2010-06-25, 14:50 | Link #11581 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:03 | Link #11583 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
any others we can think of?
__________________
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:05 | Link #11584 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:07 | Link #11585 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
There has to be some kind of Beatrice, otherwise Beato wouldn't be allowed to say things like "The key to the chapel truly was the object inside the envelope I gave Maria"...
The first twilights are all odd, but for different reasons. The first is odd since someone or some group must've dragged a bunch of people to the garden shed (for no real reason) after going insane with some sort of weapon. The second is odd since all 6 people were apparently alive in the chapel, and quite how "Beatrice" lured them in there and killed them is a bit up in the air. The third is odd due to the carefully planned nature of it... interestingly, other than Kinzo and Kanon, they all could've been found and shot where they ended up. The fourth is weird since it's gonna be hard to blast 6 people in roughly the same part of the head without any of them reacting. On the other hand, it seems more calm and controlled than the rest... |
2010-06-25, 15:12 | Link #11586 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
I did come up with a theory recently for how to solve the closed rooms without having people faking and killing them after breaking them. Just an alternative for if the fake murders don't work out.
Basically it's a mutual murder. The people in the first, second twilights, etc whom are discovered dead in the closed rooms wanted to commit suicide, but for whatever reason couldn't. The murderer murders the victims because they want to die. In other words the culprit murders out of mercy and gains nothing from the murder itself. Afterward the victims create the closed rooms from the inside.(sometimes)
__________________
|
2010-06-25, 15:12 | Link #11587 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
...oh, idea!
__________________
|
2010-06-25, 15:29 | Link #11590 | |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:33 | Link #11591 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Quote:
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:33 | Link #11592 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
Furthermore, the murder was carried out with both the victim and the perpetrator in the same room! Also Battler saw the magic circle himself , which is an equivalent to red truth, so using a devil's proof isn't going to help you in any way. This is also grossly out of character for them so I don't think it would work anyway.
__________________
|
|
2010-06-25, 15:39 | Link #11593 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Although, if we just have Kanon as the culprit, it becomes quite a lot easier... he kills them both, cuts the lock, draws the circle and claims he found them like that. There doesn't seem to be any red text at all that contradicts that.
Incidentally, Kanon's "death" is actually pretty much guarenteed to be fake. Unless you can find a way around "In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!". And sure, corpses weren't misidentified, but if you're not dead, you're not a corpse... |
2010-06-25, 15:41 | Link #11594 | |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
|
Quote:
I am counting as the "bathroom" and "bedroom" being counted as the same room (i.e. the closed room confines both the bathroom and bedroom, therefore they are they same room). If that doesn't fly, then technically opening the door and NOT CLOSING IT shifts the definition so that the bedroom is no longer off limits from the confines of the bathroom, therefore it technically becomes the SAME room. An unknown accomplice, either Kanon or Kumasawa or anyone who realizes the murder has occurred before Battler gets a chance to use Detective Authority could have done the following things: Either Kanon or Kumasawa hide the guns after they discover unexpected double homicide and decide to make it the second twilight. They alter the scene before Battler gets a chance to use Detective authority. If Kanon or Kumasama aren't accomplices, then during the unknown span of time X between Kanon and Kumasawa leaving the room and Battler arriving after being informed of the crime all of these actions can occur. Devil's proof to show how they did in the span of time, or who it is. This is possible to not leave clues because, in EP5, the bodies of the victims get moved without Erika (the Detective) realizing they are moved. Thus, Detective Privilege only is covered when you can physically inspect the room with your own two eyes. Devil proof on how everything was moved without leaving clues. |
|
2010-06-25, 15:46 | Link #11595 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Again it's grossly out of character for them to kill each other like that. Not that duels don't happen at all mind you it just doesn't happen between the couples and that's something that's common throughout the episodes. Plus they were both aware that the other person was in the room there is no way Eva would mistake him for the culprit like your saying.
Furthermore Both were killed by another person is different from Rosa and Maria were killed by other people . The former insinuates the two people were killed by one person the latter insinuates more than one person could possibly do it. If anything the two of them faking is more believable than them killing each other.
__________________
|
2010-06-25, 15:52 | Link #11596 |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
|
That was a joke theory. I keep emphasizing that it was unexpected because they instinctively pull the trigger before confirming the identity of the person. Kind of like shooting in the dark. It's just too bad that they end up killing each other, isn't it?
For me, being killed "by another person" encompasses both those reds. I don't have the Japanese, but I wouldn't be surprised if that style of thinking is a weird nuance that comes from translating into English. Although, it still has the chance to be right. All of these interpretations of red is like the Tube theory. None of us can negate each others interpretations! But still, I personally believe double homicide (even unexpected) doesn't break those reds. They're both killed by another person. It's just chance they it happens to be each other hahaha. |
2010-06-25, 15:52 | Link #11597 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Golden Land
|
Spoiler for the red text:
So basically, the only way to logically explain this situation, is to assume that someone is impersonating for one of the mentioned 15 dead characters and the original is dead. We know that Gohda was hired just before, or right after, Kinzo death and that he was chosen because of the best qualifications.If a person X would suspect that Kinzo is dead, or soon will be, and wanted to steal his fortune, he would probably send a spy on the island. The real Gohda was killed right after he was fired from the hotel and his identity was stolen by the spy who use it to infiltrate the The Rokkenjima. I personally find “Gohda” extremely suspicious because his death was never 100% certain. In the first episode his face was destroyed, in the second and third Battler did not find his body and in the forth episode his face was all covered in blood. The way that “Gohda” and Kumasawa corpses were placed in episode 4, visible but unreachable, suggests that the culprit wanted to show them in the open to trick the witness. In the end Battler found the way to examine them, but because he didn’t clean the blood on their faces (and because Battler is incompetent), we can’t be certain that those bodies really belong to “Gohda” and Kumasawa. |
2010-06-25, 15:55 | Link #11598 | |||||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
|
Quote:
But Eva's getting the inheritance anyway is implied to have been through direct legal channels, i.e. she inherited shares of the holding company as property by law, rather than bought them for a nominal amount from their previous owner like it would happen normally. For this to happen at all, "Beatrice" needs to be an Ushiromiya. It still can be absolutely any member of the Ushiromiya family register who died on the island except Battler, because they would need to sign for it, and we know Battler didn't, since he isn't Beatrice. Jessica is a strong Beatrice candidate for other reasons, but this does not rule out, for example, Rosa, and that "Beatrice" doesn't have to be female either. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||||
2010-06-25, 15:57 | Link #11599 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
It's probably better to use Battler's logic about the time of death rather than have an impersonator. Since person X does not exist. This theory is further supported by Episode 5 so I think it's solid.
Quote:
__________________
|
|
|
|