a valid reason (see grabbing Aoba's collar in ep.5). He bears his pain by keeping it for himself, he's not type who would search other people's support. He keeps his promises, when Wakaba died, a child Kou went to the Summer Festival that evening because they promised, even if Waka-chan just passed away. Now a grown up Kou keeps buying Wakaba birthday presents every year, following the list, but no one knows about it, he just does it silently in perfect Kou-style.
As Guardian Enzo says he's not boastful, sure he is the first acknowledge his baseball's skills and doesn't deny them. But at the same time he keeps being very humble. A while ago, he's been told stamina is one of the most important things for a pitcher; since then how many times we've seen him running, and running, and running? That's why the team (as the coach said when they were in the mountains) designated him as "ace" and relies on him a lot, because he fights hard. In episode 24, because of the rainy season, the daily training was impossible, he could have slacked off, instead he went running in the rain, alone.
Everyone in the Tsukishima family loves him, Wakaba loved him as a person, Momiji as a big brother, Ichiyo as a little brother, Aoba ... well let's say she loves him in her own way for the moment, the father as a son. You can easily tell he's more at home when he's at Clover, than when he's in his own room. This ability of being accepted so well by other people is something who only belongs to a great person, such as Kou.

I also'd like to spend two lines about his voice actor, Irino Miyu, whom I think is doing a fantastic job with him. His tone and his pauses for Kou's moods are just perfect, to the extent I couldn't really imagine any other way of depicting him. The moment in which I understood he was really great, was in episode 1 from about 20:10 onwards, when Kou went to the festival and said to the big man "Hey, sir" "What should I do now?". And later, at the end of the episode "I get it, it's not hard at all, I just have to cry". Usually they get a different voice actor, most of the times a female, to dub the child counterpart of a teenage male character. In this case, Irino Miyu did the job himself. Nailing it perfectly.

[The Rumblefish]

Now a grown up Kou keeps buying Wakaba birthday presents every year, following the list, but no one knows about it, he just does it silently in perfect Kou-style.

Judging by Aoba's comments in the episode when Kô is doing menial things for Risa in order to buy her back the gift he needs (I think it was a teapot), she seems aware or at least suspicious that Kô is completing the list. In ep24, Akaichi also seems aware or at least suspicious about the pattern; he openly notices that any spending of money and attending of party with friends suddenly become problems for about 24 hours.

What is true is that Kô never talks about it to anyone. He is a very different type from usual Adachi leads; much more mature and calmer in many ways (Adachi's other leads often display similar patterns but later in their character development). Actually almost all kids in Cross Game look way above their age; even Momiji sometimes acts rather uncharacteristically for a young kid. Although I would suppose losing your sister tends to have you reflect on things a bit more than your class comrades.

Regarding this list completion stuff, I have a strong suspicion about one specific detail but I'll mention it in the manga thread. Not a spoiler or anything but I prefer to be careful since it could eventually be misunderstood here.

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by The Rumblefish

What is true is that Kô never talks about it to anyone.

That's what I meant, he's acting in the shadows. It's not really a secret, but it's not something the others should know either. In episode 12 Aoba learned about the whole Risa thing from some friends who'd seen Kou in that store. Akaishi just noticed Kou becomes strange around the time of the year corresponding to Wakaba's birthday (which is also his own birthday by the way). He might have left some clues here and there, but certainly unintentionally, and I'm quite sure nobody ever saw the card box containing all the presents from 12 to 17 years.

All of this fits perfectly the description given by Azuma in the last episode: "He does seems usually unreliable, but..." "... he's too much of a mistery".

[Willen]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

That's what I meant, he's acting in the shadows. It's not really a secret, but it's not something the others should know either. In episode 12 Aoba learned about the whole Risa thing from some friends who'd seen Kou in that store.

I agree with The Rumblefish that Aoba either knows or suspects Kou is completing Wakaba's gift list. She knows of its existence, although I doubt she remembers specifically what is on there. Her comment in episode 12, "This is Waka-chan's birthday and yet he..." leads me to believe that she expects him to be doing something for Wakaba on that day instead of following Risa around like that.

Of course, I could be wrong and she's just mad that it seems that Kou had forgotten about Wakaba and is chasing the unpleasant Risa the whole day like a puppy for some Senda-like reason. And it only hits her after her friends tell her about the encounter at the store that Kou is buying something off Wakaba's list.

At any rate, episode 24 was great. Probably only second to episode 1 so far.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Willen

I agree with The Rumblefish that Aoba either knows or suspects Kou is completing Wakaba's gift list. She knows of its existence, although I doubt she remembers specifically what is on there.

I agree that she at least suspects what he's doing. Even if she does remember the whole list (though I wouldn't put it past anyone to remember only the last item on the list) the only indication she would have had that it was "that" list is when her friends pass by and mention specifically what Ko was after. He certainly isn't telling her and if she doesn't actually know what he's buying with the money she couldn't know for sure even if she knew exactly what was on the list.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Why is he completing that list anyway? No sane person would do something like that. Kou doesn't seem like he is interested in Wakaba as a lover anyway.

"Oh it's my birthday. What better way to spend it other than to get a gift for my dead friend who I will no longer see, have no use for such things and is already 6 feet under".

Of course, there will be something in store or something about this in the future episodes. This kind of action will most likely have some kind of repercussion with Kou's love life in the future. It will most likely make Aoba jealous and make her feel very insecure. Aoba will be like-

"Kou's doing this for Wakaba. Guess I cannot really compare myself to my sister cause she is too perfect and everybody loves her while I'm being Emo about baseball and now I'm going to be Emo about this too".

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Why is he completing that list anyway? No sane person would do something like that. Kou doesn't seem like he is interested in Wakaba as a lover anyway.

"Oh it's my birthday. What better way to spend it other than to get a gift for my dead friend who I will no longer see, have no use for such things and is already 6 feet under".

Of course, there will be something in store or something about this in the future episodes. This kind of action will most likely have some kind of repercussion with Kou's love life in the future. It will most likely make Aoba jealous and make her feel very insecure. Aoba will be like-

"Kou's doing this for Wakaba. Guess I cannot really compare myself to my sister cause she is too perfect and everybody loves her while I'm being Emo about baseball and now I'm going to be Emo about this too".

You'd actually be surprised how many perfectly sane people still do things for the sake of the dead. Plus, I highly doubt Aoba's anywhere near jealous (at least for the moment), considering she seems to respect Kou's personal ways in honoring Wakaba's death and memory.

Also, does anyone remember what gifts were on Wakaba's list for her 18th and 21st birthdays? Since these birthdates tend to be important the gifts on those dates might be special too.