(L) Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? [WN]

[Pielord Miniman]

Originally Posted by Amuris

@Cabman



just gonna borrow myopius' work here.

I always thought she was just being facetious here and just talking about time and probability in a really roundabout way.

Both are equally likely because there's no actual solid evidence either way.

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

Hm yeah, you're probably right. I forgot about the part where Maou can fend off hero but might lose by the next generation of hero so just by killing the hero isn't enough; Shiro might pull some other trick to suspend the system...or it could be like what I said, as long as the Maou is the one who killed the hero, the system will still work normally.

I don't think that's quite right, cuz consider over the years all the Heroes that might have died on the way to the Demon Lord (Fighting his generals and such). The odds that not a single hero has been killed by something other than the Demon Lord are astronomically low.


Deleted next message cuz double post...

[cabman11]

Long story short
There's no way in bloody hell shun is a beating Ariel.
Especially not if she hunts them down and kill them while they're still weak or instant Blitz and vaporizers them.
And she can always spam abyss magic every time she meets them
But then she's going to have to deal with the next one and then the next one and then the next one and then the next one and then the next one and then the next one.

But it seems she can always get rid of the demon king title whenever she wants with ruler authority

[Amuris]

Originally Posted by Pielord Miniman

I always thought she was just being facetious here and just talking about time and probability in a really roundabout way.

Both are equally likely because there's no actual solid evidence either way.

True, it could be either. However, if it was an issue of time, it wouldn't be this generation that she feels she should still be cautious of.

@Cabman
We're specifically talking about an aspect of the system that would cheat in his favor. That, rather than defeating her, he would be handed victory under some unknown condition or means. Don't get preoccupied on the fact that the hero is Shun, it has nothing to do with his actual abilities. Rather, it's a question of what rules are being placed on their roles.

[Von Himmel]

The odds that not a single hero has been killed by something other than the Demon Lord are astronomically low.

Yeah, even if they're strong odds are there might be someone else that might kill them during the journey. Julius was almost killed by magic back when he was a kid too even though he was saved at the end

[cabman11]

Basically as long as the hero never find a reason to attack the Demon Lord, all is well.
Even 2 heroes and demon lords teamed up to get it to attack a god..... But failed horribly

[Wurstorff]

Just one thing.

Originally Posted by cabman11

Long story short
There's no way in bloody hell shun is a beating Ariel.[...]

WRONG. Explicitly wrong. Shiro is afraid that the Hero-Maou-system might kick reason in the butt and make Shun win after all. Because that's how that system works. Which is why she keeps plotting to keep Ariel safer.

[myopius]

Originally Posted by Pielord Miniman

It was a one time thing only applicable to her because she was half in the system due to hacking it. She immediately began to fix as something of an afterthought (and going by the tone she used, fixed quite quickly)

The ごとに part (Ctrl+F for the line I mean) may imply it happens repeatedly every time Julius kills one of her spiders--her last thought on the matter is "Anyway, I need to fix that" so I'm actually not sure how fast she fixed it.

Originally Posted by Pielord Miniman

Both are equally likely because there's no actual solid evidence either way.

This is how I'd sum up basically every difference of view about this WN ever. There are so many lines, or terms, that some people will assume are innocuous, and some people will assume are yet another instance of the author's brilliant foreshadowing skills.

But yeah, I personally think that the context of describing the system from a technical perspective, and the words 法則 and 設定, and my opinion she'd never worry about Ariel losing to Julius based on a mere historical trend, make it very likely it's connected to a feature of the hero system.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by myopius

The ごとに part (Ctrl+F for the line I mean) may imply it happens repeatedly every time Julius kills one of her spiders--her last thought on the matter is "Anyway, I need to fix that" so I'm actually not sure how fast she fixed it.

Hmm, yeah, I got the nuance of "goto ni" wrong. I've changed the line to "Basically that happens every time a clone is defeated".

As for fixing the bug, I don't think it is fixed. The line implies that Shiro has started working on it but not yet finished.

btw, though you've adjusted the interpretation already, with regards to the other thing you were discussing from a future chapter...

Spoiler:

I think it would be better to say that the Demon King is an existence that is always defeated by "a" Hero rather than "the" [current] Hero. Ie it's not so much that the Demon King cannot defeat the Hero but that the Demon King cannot continuously defeat every Hero that comes up forever. I guess that explains why Ariel tried to avoid the Demon King title. It seems pretty clear to me that Shiro is being careful about even very low probability scenarios.

[kari-no-sugata II]

And translation for chapter 242 of the main story is out now.

It's quite interesting to see the other side of things like Oka-chan vs Natsume. It's also interesting how Oka-chan is compared to the goddess. I wonder if Shiro will become able to understand them a bit better in future...

[Amuris]

huh?

Spoiler for chapter 242:

Ah, I’m annoyed. What do they think of their own lives? Isn’t desperately struggling to stay alive what living creatures are supposed to be about? But they are doing nothing but going out of their way to waste their own lives. What makes me even angrier is that everyone I approve of does such things.

...Did Shiro just indirectly admit that she approves of Sariel, Kuro, and Ariel as people?! Well, makes sense. When it comes to Oka, she can be a bit like Kuro. Only difference is that, no matter how much Oka wants to save all the kids, she'll still kill them. She probably empathizes with those four's (Oka included) sentiments more than she lets on.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Amuris

huh?

Spoiler for chapter 242:

Ah, I’m annoyed. What do they think of their own lives? Isn’t desperately struggling to stay alive what living creatures are supposed to be about? But they are doing nothing but going out of their way to waste their own lives. What makes me even angrier is that everyone I approve of does such things.

...Did Shiro just indirectly admit that she approves of Sariel, Kuro, and Ariel as people?! Well, makes sense. When it comes to Oka, she can be a bit like Kuro. Only difference is that, no matter how much Oka wants to save all the kids, she'll still kill them. She probably empathizes with those four's (Oka included) sentiments more than she lets on.

At a guess I think Shiro is referring to Oka-chan and Shun only.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

At a guess I think Shiro is referring to Oka-chan and Shun only.

She's never shown the slightest interest or respect for Shun though. She only cares about Oka on their end.

[Amuris]

that's the weird thing about it. She's referring to more than one person, right? So it isn't just Oka. She doesn't seem to think badly of Julius. (now that I think about it, we keep forgetting that Julius isn't dead yet in our discussions) There's also the old sword emperor who died stalling Kyouya. So, yeah she seems to like those two. The thing is that immediately after that line, she started listing Sariel, Kuro, Ariel, and Oka. The phrasing seemed...I can't really describe it.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Amuris

that's the weird thing about it. She's referring to more than one person, right? So it isn't just Oka. She doesn't seem to think badly of Julius. (now that I think about it, we keep forgetting that Julius isn't dead yet in our discussions) There's also the old sword emperor who died stalling Kyouya. So, yeah she seems to like those two. The thing is that immediately after that line, she started listing Sariel, Kuro, Ariel, and Oka. The phrasing seemed...I can't really describe it.

Sariel and Oka are the ones she definitely approve of, as she describe them as the ones who do that just before that sentence.

Ariel is an unknown, because she makes lots of effort for her. Kuro I don't think so.

[cabman11]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Sariel and Oka are the ones she definitely approve of, as she describe them as the ones who do that just before that sentence.

Ariel is an unknown, because she makes lots of effort for her. Kuro I don't think so.

She thinks they're stupid for wasting their lives to protect others in a free for all survival of the fittest world

[Amuris]

@cabman

I swear, it's like your caught in some old Arifureta high. Even before you said the end result of every story should be the MC being the strongest being in the universe. You understand this isn't that kinda story, right? In this story, characters besides the MC are ACTUALLY characters, rather than tools the make the MC look good.

in short, your perspective is like your trying to apply some 12 year olds notion of cool to this story.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by cabman11

She thinks they're stupid for wasting their lives to protect others in a free for all survival of the fittest world

Yes, and she thinks the worst thing is that those stupid people are always the one she approves of.
E.G, she is tsuntsun.

[kari-no-sugata II]

To explain a bit my previous comment...

Shiro says that all the people she approves of happen to be self-sacrificing idiots. She certainly doesn't imply that she approves of self-sacrifice. She looks down on those as idiots. Ie it's more like "Ooh, I like what this person did. I approve of them. I'll definitely try to help you now. What? Why are you being so stupid!? Argh! Okay then. I'll save you from your own stupidity."

The only one I'm certain is in this approval list is Oka-chan, who saved Shiro when she was still a little spider on Earth. I suggested Shun too - he's definitely a self-sacrificing idiot and I seem to remember someone saying that Shun also happened to save Shiro when she was a spider on Earth though maybe I'm remembering wrong - I haven't fully read through all the untranslated chapters. It's also suspicious that she teleported to Shun just when he acquired Taboo lvl 10, but obviously we don't know why and it could be a coincidence.

For the others...

For the Goddess, while I think Shiro was happy enough with the "voice of heaven" I don't get any sense that she has any mercy for the Goddess. If Shiro approved of the Goddess I think she'd want to try to save her somehow but I don't get that feeling at all.

For Kuro, he did introduce her to the existence of alcohol. But she's also prepared to battle him and again I don't get any sense of mercy. I think she'd rather not fight Kuro if she can avoid it though. He's also more of an indecisive idiot than self-sacrificing idiot, though he also seems willing to face the wrath of D for the sake of his convictions.

Ariel is an interesting one. I'm on the fence here. It's a bit hard to tell if Ariel is sacrificing herself somehow - she seemed to let herself become the Demon King after avoiding it for so long. Becoming the Demon King isn't a long term job while the Hero system is around. Shiro seems to know more than she's telling about this too. So does Shiro approve of Ariel? I certainly think it's possible and she does seem to see Ariel as an ally, even while going behind her back. I'm sure 3 years of yummy food helped too


PS It's not 100% certain but I think Shiro means that she approves of multiple people. It's more implied that it's multiple though.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

To explain a bit my previous comment...

Shiro says that all the people she approves of happen to be self-sacrificing idiots. She certainly doesn't imply that she approves of self-sacrifice. She looks down on those as idiots. Ie it's more like "Ooh, I like what this person did. I approve of them. I'll definitely try to help you now. What? Why are you being so stupid!? Argh! Okay then. I'll save you from your own stupidity."

Yup. Except I am pretty sure a part of why she likes them is that stupidity.

The only one I'm certain is in this approval list is Oka-chan, who saved Shiro when she was still a little spider on Earth. I suggested Shun too - he's definitely a self-sacrificing idiot and I seem to remember someone saying that Shun also happened to save Shiro when she was a spider on Earth though maybe I'm remembering wrong - I haven't fully read through all the untranslated chapters. It's also suspicious that she teleported to Shun just when he acquired Taboo lvl 10, but obviously we don't know why and it could be a coincidence.

For the others...

For the Goddess, while I think Shiro was happy enough with the "voice of heaven" I don't get any sense that she has any mercy for the Goddess. If Shiro approved of the Goddess I think she'd want to try to save her somehow but I don't get that feeling at all.

I look at the Goddess. Sensei for one, the Goddess for another, I wonder why they are trying to devote their lives to such pointless things? Scum will be scum. No matter how far you go they won’t be saved. Why don’t they get that? Also, why are they able to sacrifice themselves in order to try to save that lot? It’s incomprehensible.

Ah, I’m annoyed. What do they think of their own lives? Isn’t desperately struggling to stay alive what living creatures are supposed to be about? But they are doing nothing but going out of their way to waste their own lives. What makes me even angrier is that everyone I approve of does such things.

It's pretty clear that when she thinks of what does those things, it's Oka-chan and Sariel. She doesn't think once of Shun then (and doesn't know him that much at the time).

Ariel is an interesting one. I'm on the fence here. It's a bit hard to tell if Ariel is sacrificing herself somehow - she seemed to let herself become the Demon King after avoiding it for so long. Becoming the Demon King isn't a long term job while the Hero system is around. Shiro seems to know more than she's telling about this too. So does Shiro approve of Ariel? I certainly think it's possible and she does seem to see Ariel as an ally, even while going behind her back. I'm sure 3 years of yummy food helped too

She also spends a fuck ton of effort trying to help Ariel.

[Amuris]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

I seem to remember someone saying that Shun also happened to save Shiro when she was a spider on Earth though maybe I'm remembering wrong

Almost completely sure that didn't happen. Could be wrong here. Anyone else know?