AnimeSuki Forums

Rising Dragon · 2011-12-04, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaunt88

That's weird, I was under the impression that they did. Why, then, does eating a metric ton of food help regenerate mana?

That probably has less to do with mana and more to do with metabolism.

Gaunt88 · 2011-12-04, 01:23

Yeah, but I figured that the sheer amount of food they were putting away couldn't be explained by just normal metabolism.

Keroko · 2011-12-04, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Myabe their actually refering to how much mana said awesome character can "store" in his/her body?

Then how come they can run out? If they're drawing magic from the air, they should have unlimited magic to work with, yet both Nanoha and Negima mages can run out of magical energy and end up having to recover it the usual way (eating, sleeping, etc.)

'tis a funny inconsistency, but one that tends to come natural when people use the 'external energy' method. Most of the times I read stories with it, people tend to ignore the unlimited power part and use it as if it's internal energy.

Tiresias · 2011-12-04, 07:02

I always thought that mages can only gather ambient magic at a fixed, slow rate - not enough to refill the pool amidst the battle. That's why Nanoha's Starlight Breaker, which gathers nearby magic quickly, is considered unique.

Then again, I always wonder why except Teana other medium to low-powered mages never used the concept.

Keroko · 2011-12-04, 07:28

魔導師の食事 – A mage’s diet
For mages, Mana in the atmosphere is linked together in an organ, the “Linker core”, and stored within their body. For quick replenishment, a balanced diet consisting of sugars, carbohydrates and proteins is essential, as are a variety of vitamins and minerals to maintain a healthy body. Therefore out of necessity, mages undergoing hard training during their early growth period eat a much larger diet compared to an ordinary person. Furthermore, pasta and other noodle-type foods are easily digested, so these types of food, known as ｢Loading Foods」, are loved by many mages, since they allow for quick energy and Mana replenishment.

It's funny how one article can throw out a contradiction on the very thing it's talking about. In one line it says "mana in the atmosphere" in the next "pasta allows for quick mana replenishment."

Doip.

Tiresias · 2011-12-04, 07:32

...maybe Midchildan cuisine are rich in mana?

At least, that was the impression I got from reading the description of "Loading Foods" above

Gaunt88 · 2011-12-04, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

...maybe Midchildan cuisine are rich in mana?

That's about the only thing that makes sense.

That, or maybe linking mana together requires a hell of a lot of energy and slows down when energy is unavailable, so eating a ton of pasta keeps the recharge rate at its peak.

Christ, mages must have fearsomely efficient digestive systems

al103 · 2011-12-04, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaunt88

That's weird, I was under the impression that they did. Why, then, does eating a metric ton of food help regenerate mana?

Because to gather energy you need to spend energy. Entropy, duh! It's like using electricity to get hydrogen from something and then use it as fuel.

PS. And Negima one is not inconsistent to - mage indeed cast from inside but that inside mana pool is replenished from outside... unlike ki-users.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

It's funny how one article can throw out a contradiction on the very thing it's talking about. In one line it says "mana in the atmosphere" in the next "pasta allows for quick mana replenishment."

Doip.

As I said - using electricity (food) to get hydrogen from for example water (mana from atmosphere) then use said hydrogen (mana) to fuel drive (spell) doesn't mean that hydrogen (mana) was made from electricity (food).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaunt88

or maybe linking mana together requires a hell of a lot of energy and slows down when energy is unavailable, so eating a ton of pasta keeps the recharge rate at its peak.

This. Thousand times this.

Nanya01 · 2011-12-04, 09:14

Course, it could be, even with the ability to absorb from the air, that a mage gets tired mentally...

Or their bodies just wear out.

They can use the magic that's there, but their bodies are just so worn out physically and mentally that they can't do it anymore.

Remember the reason Nanoha got injured was because she put too much stress on her body from Starlight Breaker and other spells like it.

And, yes, it was specifically mentioned that Starlight Breaker was straining her body.

ZeroXSEED · 2011-12-04, 09:16

^ Probably because she's handling more Mana in that single spell than she naturally can do?

Nanya01 · 2011-12-04, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

^ Probably because she's handling more Mana in that single spell than she naturally can do? I notice teana is panting, wither exhausted, feel that strain, or both.

Maybe, but the point is, people are saying that because magic's naturally in the air and around them (and same with Ki, if you wish) that they should have unlimited power...

The problem with that is, of course, that the body can't handle unlimited power.

Don't forget that human bodies (not that it helps for some anime/manga that don't do research) have limits to what they can do (the brain keeps us from using too much up at once).

Even if the magic is there in the air at all times, does that mean that you can use it freely?

That's like saying because the air has an abundance of water that you shouldn't get dehydrated at all when you work out.

Edit: There was a fic I read once, don't ask me for the exact quote, but...

"How is he out of energy? I thought you were channeling your Ki into him."
"I was, but even though he was using my Ki to know what it felt like, he was still using some of his energy with each move, so, even though he was using my Ki, his body still got worn out."

Tiresias · 2011-12-04, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Even if the magic is there in the air at all times, does that mean that you can use it freely?

That's like saying because the air has an abundance of water that you shouldn't get dehydrated at all when you work out.

Edit: There was a fic I read once, don't ask me for the exact quote, but...

...pretty sure the last time I check I can't drink the water in the surrounding air

. Wouldn't a better analogy be saying that because air is abundant you should never ran out of breath at all when you work out?

Silly nitpicks aside, I just thought about something regarding a Negima/Nanoha crossover. Flans Exarmatio may be better known as the stripping spell, but it's main purpose is actually disarmament. And as someone once pointed out the only device-less mage in the Nanohaverse are Arf, Yuuno, Zafira and Lindy, and the rest of them, ranging from the mooks to the heavy hitters, are dependent on their weapons for fighting. I'm curious on what effect Flans Exarmatio might have during a fight.

Nanya01 · 2011-12-04, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

...pretty sure the last time I check I can't drink the water in the surrounding air

. Wouldn't a better analogy be saying that because air is abundant you should never ran out of breath at all when you work out?

What if it's raining, snowing or very humid?

Keroko · 2011-12-04, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Silly nitpicks aside, I just thought about something regarding a Negima/Nanoha crossover. Flans Exarmatio may be better known as the stripping spell, but it's main purpose is actually disarmament. And as someone once pointed out the only device-less mage in the Nanohaverse are Arf, Yuuno, Zafira and Lindy, and the rest of them, ranging from the mooks to the heavy hitters, are dependent on their weapons for fighting. I'm curious on what effect Flans Exarmatio might have during a fight.

They'd give the caster an extreme advantage over device wielders. There's a reason why Negi only either fights enemies that don't have disarmable equipment, or conveniently forgets to use it until plot moments. Disarming your opponent is a winning move in any battle.

Nanya01 · 2011-12-04, 11:36

Another point against the whole "If you draw from an outside source, you should have unlimited magic"...

In Slayers, to do Holy or Black magic, you need to call upon a Shinzoku or Mazoku to do the high-level magic...

Yet, despite that, we've seen Lina run out of magic in the series at least three times, and she's gotten exhausted from casting 5 Dragon Slaves back to back.

So, yes, even with magic to draw upon from outside of your body, you still get tired and burn out.

Keroko · 2011-12-04, 12:21

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "'tis a funny inconsistency, but one that tends to come natural when people use the 'external energy' method. Most of the times I read stories with it, people tend to ignore the unlimited power part and use it as if it's internal energy."

Even if you use the "but you need regular energy to channel magic" excuse, that does not explain why pure caster mages in almost every media aren't heavy on the physical excessive. They'd need massive amounts of stamina to channel their destructive spells, the more destructive spell the more stamina needed. Yet the pure casters almost always have weak constitutions. Protagonists nothwistanding.

Though come to think of it, this is one thing StrikerS did well on. Even full-back mages like Caro who's job is only casting support spells go through the same grueling physical training as the melee mages. 'course then Nanoha throws dirt into that by being a regular ten year old who can cast spells more powerful than trained professionals.

It's really something we shouldn't be trying to explain. The more explanations you try to find, the more plotholes you trip over.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-04, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Silly nitpicks aside, I just thought about something regarding a Negima/Nanoha crossover. Flans Exarmatio may be better known as the stripping spell, but it's main purpose is actually disarmament. And as someone once pointed out the only device-less mage in the Nanohaverse are Arf, Yuuno, Zafira and Lindy, and the rest of them, ranging from the mooks to the heavy hitters, are dependent on their weapons for fighting. I'm curious on what effect Flans Exarmatio might have during a fight.

Not to mention it probably wouldn't be played for laughs in the crossover as devices in the Nanohaverse are sentinent weapond with strong bonds with thier users, that Negima spell could effectively "kill" a device. Stripped naked, seeing your trusty companion "die" before your eyes, knowing you're now mostly defenseless against a strong adversary. Yup, such pretty much like a WHAM scene worthy of an "Oh Crap" face.

bhl88 · 2011-12-04, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Not to mention it probably wouldn't be played for laughs in the crossover as devices in the Nanohaverse are sentinent weapond with strong bonds with thier users, that Negima spell could effectively "kill" a device. Stripped naked, seeing your trusty companion "die" before your eyes, knowing you're now mostly defenseless against a strong adversary. Yup, such pretty much like a WHAM scene worthy of an "Oh Crap" face.

There's only one way: Negima uses Flans Exarmatio on Arf and Lindy XD (Nodoka: Wait don't use it with that kind of power level!).

Strip.

Negi: Ah.
Asuna: Baka Negi kick!

Keroko · 2011-12-04, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Not to mention it probably wouldn't be played for laughs in the crossover as devices in the Nanohaverse are sentinent weapond with strong bonds with thier users, that Negima spell could effectively "kill" a device. Stripped naked, seeing your trusty companion "die" before your eyes, knowing you're now mostly defenseless against a strong adversary. Yup, such pretty much like a WHAM scene worthy of an "Oh Crap" face.

Funny thing, it doesn't destroy weapons, only clothing. Weapons are just blown away.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-04, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Funny thing, it doesn't destroy weapons, only clothing. Weapons are just blown away.

Ah sorry, didn't watched Negima yet xD

Wait, how that will work with Revolver Knucle? or Chris/Sacred Heart for that matter?

2011-12-04, 07:02	Link #184
Tiresias Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00) Age: 37	I always thought that mages can only gather ambient magic at a fixed, slow rate - not enough to refill the pool amidst the battle. That's why Nanoha's Starlight Breaker, which gathers nearby magic quickly, is considered unique. Then again, I always wonder why except Teana other medium to low-powered mages never used the concept. __________________

2011-12-04, 07:32	Link #186
Tiresias Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00) Age: 37	...maybe Midchildan cuisine are rich in mana? At least, that was the impression I got from reading the description of "Loading Foods" above __________________ Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-12-04 at 07:57.

2011-12-04, 09:14	Link #189
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Course, it could be, even with the ability to absorb from the air, that a mage gets tired mentally... Or their bodies just wear out. They can use the magic that's there, but their bodies are just so worn out physically and mentally that they can't do it anymore. Remember the reason Nanoha got injured was because she put too much stress on her body from Starlight Breaker and other spells like it. And, yes, it was specifically mentioned that Starlight Breaker was straining her body. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2011-12-04, 09:16	Link #190
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	^ Probably because she's handling more Mana in that single spell than she naturally can do? __________________

2011-12-04, 11:36	Link #195
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Another point against the whole "If you draw from an outside source, you should have unlimited magic"... In Slayers, to do Holy or Black magic, you need to call upon a Shinzoku or Mazoku to do the high-level magic... Yet, despite that, we've seen Lina run out of magic in the series at least three times, and she's gotten exhausted from casting 5 Dragon Slaves back to back. So, yes, even with magic to draw upon from outside of your body, you still get tired and burn out. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2011-12-04, 01:23	Link #182
Gaunt88 Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Australia	Yeah, but I figured that the sheer amount of food they were putting away couldn't be explained by just normal metabolism.

2011-12-04, 07:28	Link #185
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	魔導師の食事 – A mage’s diet For mages, Mana in the atmosphere is linked together in an organ, the “Linker core”, and stored within their body. For quick replenishment, a balanced diet consisting of sugars, carbohydrates and proteins is essential, as are a variety of vitamins and minerals to maintain a healthy body. Therefore out of necessity, mages undergoing hard training during their early growth period eat a much larger diet compared to an ordinary person. Furthermore, pasta and other noodle-type foods are easily digested, so these types of food, known as ｢Loading Foods」, are loved by many mages, since they allow for quick energy and Mana replenishment. It's funny how one article can throw out a contradiction on the very thing it's talking about. In one line it says "mana in the atmosphere" in the next "pasta allows for quick mana replenishment." Doip.

2011-12-04, 12:21	Link #196
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "'tis a funny inconsistency, but one that tends to come natural when people use the 'external energy' method. Most of the times I read stories with it, people tend to ignore the unlimited power part and use it as if it's internal energy." Even if you use the "but you need regular energy to channel magic" excuse, that does not explain why pure caster mages in almost every media aren't heavy on the physical excessive. They'd need massive amounts of stamina to channel their destructive spells, the more destructive spell the more stamina needed. Yet the pure casters almost always have weak constitutions. Protagonists nothwistanding. Though come to think of it, this is one thing StrikerS did well on. Even full-back mages like Caro who's job is only casting support spells go through the same grueling physical training as the melee mages. 'course then Nanoha throws dirt into that by being a regular ten year old who can cast spells more powerful than trained professionals. It's really something we shouldn't be trying to explain. The more explanations you try to find, the more plotholes you trip over. Last edited by Keroko; 2011-12-04 at 12:42.