AnimeSuki Forums

getfresh · 2008-07-13, 23:16

If the admins find this thread conflicting with forum rules I have no issues with them removing it. Also if users here feel this thread is about ego, while they are welcome to their opinion and are welcome to post it here, they are none the less mistaken.

FreelanceFansubs, was originally a group that started in 2003 with the purpose of "loaning" staff to groups in need of staff to keep them going till they filled these spots themselves. I closed down the group in 2004 due to misuse of the kind act the group was preforming. I have reopened the group with a new goal. To show publicly the fansub process to whoever wishes to see.

This group is made up of fansubbers from many different walks of life, but all considerably experienced none the less. I am not saying our method is the only one used in the process of subtitling, but in general it is the foundation of fansubbing.

We will have all of our scripts (fully typeset versions) available for download. Our topic is the same as you would see in most project channels for groups that are normally hidden in secret channels. We openly discuss project status with each other as well as assignment of tasks. We have no staff channel. What you see is what we are.

This is done in hopes that other hoping to get into fansubs can get a real idea of how it works. They can first hand see how groups operate internally.

Don't expect speed sub situations from us. We all have other groups we work for, and are not into speed subbing anyways. This is not to say anything bad or good about speed subbing. We are not interested in the politics of fansubbing AT ALL. That said, please do not bring those politics into our channel.

We are also open to comments and suggestions on our process of subbing. If anyone has ideas as to ways we can better present the information or process we are all ears. This is an experiment if anything. It is done with hopes of good will and strengthened relations throughout the community.

If you are not a fansubber or only wish to bash, flame, argue, troll, etc... please do not join our channel. Do it here if you must. Please do not disturb those who actually see this as a productive helpful service.

Thank you,
getfresh

FreelanceFansubs can be found at #FLF@irc.rizon.net

DryFire · 2008-07-14, 02:59

Only scripts? Encoding's not a real job anyomore?

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 03:03

No. We have the full encoded versions up as well. Just offering the scripts as well for people to look at if they wish to see what type of code was used for typesetting, what fonts were used, how the scripts were formatted, etc... Of course we will have softsub stuff as well, but you cannot softsub extremely code heavy .ass stuff. That is what the scripts are for.

Jiyuu · 2008-07-14, 05:37

sounds like a really good idea that could help alot of people..

why not offer the encoding settings as well btw? (avisynth script x264 command line parameters etc.)

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

sounds like a really good idea that could help alot of people..

why not offer the encoding settings as well btw? (avisynth script x264 command line parameters etc.)

Mainly because I haven't talked to the encoders yet to see how they feel about it. That is a good idea, but I'm not going to force them to give out their avs's.

Jiyuu · 2008-07-14, 05:48

oh, well anyway i think this is a great idea and should help lots of people.
kinda like fansubbing school

Lynn · 2008-07-14, 05:56

wow, thats a great idea - I'm looking forward to it. The thing with the encoding scripts also sounds good. Don't know why someone should keep the avs script secret because you can't copy it 1:1. Each raw needs a different handling, doesn't it?

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

wow, thats a great idea - I'm looking forward to it. The thing with the encoding scripts also sounds good. Don't know why someone should keep the avs script secret because you can't copy it 1:1. Each raw needs a different handling, doesn't it?

I think it has more to do with their filtering techniques and ordering. I don't know myself as I'm not an encoder. But yes I agree it is a good idea, I just cannot make promises into the dept since the avs's are not created by me.

cyth · 2008-07-14, 06:33

Posting video encoding scripts is like posting your code for the first time to some elite open source community. It can turn out to be a brutal experience.

If people provided comparative screenshots or short clips from raws and final videos, posting avs scripts, notes, and their encoding processes would have more meaning. I'd certainly be intrigued to explore the world of filtering, but with the ammount of information out there it's just discouraging.

Jiyuu · 2008-07-14, 06:33

oh and i think it'll be pretty useful if you could have sessions at some specific times so you can explain stuff to a large group of people instead of explaining things over and over again every time..
thou that could be overdoing it

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 07:16

One thing I think that is kind of misunderstood is that we are not going to "train" people. We are allowing anyone to come view the process first hand as we will discuss the projects and do our staff communications in the public channel. And we will offer scripts for references and so on. But we are not going to "hold classes". We will answer questions that are asked in a polite manor when we have time. But in the end we are still a fansub group. What we are doing is more like a program author giving out his source code to the public.

As the threads title suggests. This is a service provided for fansubbers, so we expect people to be resourceful and willing to research the answers to their questions a bit before asking them. I myself, as well as anyone else in the group will not appreciate people joining and asking questions without even attempting to figure it out on their own. I find that type of situation slightly insulting.

As for the question on AVS's, I will ask the encoders today and see what they think. It may be that some have no issues with it while others do not wish to share them. Whatever the case I hope you will all understand and respect their decision(s).

Thanks
getfresh

Jiyuu · 2008-07-14, 07:31

oh, i guess i really misunderstood you on that part, sorry.
assumed that by saying you want to show people how fansub works, releasing the scripts and all that, that you will explain the technical portion of the precess as well.

well still sounds good..
oh one more thing i thought of when i read

Quote:

What we are doing is more like a program author giving out his source code to the public.

does that mean that like open source software you are giving people the permission to use those scripts for their own groups?

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 07:37

No, not as far as open source. We would rather people not use our work for their groups. The purpose of giving out all this material is for other groups to reference it for doing their own work, on DIFFERENT projects. There is no need for a group to re-sub and release what we have already done. And if they are going to do a different language sub we would appreciate they create their own scripts from scratch. Using our work would mean they are not truly subbing the series themselves, which kind of defeats the point in them even being a fansub group.

Quarkboy · 2008-07-14, 07:39

The problem with releasing avs' is that in general they wouldn't teach anyone much.

Being an effective encoder is about crafting a filter chain that works for a given raw and a given show: there's no one-size-fits-all solution to a really good encode.

Also, you aren't going to learn how to encode by analyzing avisynth files, e.g. if you take the output from yatta after fixing combing problems, you learn nothing about the skills needed to actually identify and fix the problems.

When it comes to the philosophy of the group and openness, obviously all materials should be available, but I just don't think it's really possible to learn much about encoding by looking at script files.

DontAsk · 2008-07-14, 08:44

There's always something you can pick up on, especially if the script is well commented. It takes practice and you must play around with those things yourself to really learn, but I think it's a mistake to dismiss it as useless.

It wouldn't take much effort to release those scripts anyway.

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 08:53

In the end it comes down to the encoders choice. One encoder has opted out already, and I totally respect their choice. I hope that everyone else can as well.

martino · 2008-07-14, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

The problem with releasing avs' is that in general they wouldn't teach anyone much.

Being an effective encoder is about crafting a filter chain that works for a given raw and a given show: there's no one-size-fits-all solution to a really good encode.

Also, you aren't going to learn how to encode by analyzing avisynth files.

That is true. *forces Meltingice to read*

Although quite usually a filterchain is made up of different sections, each to fix some given problem in the source, which may be useful, but not as a whole as you mentioned.

<--- Of the stance that encoding can't be taught as a whole simply because there are too many ways to achieve one task and you'd be just enforcing your way onto others.

cyth · 2008-07-14, 13:13

"Enforcing" ways onto newbies? We just want to learn a way that works.

That whole perspective belongs to someone that already knows what he's doing.

getfresh · 2008-07-14, 13:25

Since the avs issue is far too loaded of an issue from what I am seeing, I am going to have to say our group will not offer those. I can see it creating more issues than it will solve. this may be a cop out but I'd rather not turn this whole subject into a debate on an avs/encoding thread as it is one of the most minimal parts of the process in the end. Not saying encoding is this or that. Just stating it is not the main focus of this group to teach people how to encode.

Quarkboy · 2008-07-14, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by getfresh

Since the avs issue is far too loaded of an issue from what I am seeing, I am going to have to say our group will not offer those. I can see it creating more issues than it will solve. this may be a cop out but I'd rather not turn this whole subject into a debate on an avs/encoding thread as it is one of the most minimal parts of the process in the end. Not saying encoding is this or that. Just stating it is not the main focus of this group to teach people how to encode.

Do you also plan on explaining where you obtain your raws from? That's also an important step from the standpoint of full transparency.

2008-07-13, 23:16	Link #1
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	Fansub group designed for fansubbers If the admins find this thread conflicting with forum rules I have no issues with them removing it. Also if users here feel this thread is about ego, while they are welcome to their opinion and are welcome to post it here, they are none the less mistaken. FreelanceFansubs, was originally a group that started in 2003 with the purpose of "loaning" staff to groups in need of staff to keep them going till they filled these spots themselves. I closed down the group in 2004 due to misuse of the kind act the group was preforming. I have reopened the group with a new goal. To show publicly the fansub process to whoever wishes to see. This group is made up of fansubbers from many different walks of life, but all considerably experienced none the less. I am not saying our method is the only one used in the process of subtitling, but in general it is the foundation of fansubbing. We will have all of our scripts (fully typeset versions) available for download. Our topic is the same as you would see in most project channels for groups that are normally hidden in secret channels. We openly discuss project status with each other as well as assignment of tasks. We have no staff channel. What you see is what we are. This is done in hopes that other hoping to get into fansubs can get a real idea of how it works. They can first hand see how groups operate internally. Don't expect speed sub situations from us. We all have other groups we work for, and are not into speed subbing anyways. This is not to say anything bad or good about speed subbing. We are not interested in the politics of fansubbing AT ALL. That said, please do not bring those politics into our channel. We are also open to comments and suggestions on our process of subbing. If anyone has ideas as to ways we can better present the information or process we are all ears. This is an experiment if anything. It is done with hopes of good will and strengthened relations throughout the community. If you are not a fansubber or only wish to bash, flame, argue, troll, etc... please do not join our channel. Do it here if you must. Please do not disturb those who actually see this as a productive helpful service. Thank you, getfresh FreelanceFansubs can be found at #FLF@irc.rizon.net

2008-07-14, 07:39	Link #14
Quarkboy Translator, Producer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 44	The problem with releasing avs' is that in general they wouldn't teach anyone much. Being an effective encoder is about crafting a filter chain that works for a given raw and a given show: there's no one-size-fits-all solution to a really good encode. Also, you aren't going to learn how to encode by analyzing avisynth files, e.g. if you take the output from yatta after fixing combing problems, you learn nothing about the skills needed to actually identify and fix the problems. When it comes to the philosophy of the group and openness, obviously all materials should be available, but I just don't think it's really possible to learn much about encoding by looking at script files. __________________ Read Light Novels in English at J-Novel Club! Translator, Producer, Japan Media Export Expert Founder and Owner of J-Novel Club Sam Pinansky

2008-07-14, 02:59	Link #2
DryFire Panda Herder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A bombed out building in Beruit.	Only scripts? Encoding's not a real job anyomore?

2008-07-14, 03:03	Link #3
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	No. We have the full encoded versions up as well. Just offering the scripts as well for people to look at if they wish to see what type of code was used for typesetting, what fonts were used, how the scripts were formatted, etc... Of course we will have softsub stuff as well, but you cannot softsub extremely code heavy .ass stuff. That is what the scripts are for.

2008-07-14, 05:37	Link #4
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	sounds like a really good idea that could help alot of people.. why not offer the encoding settings as well btw? (avisynth script x264 command line parameters etc.)

2008-07-14, 05:48	Link #6
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	oh, well anyway i think this is a great idea and should help lots of people. kinda like fansubbing school

2008-07-14, 05:56	Link #7
Lynn huh? Join Date: May 2007	wow, thats a great idea - I'm looking forward to it. The thing with the encoding scripts also sounds good. Don't know why someone should keep the avs script secret because you can't copy it 1:1. Each raw needs a different handling, doesn't it?

2008-07-14, 06:33	Link #9
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	Posting video encoding scripts is like posting your code for the first time to some elite open source community. It can turn out to be a brutal experience. If people provided comparative screenshots or short clips from raws and final videos, posting avs scripts, notes, and their encoding processes would have more meaning. I'd certainly be intrigued to explore the world of filtering, but with the ammount of information out there it's just discouraging.

2008-07-14, 06:33	Link #10
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	oh and i think it'll be pretty useful if you could have sessions at some specific times so you can explain stuff to a large group of people instead of explaining things over and over again every time.. thou that could be overdoing it

2008-07-14, 07:16	Link #11
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	One thing I think that is kind of misunderstood is that we are not going to "train" people. We are allowing anyone to come view the process first hand as we will discuss the projects and do our staff communications in the public channel. And we will offer scripts for references and so on. But we are not going to "hold classes". We will answer questions that are asked in a polite manor when we have time. But in the end we are still a fansub group. What we are doing is more like a program author giving out his source code to the public. As the threads title suggests. This is a service provided for fansubbers, so we expect people to be resourceful and willing to research the answers to their questions a bit before asking them. I myself, as well as anyone else in the group will not appreciate people joining and asking questions without even attempting to figure it out on their own. I find that type of situation slightly insulting. As for the question on AVS's, I will ask the encoders today and see what they think. It may be that some have no issues with it while others do not wish to share them. Whatever the case I hope you will all understand and respect their decision(s). Thanks getfresh

2008-07-14, 07:37	Link #13
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	No, not as far as open source. We would rather people not use our work for their groups. The purpose of giving out all this material is for other groups to reference it for doing their own work, on DIFFERENT projects. There is no need for a group to re-sub and release what we have already done. And if they are going to do a different language sub we would appreciate they create their own scripts from scratch. Using our work would mean they are not truly subbing the series themselves, which kind of defeats the point in them even being a fansub group.

2008-07-14, 08:44	Link #15
DontAsk Join Date: Mar 2008	There's always something you can pick up on, especially if the script is well commented. It takes practice and you must play around with those things yourself to really learn, but I think it's a mistake to dismiss it as useless. It wouldn't take much effort to release those scripts anyway.

2008-07-14, 08:53	Link #16
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	In the end it comes down to the encoders choice. One encoder has opted out already, and I totally respect their choice. I hope that everyone else can as well.

2008-07-14, 13:13	Link #18
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	"Enforcing" ways onto newbies? We just want to learn a way that works. That whole perspective belongs to someone that already knows what he's doing.

2008-07-14, 13:25	Link #19
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	Since the avs issue is far too loaded of an issue from what I am seeing, I am going to have to say our group will not offer those. I can see it creating more issues than it will solve. this may be a cop out but I'd rather not turn this whole subject into a debate on an avs/encoding thread as it is one of the most minimal parts of the process in the end. Not saying encoding is this or that. Just stating it is not the main focus of this group to teach people how to encode.