The Syria Crisis

[AnimeFan188]

"Saudi Arabia is delivering military equipment to Syrian rebels in an effort to stop
bloodshed by President Bashar al-Assad's regime, a top Arab diplomat said on
Saturday.

"Saudi military equipment is on its way to Jordan to arm the Free Syrian Army," the
diplomat told AFP on condition of anonymity.

"This is a Saudi initiative to stop the massacres in Syria," he added, saying that
further "details will follow at a later time."

The announcement came two days after the conservative Sunni-ruled kingdom said
it had shut down its embassy in Syria and withdrawn all its staff."

See:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-syria-rebels/

[ganbaru]

Twin bombings in Damascus kill at least 27, almost 100 hurt
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8280G820120317

[AnimeFan188]

"The United States said Friday it is concerned about Iranian cargo flights over Iraq
to Syria, saying it has warned Iraq they might contain arms that could be used by
Damascus to crush protests.

"Without getting into intelligence matters, we are concerned about the overflight of
Iraq by Iranian cargo flights headed to Syria," State Department spokeswoman
Victoria Nuland told reporters."

See:

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_c...Syria_999.html

[AnimeFan188]

"Syrian soldiers backed by tanks seized the eastern city of Deir el-Zour from
rebels on Tuesday, the latest opposition stronghold to fall to an offensive by the
better equipped Syrian military.

Activist Osama Mansour said government troops and armored cars entered the
city about 100 kilometers (60 miles) from the Iraqi border from four sides,
sparking short gunbattles with fighters from the Free Syrian Army."

See:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...r-from-rebels/

[AnimeFan188]

U.N. raises Syria death toll estimate to more than 9,000:

"The United Nations said on Tuesday that more than 9,000 civilians have been
killed in the Syrian government's yearlong assault on protesters opposed to
President Bashar al-Assad, an increase of nearly 1,000 over its previous
estimate."

See:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,6523722.story




============================================

Syria accepts UN peace plan but bloodshed persists:

"Syria has accepted a peace plan by U.N. envoy Kofi Annan that includes a cease-
fire by the Syrian government, but the bloodshed persisted Tuesday as intense
clashes between government troops and rebels spilled across the border into
Lebanon, officials said."

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-accepts-...GVzdAM-;_ylv=3

[AnimeFan188]

"France raised the prospect of military intervention in Syria on Wednesday,
saying the U.N. should consider harsher measures if an international peace plan
that has been shaken by violence ultimately collapses.

The statement reflects mounting international frustration with daily attacks that
have kept a cease-fire between troops loyal to President Bashar Assad and
armed rebels seeking to oust him from taking hold."

See:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...lling-16208026

[ganbaru]

As far as I wish than something was done, the question is ''what'' can be done. It isn't as simple a droping a full payload of bombs of a B2 on Bashar Assad would end up the violence against the civilian. They didn't planned much in Libya and now it's a mess in the contry and around it, something than nobody want to happen there.

[AnimeFan188]

"Hundreds of Syrian soldiers reportedly defected from that country's armed forces
on Sunday, al-Arabiya reported, citing an opposition-supporting news service.

The defections came in the outskirts of capital Damascus and the port city of
Latakia, where large explosions were heard near the presidential palace, the Syrian
Media Center reported, according to al-Arabiya."

See:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...rs-defect?lite

[AnimeFan188]

Likud MK: Israeli doctors treating Syrians wounded in uprising:

"Deputy Minister Ayoob Kara says that Assad regime has used chemical weapons
against men, women, and children during its violent suppression of uprising."

See:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ising-1.435353

[AnimeFan188]

"Spain 1936. An army revolt against the democratically elected government sets
off a civil war. On one side are the Fascists, led by General Francisco Franco. On
the other side is a coalition of democrats both social democratic and liberal;
communal nationalists; anarchists, Communists, and independent Marxists. The
Western democracies declare an embargo: no arms to be sold to the Loyalist
side. But Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy help the Rebels, while Stalin’s USSR
helps the Communists, increasing their power within the Loyalist coalition. In the
end, the Fascists win and rule Spain for decades.

Syria 2012. The people revolt against the dictatorship setting off a civil war. On
one side is the anti-American repressive Syrian regime that has been a champion
of revolutionary Islamism; its ally, Iran; and Hizballah. On the other side is a
coalition of democrats, communal nationalists, and Islamists. The Western
democracies declare an embargo: no arms to be sold to the rebels. But Shia
Islamist Iran and Russia help the regime, while Turkey and the Muslim
Brotherhood help the Islamists, increasing their power within the rebel coalition.
In the end, either the regime wins or the Islamist component among the rebels is
more likely to win."

See:

http://www.gloria-center.org/2012/06...r-of-our-time/

[Ithekro]

Ah, but will it lead to another World War?

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Ah, but will it lead to another World War?

If north korea and iran with support from Russia/China decide to go all out we might get WW2.5

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Ah, but will it lead to another World War?

Syria isn't important enough to destroy the world over. One side would be defeated before the international community can get involved. And if there is a stalemate, we will likely see the country split in half along the contested territories.

In the end, either the regime wins or the Islamist component among the rebels is
more likely to win."

I really don't see what's so surprising about Islamists in these events. They are part of the population, no matter what the Westerners want. I personally want America to be less influenced by Evangelicals, but it's not like I can do anything about that ether.

[Ithekro]

Spain itself didn't start the Second World War, but the setup from it allowed the combatants practise before the war started just a few years later. It was basically a preview of the war to come.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Spain itself didn't start the Second World War, but the setup from it allowed the combatants practise before the war started just a few years later. It was basically a preview of the war to come.

... and it is the safest place for Russia and China to test their newest radar, telco jammers, missiles against equipment done by the USA/EU.

[Ridwan]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

http://www.gloria-center.org/2012/06...r-of-our-time/

Originally Posted by gloria-center.org

Why stand and watch (and even help!) while the Muslim Brotherhood and Turkey, determined to foment Islamist revolution and destroy U.S. interests, seize control of the opposition and seek to impose a new and equally ferocious dictatorship on Syria?

Pfft.


Anyway, anyone here has heard about Romney's idea to arm Syrian opposition ?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

... and it is the safest place for Russia and China to test their newest radar, telco jammers, missiles against equipment done by the USA/EU.

Still, this time around Russia has officially blocked all UN involvement, unlike with Libya. So with no official US involvement it would be harder to tell the results of tests.

Yes, I have no doubt right now everyone with spare agents is trying to influence the outcome off the table. But there is no clear boundaries here. Even if the Syrian government survives, they might end up become indebted to those who supported them and end up become politically weaker. This really isn't what Syria wanted. When it becomes a full civil war, it means the government no longer have a stable support base. And if it happened once, it can happen again. This is only going to get worse for them even if they survive this battle.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Still, this time around Russia has officially blocked all UN involvement, unlike with Libya. So with no official US involvement it would be harder to tell the results of tests.

Of course there will be no official involvement, just the same the USA had no official involvement with the contras in nicaragua back in the 20th century (oliver north dixit)

Yes, I have no doubt right now everyone with spare agents is trying to influence the outcome off the table. But there is no clear boundaries here. Even if the Syrian government survives, they might end up become indebted to those who supported them and end up become politically weaker. This really isn't what Syria wanted. When it becomes a full civil war, it means the government no longer have a stable support base. And if it happened once, it can happen again. This is only going to get worse for them even if they survive this battle.

Using the example of the spanish civil war, all it means is that whoever wins will have their opponents flee or risk being massacred. The new goverment in itself will become stronger even if the population becomes poorer. Remember Hitler went to Franco to ask for military help and he said "sure, if you help me invade portugal" and even after wwii the allies made no attempt to free spain from Franco's "weak" goverment.

[Vexx]

The whole thing is just damned depressing.... but people have to know so much of this is tribal - just like in many other countries. Under the "first world style" trappings are Shia and Sunni tribes. Assad's people are a tribe that was treated like dirt in the last century until the French occupation used them in the military to keep the majority under control. Assad's people used that leverage (the military) to attain power in the first place.

Not defending Assad there, just explaining how a tribe that was considered almost a cult variation of Islam took power originally.

[AnimeFan188]

Syrian Government Forced to Bomb its Own SAM Sites:

"So the Syrian rebels recently took over a battery of what appear to be Soviet-made
Vietnam war-era SA-2 Guideline surface to air missile. The rebels got their hands on
the SAM site after members of the Syrian army’s 743d air defense battalion defected
to their cause. However, government forces soon bombed their own air defense
site to prevent any missile systems from falling into rebel hands. Yes, the Syrian
government is being forced to conduct air strikes against its own air defense
facilities."

See:

http://defensetech.org/2012/06/13/sy...own-sam-sites/