Macross - Music discussion (Part 1, pre-Delta)

[vision33r]

I hope people reading this forum and these threads.. if you downloaded the Macross songs, OST, etc.. If you really love Macross, do the right thing by supporting the artists and order your copy of the OST.

IF you can't find it locally, CDjapan is a good place to do so.

Macross while popular, not hugely as popular as other animes like Gundam or Code Geass that gets domestic fanbase support.

I ordered my copy just like I've owned virtually all of Macross soundtracks from every series.

[.Mero]

Ordered mine at yesasia ^^

off topic: also preordered the revoltek YF-19... the flesh is weak

[vision33r]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

If anyone's interested I just hit up a full review of the OST.

Yes overall I felt it was about a 7.5/10 on the overall scale, which is somewhere between good and very good. I found myself liking the Megumi Nakajima songs and the orchestral pieces while not so much liking the May n' (or whatever her name is) and more synthesized sounding bits. Maybe the next OST will offer something a little more powerful and worth of all time greatness, but somehow I doubt it. It takes a lot for me to consider an OST an all time fave, and Macross Frontier's just isn't shaping up like that.

I read your reviews, I respect your opinions but I don't think your ratings are consistent and fair.

From what I gather in your reviews, you liked good music arrangements but didn't like the ones that are actually much more technical for the singer to sing.

For example you gave 10/10 for Ranka's version of "What about my star" which happens to me to be the least technical song for the singer. That song is all about the arrangement rather than the singer's abilities. You can put any other angelic voice singer like Hirano Aya or even Sakamoto Maya in there and it would sound great.

From my perspective, Nakajima haven't really shined in any of the songs she sang. Her vocal range is very limiting and she relied on her innocent voice and the melody to carry her. Unlike May'n who could carry a song on her own if she was just singing Acapella.

Again, the rating on Triangular is a very biased one at best. The song sang by Sakamoto Maya is a pretty impressive one given that she has the vocals and the pitch quality to sing the song. It is a pretty unique song if you compare to her other songs. Although I'm not a huge fan of the song I think it is much more deserving than a 1.5/10 rating that you gave, obviously the sales charts disagrees with this as well.

You gave 9.5/10 to "Choujikuu Hanten Nyan-Nyan" by Ranka, where really isn't a complete song just a little melody she sings. How is this justifiable compare to a full commercial quality song like Triangular which you gave 1.5/10?

Again, I respect your personal preferences but from a scoring perspective, it is just really off..

[falloutgal]

Originally Posted by thr

If a Yoko Kanno score is great or not mostly depends on her "inspirational" material. For "The Target" credit should be given to David Arnold's "Independence Day." Of course there's also the "nod" to Hans Zimmer's "Pirates of the Caribbean" theme in "Big Boys" and at the end of "Tally Ho!". At least these two are blatantly obvious.

Exactly what I thought when I heard "Big Boys" - not a nod, more like a direct rip of Pirates... I'm not particularly impressed by the BGM, it mostly just sounds like something else. I keep thinking, "Ooh, what's that remind me of?"... They work fine as BGM, but I don't think I'll be listening often as standalone tracks.

The vocal songs are great on the other hand. I like the full version of Aimo a lot (and the carrots song for some reason ^_^). And all the May'n tracks kickass.

Still waiting for Deculture version of DYRL ^_^ Possibly my favourite version of the song so far out of all the Macross singers who have covered it...!! Getting ready to be slapped silly by people who will argue otherwise...

[U<3Anime]

Can't stop listening to OPPAI MASUTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! (What bout my star @forma)

and Aimo long bird ver

[CaptGloval]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Incidentally that line, translated from latin, means "Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant them rest."

If you translate it instead to "...grant us peace," the profundity is raised, or made more obvious IMO.

Originally Posted by vision33r

Again, the rating on Triangular is a very biased one at best. The song sang by Sakamoto Maya is a pretty impressive one given that she has the vocals and the pitch quality to sing the song. It is a pretty unique song if you compare to her other songs. Although I'm not a huge fan of the song I think it is much more deserving than a 1.5/10 rating that you gave, obviously the sales charts disagrees with this as well.

I haven't seen any official sheet music yet, but it seems Triangler starts with the chord F and thus is in the key of F, symbolic much.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Watched on their own, the songs aren't as epic.

I cannot say I share your point of view. Being a fan of classical music, and military marching music, I take the 'pieces' for what they are. None of which is accompanied by visual material. Most of the time, you just have to imagine it yourself.

And military marches in general are background music. Those 18th ~ 19th century pieces (Hohenfriedberger Marsch, The British Grenadiers to name a few), were meant to be background material. Still, nice tunes.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

It was okay at first, but after a while I get tired of "Who are you going to kiss, me or that girl~" and substitute it for hot blooded GAR (JAM project) or the insane mad guitar skills of Dragonforce: "Through the fire and the flames we carry on!" (Through the Fire and the Flames); "For victory we ride, FURY OF THE STORM!!!" ("Fury of the Storm")

I just friggin skip em.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...you aren't from Kota Kinabalu and from IS CB1 Yr 2003, are you, Tak? Because you just sounded like WCW, a guy I know.

Not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult Although I am certain you don't know me in person.

- Tak

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

If you translate it instead to "...grant us peace," the profundity is raised, or made more obvious IMO.

That's true, but peace in latin is "pacem", and requiem does tend to carry enternal rest connotations - hence why in the Catholic church, a funeral service is also called a requiem mass. *shrugs* If the line is "Grant us eternal peace," it would read "Dona eis pacem."

Uh yeah, I forgot that eis means eternal. The dangers of posting after coming home from night shift.

I haven't seen any official sheet music yet, but it seems Triangler starts with the chord F and thus is in the key of F, symbolic much.

What do you mean it's not symbolic?

Originally Posted by Tak

I cannot say I share your point of view. Being a fan of classical music, and military marching music, I take the 'pieces' for what they are. None of which is accompanied by visual material. Most of the time, you just have to imagine it yourself.

And military marches in general are background music. Those 18th ~ 19th century pieces (Hohenfriedberger Marsch, The British Grenadiers to name a few), were meant to be background material. Still, nice tunes.

I'll have to take your word for it; I haven't really listened to much classical or marches; about the only march I've listened to has been Semper Fi. But then again, marches are a different kettle of fish, IMO; the purpose of a march is to get you pumped up to march long distances and not feel so tired, which is somewhat different from an anime BGM which is used in conjuction with a scene to set mood and tone.

I just friggin skip em.

I used to have Triangular in my PSP's playlist but got rid of it for the aforementioned songs.

Not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult Although I am certain you don't know me in person.

I have no idea myself if it's a compliment or an insult WCW's meme/catch phrase was "I don't believe!", so I was wondering if you were the same guy. The letters and stuff will only make sense to someone like USB500, who's also from Kota Kinabalu.

[Westlo]

Aside from the very high pitch part in the chorus I really have no problems with Triangler... well apart from it not being anywhere near as good as a Kanno and Maaya track should be. I like every other proper song on the OST more than it by a lot except for Aimo. Aimo just doesn't do anything for me... but I adore the bird man version of it.... 1:42 onwards for the bir man version is... magical... classic Kanno.

Second day sales in for the Frontier OST, 9235, so 19k after 2 days, on track for 60-70k this week if the sales keep up which is amazingly good for an anime ost. Mayn's single has been rank 26 and 24 on the daily chart, slipped big as expected once the OST came out since both songs are on the OST as well.

[SymphonicRain]

I concur with some posters that Maaya X Kanno's work on the older titles are far much more superior with Macross.

I personally feel that her best song so far is Record of Lodoss War's OST: Kiseki No Umi with Hemisphere running second. It impacted me so greatly that I was inspired to create one of my successful characters for in Neverwinter Nights role playing server.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by vision33r

I read your reviews, I respect your opinions but I don't think your ratings are consistent and fair.

From what I gather in your reviews, you liked good music arrangements but didn't like the ones that are actually much more technical for the singer to sing.

For example you gave 10/10 for Ranka's version of "What about my star" which happens to me to be the least technical song for the singer. That song is all about the arrangement rather than the singer's abilities. You can put any other angelic voice singer like Hirano Aya or even Sakamoto Maya in there and it would sound great.

From my perspective, Nakajima haven't really shined in any of the songs she sang. Her vocal range is very limiting and she relied on her innocent voice and the melody to carry her. Unlike May'n who could carry a song on her own if she was just singing Acapella.

Again, the rating on Triangular is a very biased one at best. The song sang by Sakamoto Maya is a pretty impressive one given that she has the vocals and the pitch quality to sing the song. It is a pretty unique song if you compare to her other songs. Although I'm not a huge fan of the song I think it is much more deserving than a 1.5/10 rating that you gave, obviously the sales charts disagrees with this as well.

You gave 9.5/10 to "Choujikuu Hanten Nyan-Nyan" by Ranka, where really isn't a complete song just a little melody she sings. How is this justifiable compare to a full commercial quality song like Triangular which you gave 1.5/10?

Again, I respect your personal preferences but from a scoring perspective, it is just really off..

I gauge on personal enjoyability, but I will say I find Megumi Nakajima's singing far more enjoyable then anything I've ever heard from Aya Hirano. Angelic voiced singer is the last thing I would use to describe her style.

I find that what Nakajima lacks in experience she makes up for in heart and it really comes through compared to the more overproduced sounding May N' songs. I don't like that whiny sound in her voice at all. It's enjoyability that is key for me and I really don't care much if it's more technical or not if I don't like listening to it. Though I will even say that I find the exact opposite of what you do with Nakajima shining more through vocal talent in my eyes than May N' who's songs all seem to be carried by the background music. I mean Aimo is pretty darn A Capella if you ask me versus something like What Bout My Star (Sheryl On Stage).

Likewise I think that Maaya Sakamoto is way too pitchy in Triangler to the point where it actually hurst my ears and makes it extremely unenjoyable to listen too, hence an extremely low score to show my personal disproval. I will agree that it's a pretty unique song compared to her other ones in that her other songs I've heard are actually incredibly enjoyable and not just by comparison. Also I really don't care at all what the sales charts have to say given that the Japanese media markets are driven by name and brand power in a way that would make American's blush. The reason it sells well has little to do with the overall quality so much as it does with the names Maaya Sakamoto, Yoko Kanno and Macross being behind it. It's an absolutely meaningless statistic to me and does nothing to change the fact that I don't enjoy the song at all.

And regarding Choujikuu Hanten Nyan-Nyan, have you considered that it's simple unique charm (as far as tunes I've heard in anime go) might be more enjoyable to me then a commerically produced opening that I could arguably here anywhere in any sort of anime?

[Eurys]

"Raging fanboys" do gauge OST on personal enjoyability too, just saying XD

Well, I guess it will be labelled as fanboyism and not an "actual review", but I praise Yoko Kanno for making me enjoy so many pop songs
My favorite ones are Diamond Crevasse, Aimo, Infinity and Welcome to my fc's night.
Only songs I dislike are "What bout my star" (both versions) and "Triangler".
BGMs are enjoyable, but nothing stellar.
I have no issues at all with May'n's tone, which seems to bother some people here, but it's a matter of taste so there's no point in debating about it.
So in my opinion, it's a great OST that perfectly fits the Macross Frontier universe (though I would still rank a lot of YK's works as superior).

[Wild Goose]

The internet. Serious business. Especially with fanboys

Well, general thoughts:

Yoko Kanno has been rather hit and miss with me. IMO her stuff really needs to be used with the scene and doesn't quite standalone by itself. Not too keen on either versions of WHat about my Star, though May'n's version has a eurobeat-ish vibe to it. Aimo is Nakajima singing Yoko's gibberish pseudo-french mixed with some Japanese and is listenable, but it hasn't really rubbed off on me.

Then again it takes a while for me to warm up to music...

Triangular is deleted from my PSP, which should say something about how I feel about it.

On the other hand I like the SMS-themed songs: Big Boys, Private Army and SMS no Uta. THe last is always good for laughs And I suppose it can be argued I really like Private Army since I found myself tapping out the beat in sync with the song, on my steering wheel. Owie my red hands.

Nakajima does have heart and a voice that I could listen to over and over, that's for sure.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I gauge on personal enjoyability, but I will say I find Megumi Nakajima's singing far more enjoyable then anything I've ever heard from Aya Hirano. Angelic voiced singer is the last thing I would use to describe her style.

I find that what Nakajima lacks in experience she makes up for in heart and it really comes through compared to the more overproduced sounding May N' songs. I don't like that whiny sound in her voice at all. It's enjoyability that is key for me and I really don't care much if it's more technical or not if I don't like listening to it. Though I will even say that I find the exact opposite of what you do with Nakajima shining more through vocal talent in my eyes than May N' who's songs all seem to be carried by the background music. I mean Aimo is pretty darn A Capella if you ask me versus something like What Bout My Star (Sheryl On Stage).

Likewise I think that Maaya Sakamoto is way too pitchy in Triangler to the point where it actually hurst my ears and makes it extremely unenjoyable to listen too, hence an extremely low score to show my personal disproval. I will agree that it's a pretty unique song compared to her other ones in that her other songs I've heard are actually incredibly enjoyable and not just by comparison. Also I really don't care at all what the sales charts have to say given that the Japanese media markets are driven by name and brand power in a way that would make American's blush. The reason it sells well has little to do with the overall quality so much as it does with the names Maaya Sakamoto, Yoko Kanno and Macross being behind it. It's an absolutely meaningless statistic to me and does nothing to change the fact that I don't enjoy the song at all.

And regarding Choujikuu Hanten Nyan-Nyan, have you considered that it's simple unique charm (as far as tunes I've heard in anime go) might be more enjoyable to me then a commerically produced opening that I could arguably here anywhere in any sort of anime?

I think the issue raised has more to do with the distinction between music that is pleasing on a personal level and music that is strong on a technical level. When you try to compare the technique of two different vocalists, then you step across that somewhat blurry boundary between taste and aesthetics. Ideally, the two approaches should not be used interchangeably.

Aimo (which, for some reason, strikes me as oddly reminiscent of "Scarborough Fair") isn't a technically difficult song by any means. The rhythm is slow, simple and consistant, there isn't a significant variation in pitch, and the lyrics seem to be made up almost entirely of nice long vowel sounds (which is what produces that 'pure' sound to begin with). The fact that it's sung a cappella makes it even better; there's so much freedom in that to add stylistic variations to this piece, which is why the song felt underutilized. I know that the song was intentionally supposed to be simple, but as it's presented, the song wouldn't lose anything at all if the vocals were replaced by an appropriate choice of woodwind. While it is easy on the ears, it isn't really a song that showcases Nakajima's ability.

'What about my star @ Folmo' does a much better job of this, but a lot of the initial build up and energy comes from the fact the instruments are played to more of a rock feel than a pop feel. In addition, much of the vocal variation in the song arises from the interweaving of May'n and Nakajima's voices. The cut and paste version in episode five sounds much more tame, by comparison.

Overall, I don't think that there's enough material to do a comparison, yet.

That Nyan Nyan "song" is just the ten second line from episode one. It actually works better as an endlessly looping video; that way you don't have to deal with the five or so seconds of dead air at the end of the track.

Aren't all openings commercially produced? Also, wasn't Nyan Nyan commercially produced as well (not to mention being a jingle for a commercial in the anime)? I know that wasn't the focus of your point, but I couldn't help but notice the subtext.

[vision33r]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I gauge on personal enjoyability, but I will say I find Megumi Nakajima's singing far more enjoyable then anything I've ever heard from Aya Hirano. Angelic voiced singer is the last thing I would use to describe her style.

I find that what Nakajima lacks in experience she makes up for in heart and it really comes through compared to the more overproduced sounding May N' songs. I don't like that whiny sound in her voice at all. It's enjoyability that is key for me and I really don't care much if it's more technical or not if I don't like listening to it. Though I will even say that I find the exact opposite of what you do with Nakajima shining more through vocal talent in my eyes than May N' who's songs all seem to be carried by the background music. I mean Aimo is pretty darn A Capella if you ask me versus something like What Bout My Star (Sheryl On Stage).

Nakajima's voice is very sweet, the innocent type. That's probably what we enjoy about listening to her singing. While May'n, we hear a powerful and sultry voice, the kind that exudes confident and experience.

I think Nakajima has sang pretty "safe" songs, if we were to go by Simon Cowell's standards. They weren't exactly songs that would blow people away.

While May'n, I can see she has far greater potential in her voice, the technicality, pitch transitions are pretty good. She and other Japanese singers all have "Engrish" problems, when they sing English words, they do appear whiney are you based the "whiny" sounds on Engrish, cause here voice is very rich, in fact the person with the "whiny" voice is Nakajima. Listen to that 10 sec song "Chou Jikuu Hanten" that is the definition of a "whiny" sounding voice. If May'n is consider whiny, we have a complete 180 in hearing.

Likewise I think that Maaya Sakamoto is way too pitchy in Triangler to the point where it actually hurst my ears and makes it extremely unenjoyable to listen too,
hence an extremely low score to show my personal disproval.

Maybe, it doesn't occur to you, but her pitch transitions in Triangular was done pretty "stylishly" if Nakajima would do that she would lose it. This where experience comes in, Mariah Carey does it all the time, she's the expert at pitch transitions. Probably too fast for you to hear it but Maya did a pretty good pitch transition to "sing with the melody."

Again, I think it's a matter of listening preferences but from a technical POV, Sakamoto Maya did a pretty good job at pitch control and stayed with the melody. No commercial released songs like these gets released if the producer detects pitch problems, they go through many many takes to get it perfect, so you're conclusion about pitch problem is more personal taste.

I will agree that it's a pretty unique song compared to her other ones in that her other songs I've heard are actually incredibly enjoyable and not just by comparison. Also I really don't care at all what the sales charts have to say given that the Japanese media markets are driven by name and brand power in a way that would make American's blush.

I think many people including myself gets fixated on a certain song structure, many Jpop songs are very fixed on having the same type of beat sequences, melody, and singing. This song did well for Sakamoto Maya because it was different and the Japanese listeners are starting to get tired of repetitive Jpop songs, so here we have a pretty refreshing song.

The reason it sells well has little to do with the overall quality so much as it does with the names Maaya Sakamoto, Yoko Kanno and Macross being behind it. It's an absolutely meaningless statistic to me and does nothing to change the fact that I don't enjoy the song at all.

Some truth to that, but for mainstream pop charts, there are audiences that buys music that have no clue who produces it nor which anime it's from. Even in Japan, anime music is consider geeky.

And regarding Choujikuu Hanten Nyan-Nyan, have you considered that it's simple unique charm (as far as tunes I've heard in anime go) might be more enjoyable to me then a commerically produced opening that I could arguably here anywhere in any sort of anime?

Yes, it can be a fun little song. But to put the weight of 10 secs and give it that high a mark, I struggle to believe it can out-score songs that probably took weeks or months for Yoko Kanno to produce and write, give credit where it's due.

If the song go past 10 secs, you probably would get tired of hearing the chorus over and over.

My point is, if you want visibility and people to not take your reviews with a grain of salt, then you should score and rate the songs more objectively. All of us we love/hate certain songs and singers but to gain the trust of others as a review, one must be objective weigh the song from every angle.

[Westlo]

A poster from Ykfan posted up some Kanno OST figures on the gabrielarobin site, looks like these were Kanno's best selling OST for the release week.

14 COWBOY BEBOP Knockin’on heaven’s dor O.S.T FUTURE BULES 08/29 24200
20 COWBOY BEBOP originalsoundtrack3 BLUE 05/01 17080

Now Frontier did 10,304 day 1, 9,235 day 2 and on day 3 she's sold 5132 and kept the #3 ranking for that day. So she just about outdid her previous best first week today in just 3 days.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by vision33r

Nakajima's voice is very sweet, the innocent type. That's probably what we enjoy about listening to her singing. While May'n, we hear a powerful and sultry voice, the kind that exudes confident and experience.

I think Nakajima has sang pretty "safe" songs, if we were to go by Simon Cowell's standards. They weren't exactly songs that would blow people away.

While May'n, I can see she has far greater potential in her voice, the technicality, pitch transitions are pretty good. She and other Japanese singers all have "Engrish" problems, when they sing English words, they do appear whiney are you based the "whiny" sounds on Engrish, cause here voice is very rich, in fact the person with the "whiny" voice is Nakajima. Listen to that 10 sec song "Chou Jikuu Hanten" that is the definition of a "whiny" sounding voice. If May'n is consider whiny, we have a complete 180 in hearing.

Sultry? I don't find May'n's voice SULTRY yet... but she does do a decent job with making it very energetic, when given the right songs (Don't Be Late, Fanclub's Night) or with the more acoustic songs when not overprocessed (Diamond Crevasse). For potential, I don't think either her or Nakajima have hit theirs... but they sound pretty good here, IMO, for the roles they're playing - pop star versus starting crooner.

Maaya Sakamoto does a fairly good job with Triangler, even if it's not everyone's cup of tea - as you pointed out, going and changing pitch is pretty difficult, and is something Mariah Carey's famed for. IIRC, Sir Andrew Lloyd-Webber loves doing this to his singers.... which is why it's damned hard to sign anything he's had a hand in. Sakamoto successfully jumped from the almost-whiny high to a lower register in the following verse.

[Ottocycle]

I'll be going off the current discussion, but there was an announcement of a live concert by Nakajima Megumi and May'n at the end of episode 10. The emcees apparently are Nakamura Yuuichi(Alto) and Kamiya Hiroshi(Michael), and it will take place on 27th of July.

Looks like they're cashing in on the Macross music phenomenon pretty well, as well as this being a preview of May'n performance during Animelo '08.

And back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by humbug23

I'll be going off the current discussion, but there was an announcement of a live concert by Nakajima Megumi and May'n at the end of episode 10. The emcees apparently are Nakamura Yuuichi(Alto) and Kamiya Hiroshi(Michael), and it will take place on 27th of July.

Looks like they're cashing in on the Macross music phenomenon pretty well, as well as this being a preview of May'n performance during Animelo '08.

And back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

... given how the first series started Mari IIijima off, when she was just beginning her own career as a singer/songwriter... it's almost tradition to cash in on the music phenomenon, isn't it?

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

... given how the first series started Mari Iijima off, when she was just beginning her own career as a singer/songwriter... it's almost tradition to cash in on the music phenomenon, isn't it?

Maybe 'perfect marketing sense' would do better for the logical ones out there instead of tradition.

That said, I have heard favourable reviews of May'n's live performances, and given the seemingly unadulterated nature of the Ranka tracks on the OST, I look forward to watching a DVD of the concert to see what they're truly made of.