Game of Thrones

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Proto

Ok now I know you either read the books or you were spoiled. The salt thing was never explained in the series.

the Salt thing is a very old custom in Western and Middle Eastern countries. Lots of Fantasy series have, "Guest Rights", "Breaking Bread Together" and "Sharing Salt" in them.

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by Proto

Ok now I know you either read the books or you were spoiled. The salt thing was never explained in the series.

I never read the books and never will until the series has ended.

The guest rights and salt thing was explained to me by GOT wikia (A wikia to the show, not the books) after watching the episode when Craster was killed where the wikia explained the Night's Watch member who killed him broke the rules of what you shouldn't do to the host.

[Proto]

the Salt thing is a very old custom in Western and Middle Eastern countries. Lots of Fantasy series have, "Guest Rights", "Breaking Bread Together" and "Sharing Salt" in them.

I'm aware of that, but it is neither a well known tradition among the general public nor is the meaning in GoT exactly the same as the real world one (which actually takes several meaning depending on the region). Heck, I've asked several ppl who watched the show and most didn't even recognize the thing in there was salt ('What is that? looks like bad hummus' I got from one person)

I'm aware of the GOT wikia, but that doesn't count as show information. (As you had to read beyond the series to undertand what was presented, which is undesirable. Most of the time works should be self contained so that they can be understood by themselves.

Unfortunately cutting many of these small details and internal monologues have a detrimental effect on some of the viewer's watching experience. One complaint I've gotten from the ppl I watch with is that many times it looks like the characters are stupid people making stupid decisions, (like in this case.)

[Roger Rambo]

I wouldn't get to worked up about it the severity of the whole guest thing not being conveyed. I'd imagine it'll come up in the next episode when the power players back in kings landing find out about the red wedding and discuss it. It's a much more natural way to bring up the subject than just having the characters provide random info dump exposition about it beforehand.

"Yep, that's the salt and bread that is customarily given to guests to protect them from getting slaughtered! Isn't that nice."

as opposed to...

"The Starks were slaughtered by the Freys at the wedding? But that's a violation of guests right! This is an affront to the gods!"

People don't often go into exposition about things when they seem somewhat routine. They only feel the need to do that when something has gone SHOCKINGLY against the normal procedure.


There's also the matter of emphasizing the guest right thing too forwardly might have foreshadowed a bit too much.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Proto

Heck, I've asked several ppl who watched the show and most didn't even recognize the thing in there was salt ('What is that? looks like bad hummus' I got from one person)

Yeah, I wasn't sure what it was either at first. Thought it was some sort of dip.

Still don't think they were being stupid, though.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

"The Starks were slaughtered by the Freys at the wedding? But that's a violation of guests right! This is an affront to the gods!"

I could easily see Tyrion or Jaime, if he makes it there, saying that.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by GDB

I could easily see Tyrion or Jaime, if he makes it there, saying that.

The preview already indicates that Tyrion is talking to someone (probably Tywin) about the matter. The whole "The North will remember" spiel. It certainly suggests Tyrion understands what a dick move just transpired.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I never read the books and never will until the series has ended.

The guest rights and salt thing was explained to me by GOT wikia (A wikia to the show, not the books) after watching the episode when Craster was killed where the wikia explained the Night's Watch member who killed him broke the rules of what you shouldn't do to the host.

The problem is, in the book,

Spoiler for Lines that could be useful in the show.:

Robb and Cat had a conversation where Cat immediately asked for the Guest right before meeting with El Frey.

When Frey met Robb, Frey actually said something like "Oh u want guest right, fine" when Robb asked for Bread and Salt.

These lines could had directly written into the show. People could understand it is significance just by estimating.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Proto

Ok now I know you either read the books or you were spoiled. The salt thing was never explained in the series.

It was, in a way - just not explicitly. I assume David & David did that intentionally to make the event itself more of a shock.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Y'know, I was reading another thread that is for T.V. show people only and even though I'm a reader of the books someone brought up an interesting point that I think could add some depth to the whole Red Wedding fiasco.

The theory has to do with Melisandre's leech curse thingy. It's hard to believe that Gendry/Edric Storm's blood in a leech could be enough to make it happen as there is an obvious amount of planning that went into it that would have had to have been in place for a while.

The theory was that perhaps the leech curse added an element of madness to the whole situation and brought out a much more brutal and depraved glee in the massacre by the Freys. I mean would they really have to go that far just to betray Robb? Wasn't there an element of cruelty and godlessness there that goes beyond simple betrayal and spite for not holding to a promise?

Never really heard Martin asked about that so I thought it was an interesting perspective on the whole event that I never really considered before. Just thought I'd share.

[Reckoner]

Honestly, I thought the episode was pretty weak. I speak as a biased book reader, but they really made a hash of this whole season. The Robb in the TV series is unsympathetic and I feel almost no connection to him emotionally. Roose Bolton's betrayal was handled horribly. Catelyn's melt down had none of the impact of the books (She's literally tearing her face off after Robb dies). Talisa's character was garbage.

Just all around disappointing.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Honestly, I thought the episode was pretty weak. I speak as a biased book reader, but they really made a hash of this whole season. The Robb in the TV series is unsympathetic and I feel almost no connection to him emotionally. Roose Bolton's betrayal was handled horribly. Catelyn's melt down had none of the impact of the books (She's literally tearing her face off after Robb dies). Talisa's character was garbage.

Just all around disappointing.

I disagree about Robb ((and categorically disagree concerning Cat's "meltdown" - her roar of impotent rage was spine-tingling and everything I could possibly imagine). Robb from the books is more or less perfect (or is at least described that way) with no real defining characteristics beyond his honor (That's why he never had a POV chapter, he was simply too uninteresting to even hold the attention of the audience for a single chapter), whereas the Robb from the adaptation is a conflicted individual often times lost and without direction, who is trying to do right by his father, family, and kinsmen. His failures as shown in the adaptation had far more impact, for me, than they ever had in the novels (were, due to a bit of meta-reading, I was literally waiting for Robb to die from the second book onwards once I realized he would get no POV chapters). It was Cat's death that always shocked me.

Completely agree about Bolton though. I imagine he was purposely kept in the background just to add shock to the eventual massacre, but I can't help but feel it was a mistake.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Honestly, I thought the episode was pretty weak. I speak as a biased book reader, but they really made a hash of this whole season. The Robb in the TV series is unsympathetic and I feel almost no connection to him emotionally. Roose Bolton's betrayal was handled horribly. Catelyn's melt down had none of the impact of the books (She's literally tearing her face off after Robb dies). Talisa's character was garbage.

Just all around disappointing.

I thought it as otherwise, because at least Kat managed to kill the young Frey wife. In the book she killed a retarded fool (Jingle bells) which made her look stupid, I.E in the most desperate moment of her life Frey was holding all aces, while Cat literally had a....joker.

[DragoZERO]

Let me add spoiler tags for you! Seriously guys, please add some spoiler tags...

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Honestly, I thought the episode was pretty weak.

Spoiler for Books:

I speak as a biased book reader, but they really made a hash of this whole season. The Robb in the TV series is unsympathetic and I feel almost no connection to him emotionally. Roose Bolton's betrayal was handled horribly. Catelyn's melt down had none of the impact of the books (She's literally tearing her face off after Robb dies). Talisa's character was garbage.

Just all around disappointing.

I understand where you are coming from. I would suggest viewing the TV series as a different continuum. More of a "inspired by" than a "based upon" sort of mentality. I have not read the books but based on what my friend tells me, there is a lot going on. They did miss some stuff from the books but what they did not miss, they handled superbly - that being Frey massacring them.

I look forward to reading the books to see the differences. I just hope the TV series and the book isn't completely spoiled.

[jvcscasio]

The first phrase on this video says it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAU_nr467to

The show is different because it's a television show, not a book

[durack]

As a reader, I think the show is as perfect as you can get (well, a bit more bucks for special effects and more crowd scenes would be good, but that's about it).

I must admit that I've been quite disappointed by the last 2 books, so I am actually looking forward to some changes to liven things up.

[durack]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

So there. Either your friend was clueless or wasn't paying attention.

Yup. Sorry.

Even if you are not looking for subtle hints, you can tell that Robb was SOL. He lost the Freys, then the Karstarks, we KNOW that Bolton is dealing with the Lannisters.
Why on earth would Frey help him at this point?

By the time he shows up at the wedding, he already has a big DOOMED sign on his neck.

[oompa loompa]

fuck yeah season finale time!

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by james0246

I disagree about Robb ((and categorically disagree concerning Cat's "meltdown" - her roar of impotent rage was spine-tingling and everything I could possibly imagine). Robb from the books is more or less perfect (or is at least described that way) with no real defining characteristics beyond his honor (That's why he never had a POV chapter, he was simply too uninteresting to even hold the attention of the audience for a single chapter), whereas the Robb from the adaptation is a conflicted individual often times lost and without direction, who is trying to do right by his father, family, and kinsmen. His failures as shown in the adaptation had far more impact, for me, than they ever had in the novels (were, due to a bit of meta-reading, I was literally waiting for Robb to die from the second book onwards once I realized he would get no POV chapters). It was Cat's death that always shocked me.

Completely agree about Bolton though. I imagine he was purposely kept in the background just to add shock to the eventual massacre, but I can't help but feel it was a mistake.

Actually, I have to disagree about Robb:

Robb from the book is more honorable than Robb the TV boy, because Rob in the book married a girl that belong to a Lannister House. He did it because he bop the girl one night and, well, you broke it, you brought it. He was screwed because of his honor (like Dad).

Robb from the TV did it because he met a hot nurse from Volantis...who is this weird International Red Cross type whose job is to treat all combatant. Wtf is that in medieval westeros? It couldn't any weirder if he met a Magic School girl from Japan or a Russian Commissar cira 1930.

As for the Boltons...didn't Roose had a dinner scene with Jamie where he stated the fact he is swinging for the Lannister team soon?

[AmeNoJaku]

In medieval Europe (dunno about Westeros) that would be a nun order that is not dead-set in making money out of the misery of their contemporaries... and wasn't that rare too, despite our own contemporary Judeo-Christian-Muslims and Western Buddhists got influenced by the later, rather then the former

[jvcscasio]

Man, what an awesome episode...