Accel World - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Kaioshin Sama]

Welp this is about where I expected this thread to end up sadly enough when I made that first post. People still taking their animus way to seriously...

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Ah the rage. I expected it.

Haru is practically useless if KYH is not around to back him up. He is returning into his old self which he tried to change but ended up back again. His hopeless

I take it this forum is basically going to be nonstop whining and 4chan style commentary for at least the rest of the arc because any time the main character in a show isn't super macho man or has a moment of self-doubt or pity that means the show is terrible and all other instances can safely be disregarded. Amazing something like Evangelion ever became as popular as it did....

[supermegasonic]

it really does suck when the one good thing you know you have gets taken away from you.
chiyu and haru basically got raped by nomi.
but yea surprisingly the biker guy is a LOT cooler than i thought he was before. the way he interacted with haru was just something else, it was even during a match too.

[Markerlight]

My thoughts on this episode can be summed up by a Homer Simpson quote: "Urge to kill rising". Nomi is a really aggravating character, but Haru's actions just make everything that much worse. You would think a guy who has supposedly played a lot of video games would have experienced a (more or less) level drain before. Or some kind of character set back, or account hack. And not telling Taku was just plain dumb.

[Reckoner]

I can understand why this arc is frustrating for so many people, but it actually has a point and is useful for establishing some important characterization for Haru in particular. Up until now he's had no self confidence in the real world and he placed so much importance on his abilities in AW, that he was special because of his aviation ability and the constant touting of kuroyukihime that he would be one to change that world. Without his wings, he feels useless and that he can no longer do anything. His confidence is gone, and that is why he has been reduced to this pathetic state.

But this arc seems about him learning to gain more self confidence, and to stand up on its own without relying on kuroyukihime too much. I think this is important, even if the process is not the most terribly pleasing of the show thus far.

It's not one of the show's strongest arcs thus far by any means, but it's still purposeful and I think still entertaining to a degree. I don't hate these episodes, think the rage is over reactionary, and I think we have the LN fans to blame for poisoning the well here.

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by Markerlight

My thoughts on this episode can be summed up by a Homer Simpson quote: "Urge to kill rising". Nomi is a really aggravating character, but Haru's actions just make everything that much worse. You would think a guy who has supposedly played a lot of video games would have experienced a (more or less) level drain before. Or some kind of character set back, or account hack. And not telling Taku was just plain dumb.

What Haru experiences is worse than a account hack. With lost items or levels you can get them back, but you can't get back abilities.
For him, with AW relying on using special attacks, it'd somewhat be equivalent with losing the ability to use guns (his special attack 'Wings') in Counter Strike, having to resort to grenades&knifes.

[Fenrir_valindri]

People complaining about an emotionally damaged teenager being "emo" when he has lost something incredibly vital to him to a total douchebag is nonsensical to me.

I enjoyed the episode for what it was, the "fall" of the protagonist against the arc's villain. It also brought Ash Roller back into the story, and I was really interested in that particular Burst Linker.

Sky Raker looks to really be something special, can't wait to see more of her and how she will help Silver Crow.

[GundamZZ]

My reaction is that...why the bus is running on wheels? They are suppose to have bus running on ground effect already. Then, who knows? The futurists from thirty years ago expected we would have flying car now.

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[molitar]

I am really getting sick and fed up with Haruyuki. He needs to be replaced. Fine you lost your damn wings.. but not to tell your best friend and your Brain Burst parent letting them be setup to happen to them! Now you have just become beyond pathetic! Let Chiyuri be victimized by him in real life! He is beyond pathetic!

[monir]

I thought the reaction in the thread from the fans are appropriate from the context of this episode. If we break down our hero, this is what he spells: physically unattractive, bullied, severe lack of self-esteem, and almost always have a defensive whiny/about-to-cry voice when he is trying to speak to someone. To keep things in perspective, character like Haru isn't uncommon. What is uncommon and unnatural, however, the way people around him receives him positively which, in turn, seem to have helped him "change". From the help of those people around him, he seemed to have gained mental fortitude to overcome self-loathing, pursued and renewed friendship, was willing to sacrifice himself to save the girl, and won over the loli-midget through an attitude of doggedness and self-reliant approach to problem solving. He showed ruthless desperation when he fought Cyan Pile and when he looked to save Kuroyuki. In light of all of this, the previous 13 episodes were seeming to hint (in a rather unconvincing fashion at times) that Haru has changed. And then... the most of episode 14 undo virtually every progress Haru seem to have made.

So I kind of understand why fans aren't buying into this episode so readily. Haru was back being the fat, whiny little boy who unnaturally lost all of his cool and allowed someone beneath him (seemingly) trap him. The episode pretty much undermined all the trial he was put into to get to where he was at. It boggles the mind. Hence, the reaction that follows in the thread.

[U<3Anime]

Thank god, Ash showed up because I didn't know how much angst I could take from Haru. Hopefully, Ash and Sky Lake helps Haru get back up his feet ASAP!!! I really don't want to see anymore whining.

Man, when they went up that mountain, I almost thought they were going to see King Kai.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by monir

I thought the reaction in the thread from the fans are appropriate from the context of this episode. If we break down our hero, this is what he spells: physically unattractive, bullied, severe lack of self-esteem, and almost always have a defensive whiny/about-to-cry voice when he is trying to speak to someone. To keep things in perspective, character like Haru isn't uncommon. What is uncommon and unnatural, however, the way people around him receives him positively which, in turn, seem to have helped him "change". From the help of those people around him, he seemed to have gained mental fortitude to overcome self-loathing, pursued and renewed friendship, was willing to sacrifice himself to save the girl, and won over the loli-midget through an attitude of doggedness and self-reliant approach to problem solving. He showed ruthless desperation when he fought Cyan Pile and when he looked to save Kuroyuki. In light of all of this, the previous 13 episodes were seeming to hint (in a rather unconvincing fashion at times) that Haru has changed. And then... the most of episode 14 undo virtually every progress Haru seem to have made.

So I kind of understand why fans aren't buying into this episode so readily. Haru was back being the fat, whiny little boy who unnaturally lost all of his cool and allowed someone beneath him (seemingly) trap him. The episode pretty much undermined all the trial he was put into to get to where he was at. It boggles the mind. Hence, the reaction that follows in the thread.

I think people are missing the point of the wings and how they essentially symbolize Haru's confidence, when he got them is when he started to change and gain confidence, having them taken away is the shock that has led to this regression, thus he's going to have to get them back in order to move forward again and learn to fight without them as well in order to do so which will probably lead to newfound and less shaky confidence. Looking at it that way and noting how the episode goes out of it's way to illustrate the importance of the wings as it did I think it makes perfect sense in context as to why Haru took the turn he did.

A lot of people seem to have missed that in their rage to condemn him and the course of the story arc. I mean I get why people are a little frustrated and I am too, but in a way that is more like understanding and sharing in the characters frustration rather than being frustrated at him which is I think what was intended.

[XxSleepyxX]

Ash roller becomes Silver Crow's eternal rival or what not. Volume three of the series is the only part you'll hate about Accel World, but its need to be done. In the end you'll see the reasoning behind everything. Its not all that bad, but you'll probably get mad in the end for what happened.

[KLGChaos]

The problem isn't even really Haru's lack of self-esteem. Hell, I used to be the poster child for low self-esteem and depression, but I never once let it hold me down. Haru's biggest problem can be summed up in two words: big ego. Yes, it is possible to have a low self-esteem and a big ego at the same time. Actually, in most cases of the "emo teen", this is exactly what it is.

You've got a kid who's been picked on all his life and for some reason or another, feels the world owes him something because of it. When it doesn't happen, he goes into a spiraling depression. Haruyuki is a classic case of it. He makes big speeches about protecting Kuroyukihime's dream, but as soon as hardship comes, he gives up. He did it against the Red King. He did it again here.

Another sign is the way he doesn't believe his friends, no matter what they do. No matter how much KYH assure him that she loves only him, he still sees her as pitying him and doesn't believe it. His ego won't allow him to. When things don't go his way, he breaks down. When his friends try to help him, he automatically sees it as pity and he lashes out. And maybe it is pity.

His friends aren't helping him, either. Instead of giving into his "woe is me" tantrums, they need to stop enabling him. They need to help him realize that he needs to grow up, get over himself and realize the world doesn't revolve around his fat ass. They need to give him a swift kick in the nuts. Or rush him to a psychiatrist ASAP as he's got a lot more than self-esteem issues going on. He's got Borderline Personality disorder.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

The problem isn't even really Haru's lack of self-esteem. Hell, I used to be the poster child for low self-esteem and depression, but I never once let it hold me down. Haru's biggest problem can be summed up in two words: big ego. Yes, it is possible to have a low self-esteem and a big ego at the same time. Actually, in most cases of the "emo teen", this is exactly what it is.

You've got a kid who's been picked on all his life and for some reason or another, feels the world owes him something because of it. When it doesn't happen, he goes into a spiraling depression. Haruyuki is a classic case of it. He makes big speeches about protecting Kuroyukihime's dream, but as soon as hardship comes, he gives up. He did it against the Red King. He did it again here.

Another sign is the way he doesn't believe his friends, no matter what they do. No matter how much KYH assure him that she loves only him, he still sees her as pitying him and doesn't believe it. His ego won't allow him to. When things don't go his way, he breaks down. When his friends try to help him, he automatically sees it as pity and he lashes out. And maybe it is pity.

His friends aren't helping him, either. Instead of giving into his "woe is me" tantrums, they need to stop enabling him. They need to help him realize that he needs to grow up, get over himself and realize the world doesn't revolve around his fat ass. They need to give him a swift kick in the nuts. Or rush him to a psychiatrist ASAP as he's got a lot more than self-esteem issues going on. He's got Borderline Personality disorder.

See this is true, it is a pretty classic case and it's definitely a personality flaw that crops up in his gaming life. It takes an inflated ego as well as poor self-esteem to put that much stock in his aviation ability and the fact that he could have won if he hadn't dawdled around and just finished Noumi while he had the advantage shows that his ego got in the way. To me it seems almost fair punishment that he should be stripped of them for relying on and taking a little too much pride in them. There's growth to be had in this in more than a few ways.

As for his friends, the way I see it they aren't enabling him at all so much as trying to support him even as they're going through periods of doubt. Taku punched him in the face and was clearly not happy that he wouldn't talk to Chiyuri about what happened and try to calm her down and Chiyuri is obviously having problems herself. I dunno, I just don't see how these developments are bad and make the show poorly written because the characters are at a low point. Honestly I think it makes them kind of interested. I'd be more upset if I couldn't see where it all was coming from, but as I've said I see all the connections, character reasonings and their reactions to things quite clearly and it's honestly pretty consistent with how I've come to see them all up to this point.

Originally Posted by XxSleepyxX

Ash roller becomes Silver Crow's eternal rival or what not. Volume three of the series is the only part you'll hate about Accel World, but its need to be done. In the end you'll see the reasoning behind everything. Its not all that bad, but you'll probably get mad in the end for what happened.

Honestly I don't even think I'll need to wait to till the end as I'm already pretty sure where this is going, it's just a matter of what happens inbetween to get there that's presenting such a huge problem for others.

[SABER60069]

While I agree Haruyuki wasn't very smart this arc and he had tons of other better options, I think it's ridiculous to be frustrated cause he doesn't have iron mentality, to him BB was another world and the source of his confidence plus he didn't seem to have a lot of self-esteem to begin with.

Taking all that from him isn't something that can be just shaked off, I wouldn't go as far as to say he has a right to be depressed but he sure has a good reason to be.

[Dark Wing]

People please this has to happen like this else Haru can never grow as a character he needs to be beaten and broken down so he can be built back up again becoming stronger then he was before. Hits the episode title "Destruction"

[molitar]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

The problem isn't even really Haru's lack of self-esteem. Hell, I used to be the poster child for low self-esteem and depression, but I never once let it hold me down. Haru's biggest problem can be summed up in two words: big ego. Yes, it is possible to have a low self-esteem and a big ego at the same time. Actually, in most cases of the "emo teen", this is exactly what it is.

You've got a kid who's been picked on all his life and for some reason or another, feels the world owes him something because of it. When it doesn't happen, he goes into a spiraling depression. Haruyuki is a classic case of it. He makes big speeches about protecting Kuroyukihime's dream, but as soon as hardship comes, he gives up. He did it against the Red King. He did it again here.

Another sign is the way he doesn't believe his friends, no matter what they do. No matter how much KYH assure him that she loves only him, he still sees her as pitying him and doesn't believe it. His ego won't allow him to. When things don't go his way, he breaks down. When his friends try to help him, he automatically sees it as pity and he lashes out. And maybe it is pity.

His friends aren't helping him, either. Instead of giving into his "woe is me" tantrums, they need to stop enabling him. They need to help him realize that he needs to grow up, get over himself and realize the world doesn't revolve around his fat ass. They need to give him a swift kick in the nuts. Or rush him to a psychiatrist ASAP as he's got a lot more than self-esteem issues going on. He's got Borderline Personality disorder.

Good one.. but friends.. it's more one sided! He gives in to Noumi and is going to let Noumi blackmail Chiyuri and scheme to do the same dirty underhand trick to Takumu and Kuroyukihime. Not only that Chiyuri is a true friend and is the type that if Noumi blackmailed her into dating him with the threat of not returning the wings to Haru she would do it. So he would even let her be blackmailed and not even tell his supposed best friend the truth. Haru doesn't know what a friend is! He doesn't deserve any friends!

My anger is not at his depression or even self-loathing but that he would betray his friends in the process which means he does not know what friends are. Guess we should of seen what a cretin he was when he knocked the food out of his supposed childhood friends hand that time. He doesn't deserve any friends as he shows here he betrays them at a drop of a pin.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by molitar

Good one.. but friends.. it's more one sided! He gives in to Noumi and is going to let Noumi blackmail Chiyuri and scheme to do the same dirty underhand trick to Takumu and Kuroyukihime. Not only that Chiyuri is a true friend and is the type that if Noumi blackmailed her into dating him with the threat of not returning the wings to Haru she would do it. So he would even let her be blackmailed and not even tell his supposed best friend the truth. Haru doesn't know what a friend is! He doesn't deserve any friends!

My anger is not at his depression or even self-loathing but that he would betray his friends in the process which means he does not know what friends are. Guess we should of seen what a cretin he was when he knocked the food out of his supposed childhood friends hand that time. He doesn't deserve any friends as he shows here he betrays them at a drop of a pin.

Yes and this is the lesson he's going to have to learn in this arc so he will be able to understand the error of his ways and come back stronger just be patient with him.

[Markerlight]

I can see from a narrative point of view why the 'wings = self esteem' aspect of Haru's flawed character needs addressing, but if you're making the viewer/reader frustrated at the character themselves, instead of with them, then you're going about it the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Awrya

What Haru experiences is worse than a account hack. With lost items or levels you can get them back, but you can't get back abilities.
For him, with AW relying on using special attacks, it'd somewhat be equivalent with losing the ability to use guns (his special attack 'Wings') in Counter Strike, having to resort to grenades&knifes.

The ability loss isn't permanent (Nomi said he could return it), so he could at least least try a few things to get it back like Chiyu's healing ability, or beating the guy. The latter would be difficult, but beating difficult things is really the point of video games. It would certainly make him feel a lot better to effectively knife kill the guy.

[Solace]

I did something I haven't done in a long time with a show I liked: skipped through half of it until it didn't suck as much. Surprise, Ash Roller arrives to make the episode sane.

Thank you Ash Roller. You saved this episode from being entirely giga stupid.

I like Haru, but not enough to sit through fifteen minutes of awful character dialogue. At times it reverted to the classic anime "parrot talk":

Where we going?
Up the hill.
Up the hill?
Yes, the hill.
Why are we going up the hill?
To see my master.
To see your master?
Yes, she's up the hill.
Why are we going up the hill to see your master?

ARRGGGHHH.