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Old 2017-07-15, 14:36   Link #681
Random14
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Stain's interesting in that there's a little bit of merit to his argument, but he's way too extreme. Especially since he's more intent on causing social change than really chasing down "unworthy" heroes.

Cool to see Grand Torino tackle that Noumu out of the train, he's certainly badass. I'm glad Manual tried to talk to Iida. Iida's reasons for choosing that particular area to intern in are pretty obvious, and he's trying to talk Iida out of it, but... Iida's too obsessed at the moment. At least Stain has some standards, as Iida wasn't a target initially, even as a potential witness.

Not sure if this is spoilers (background info), but yeah, all quirks are regulated and you're not supposed to use them, or at least not too flashy (which is why Bakugo can get away with breaking things but not direct attacks of course). Its why Eraserhead reminds them to bring their costumes when they left, that costume signifies they are official heroes and thus can use their quirks. Its probably why you don't see people flying around more often, strict regulation keeps society stable. While being a superhero sounds glamorous (and can be, as we saw with that model), its also means being a civil servant, with rules and duties and all that. Iida going off alone for revenge is definitely against the rules (not to mention ignoring the bigger crisis with all those Noumus attacking everywhere). Its not a perfect system, and we see quite a few heroes who are... less than perfect (and at least one who is a horrible person but is very competent), but killing them is way too extreme.

Nice to see how everyone else is doing with their internships too. Ha, even Bakugo's hair explodes! And Midoriya is getting there to using One For All more naturally.
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Old 2017-07-15, 15:01   Link #682
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Yeah, pretty much. Stain's stance isn't unreasonable only for his methods; it's unreasonable because it's unrealistic to assume someone could possibly devote the huge amount of effort, training, etc. not to mention personal risk of life and limb needed for the cause of heroism without getting at least a decent living out of it. We don't berate firemen or doctors for getting a salary out of their life-saving activity. Of course, shitstains like Endeavour give a bad name to the profession itself - but without corruption or complacency, someone like him could and should be jailed for abuse, in a manner completely unrelated to his powers or heroic activities. On the other hand, someone like Uraraka, who aims at just being a middle-of-the-road hero who makes some money while helping people is still contributing more to the common good than a lot of people who work in less socially useful enterprises do. If real life superpowers appeared, I think MHA or One Punch Man describe what superheroism would look like much more realistically than old time Marvel comics.
I don't think superheroism is realistic even with superpowers. I think we'd have something more like Top Ten, where people who want to fight crime just enroll in the police force. It's just how we work.
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Old 2017-07-15, 15:57   Link #683
Gan_HOPE326
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I don't think superheroism is realistic even with superpowers. I think we'd have something more like Top Ten, where people who want to fight crime just enroll in the police force. It's just how we work.
Flashy costumes aside (which even in MHA's world are a direct consequence of there being superhero fiction that people wanted to imitate, obviously; the initial blurb in Season 1 referred to superhero as 'the profession that many dreamed of'), that's basically what's happening here. Hero agencies are merely a bit more independent and operate as private companies, that's just a matter of legal framing, but still, they operate with governmental licenses and in close cooperation with the police. And think of it from a PR point of view - a recognisable superhero would be AMAZING for that aspect (and if strong enough, a deterrent for criminals). So in a way this isn't necessarily too farfetched a scenario IMHO, of course discounting the obvious exaggerations for the sake of a more entertaining and spectacular show.
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Old 2017-07-15, 16:58   Link #684
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Flashy costumes aside (which even in MHA's world are a direct consequence of there being superhero fiction that people wanted to imitate, obviously; the initial blurb in Season 1 referred to superhero as 'the profession that many dreamed of'), that's basically what's happening here. Hero agencies are merely a bit more independent and operate as private companies, that's just a matter of legal framing, but still, they operate with governmental licenses and in close cooperation with the police. And think of it from a PR point of view - a recognisable superhero would be AMAZING for that aspect (and if strong enough, a deterrent for criminals). So in a way this isn't necessarily too farfetched a scenario IMHO, of course discounting the obvious exaggerations for the sake of a more entertaining and spectacular show.
And that independence is exactly what I think is unrealistic. "Heroes" just... deciding where they'll set up shop, when they'll patrol, competing and getting in each other's way while the crime is in progress...
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Old 2017-07-15, 17:57   Link #685
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Credit for Manual for trying...but he didn't push hard enough. Guess he never figured he'd be in a position to have to counsel someone with a higher ceiling than him as a hero on an issue like this.

Certainly this episode showed how some heroes really aren't interested in that classic ideal. Momo is basically acting as an idol's entourage instead of actually getting on the ground experience as a hero. It's fine to make a living, but some do seem more interested in simply enriching themselves than helping people.

In the end though randomly attacking people is hardly the answer. Stain isn't bothering to see whether someone is a qualified hero (in his ideal), he's just attacking/killing a certain number in each town to create change. We didn't get much from Iida's brother, but he hardly seemed like the type of hero that Stain should have been eager to take down.
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Old 2017-07-15, 19:29   Link #686
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
It can be argued that it's a fine line, but those people don't use their quirks for fame or money. When the woman superhero earlier was posing for a photo shoot, that's all it was. She's pretty hot, she works as a model; being a hero made her famous but she's not showing off her quirk now. Yeah, it's maybe not much better than using your powers to put up a show, but the law isn't preoccupied with morals, it's about safety: it bans people from using their quirk irresponsibly because quirks are weapons and as such are put under strict control. Stain's point is much wider - it's about what constitutes a worthy hero.
I don't know, I'd say they are using their quirks for fame and money. Even taking out the side jobs that the snake girl was making money from, she still makes money from any heroic deeds she does using her quirk. Think about it and apply to our own world. We can easily replace "quirks" with "talents" or "skills". Let's say, I have a talent for analytical thinking or dancing. I hone and train that skill from years of education and/or training and now work as a research scientist or a professional dancer. I am using my talents of analytical thinking and dancing to now gain fame and money.

So, in that why, I think that all heroes use their quirks for their own gain. However, as you said, quirks are weapons and are thus under strict regulation like a gun would be (at least in Japan,I would be interested in seeing how the rest of the world regulates quirks ).

So, no you can't use your quirk for your own personal violence, and as what has been said about heroes, they are now civil servants so their use of their quirk is even more regulated and they can't simply use it for their own personal grudges or personal side jobs, but I do think that's different from saying that you can't use your quirks for your own personal gain at all, since "personal gain" is very general and broad a notion.

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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Yeah, pretty much. Stain's stance isn't unreasonable only for his methods; it's unreasonable because it's unrealistic to assume someone could possibly devote the huge amount of effort, training, etc. not to mention personal risk of life and limb needed for the cause of heroism without getting at least a decent living out of it. We don't berate firemen or doctors for getting a salary out of their life-saving activity. Of course, shitstains like Endeavour give a bad name to the profession itself - but without corruption or complacency, someone like him could and should be jailed for abuse, in a manner completely unrelated to his powers or heroic activities. On the other hand, someone like Uraraka, who aims at just being a middle-of-the-road hero who makes some money while helping people is still contributing more to the common good than a lot of people who work in less socially useful enterprises do. If real life superpowers appeared, I think MHA or One Punch Man describe what superheroism would look like much more realistically than old time Marvel comics.
I was going to say that basically Stain's world would be much more like the Golden and Silver Age of DC and Marvel comics, where pretty much the large majority of superheroes don't get paid for what they do. Most of them are just driven for personal reasons and either have money backing them or have a separate actual job. It's not realistic, but that's never really been the aim of the superhero genre. It has always been to basically create something extraordinary from out of the ordinary. It's why they add the "super" to the heroes.
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Old 2017-07-16, 01:57   Link #687
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And that independence is exactly what I think is unrealistic. "Heroes" just... deciding where they'll set up shop, when they'll patrol, competing and getting in each other's way while the crime is in progress...
It's not that unrealistic. The US have private prisons. Private security companies exist. What heroes would be is a private leg of the law enforcement system, working together with the police. You may find that politically unsavoury for a number of understandable reasons, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Consider that the current status quo can only have been reached as the end point of a long process of appeasement and compromise. Quirks appeared, then independent vigilante superheroes appeared, then some control and regulation had to be introduced before the world descended into chaos. This is the solution this specific country and society came up with and managed to enforce. It's not the only possible one but to me it's at least believable.

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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I was going to say that basically Stain's world would be much more like the Golden and Silver Age of DC and Marvel comics, where pretty much the large majority of superheroes don't get paid for what they do. Most of them are just driven for personal reasons and either have money backing them or have a separate actual job. It's not realistic, but that's never really been the aim of the superhero genre. It has always been to basically create something extraordinary from out of the ordinary. It's why they add the "super" to the heroes.
Well, no, the "super" is what is known as a "miraculous exception". Many people make this argument that as soon as a story has ONE fantastic element then it may as well take more liberties, but I think this is rather misguided. There certainly are stories like that - from Alice in Wonderland to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann - but a lot of sci-fi stories (and superheroes are an offshoot of sci-fi) would rather only introduce one fantastical element and then work out its consequences in an otherwise coherent and realistic world. This is exactly what MHA sets out to do.
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Old 2017-07-16, 02:55   Link #688
Anh_Minh
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Credit for Manual for trying...but he didn't push hard enough. Guess he never figured he'd be in a position to have to counsel someone with a higher ceiling than him as a hero on an issue like this.
He certainly didn't expect Iida to run into Stain right there and then... Or ever. Just because they're patrolling the same sector doesn't mean they'll be in the right place at the right time to catch Stain.

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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
It's not that unrealistic. The US have private prisons. Private security companies exist. What heroes would be is a private leg of the law enforcement system, working together with the police. You may find that politically unsavoury for a number of understandable reasons, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Consider that the current status quo can only have been reached as the end point of a long process of appeasement and compromise. Quirks appeared, then independent vigilante superheroes appeared, then some control and regulation had to be introduced before the world descended into chaos. This is the solution this specific country and society came up with and managed to enforce. It's not the only possible one but to me it's at least believable.
Oh, I can see private super security guarding expensive places. It's not the same as giving law enforcement over to a myriad of small private militias. Even economically, it wouldn't be sustainable. It works in fiction, but in reality, no one would ever be where they were needed. There wouldn't be any big bucks in walking around town looking silly and never fighting anyone.
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Old 2017-07-16, 08:05   Link #689
Gan_HOPE326
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Oh, I can see private super security guarding expensive places. It's not the same as giving law enforcement over to a myriad of small private militias. Even economically, it wouldn't be sustainable. It works in fiction, but in reality, no one would ever be where they were needed. There wouldn't be any big bucks in walking around town looking silly and never fighting anyone.
We don't know fully how the organisation works, how much independence do hero offices have (my impression is: not much), and so on. We know they make at least part of their bucks from side activities (photo shoots, advertising, possibly merchandise?). I also think it was said at some point that they receive State funding. One thing is for sure: it is strongly implied that the crime rate in the world of quirks is greatly increased. Gran Torino was bringing along Deku to Shibuya where apparently "there's also some scuffles happening". In real life Japan has an incredibly low crime rate and Shibuya is an high end shopping neighbourhood. I was walking there just a couple weeks ago... it's amazingly clean and ordered, really not the place where you imagine thugs and robbers having a field day on a regular basis. So obviously this is a Japan where you can just walk around and stumble into some criminal activity - a far cry from the real present day one.
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Old 2017-07-18, 12:03   Link #690
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We don't know fully how the organisation works, how much independence do hero offices have (my impression is: not much), and so on. We know they make at least part of their bucks from side activities (photo shoots, advertising, possibly merchandise?). I also think it was said at some point that they receive State funding. One thing is for sure: it is strongly implied that the crime rate in the world of quirks is greatly increased. Gran Torino was bringing along Deku to Shibuya where apparently "there's also some scuffles happening". In real life Japan has an incredibly low crime rate and Shibuya is an high end shopping neighbourhood. I was walking there just a couple weeks ago... it's amazingly clean and ordered, really not the place where you imagine thugs and robbers having a field day on a regular basis. So obviously this is a Japan where you can just walk around and stumble into some criminal activity - a far cry from the real present day one.
Nearly everyone, including the criminals, having superpowers would tend to upset the status quo a bit. Fights between individuals being a common occurrence during the nighttime is hardly a new or uncommon trope anyway, even in cultures where it's uncommon in reality.
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Old 2017-07-19, 04:18   Link #691
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Nearly everyone, including the criminals, having superpowers would tend to upset the status quo a bit. Fights between individuals being a common occurrence during the nighttime is hardly a new or uncommon trope anyway, even in cultures where it's uncommon in reality.
Yeah. obviously. What I think is that in the MHA world the appearance of quirks has emboldened thugs and criminals, thus leading to a rise in incidents, even in Japan. That probably got really bad (between crime and impromptu vigilantism) before it got better. And the current status quo - with rigidly regulated hero agencies - was the best compromise that could be reached. Within the framework of this vastly different society it isn't unbelievable.
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Old 2017-07-19, 05:14   Link #692
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And that independence is exactly what I think is unrealistic. "Heroes" just... deciding where they'll set up shop, when they'll patrol, competing and getting in each other's way while the crime is in progress...
It's less "unrealistic" and more "unfamiliar".

MHA's world isn't a safe uneventful extension of our current world, it's actually had massive turmoil due to emergence of superpowers in the past. The society is completely re-structured with core concept of majority of citizens having super powers.

We don't see it because of the familiarity of the world to ours, but the base foundation of the society is shaken and reformed already. It's more or less comparable to Star Trek universe at this point.
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Old 2017-07-19, 06:04   Link #693
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Basically, the main reason why massive chaotic villain uprisings aren't a thing is because quirk usage is so heavily regulated already?
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Old 2017-07-19, 07:26   Link #694
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And that independence is exactly what I think is unrealistic. "Heroes" just... deciding where they'll set up shop, when they'll patrol, competing and getting in each other's way while the crime is in progress...
It's a cultural thing. I live in a country where "the wild west" still has a large cultural impact and where "rugged individualism" is a virtue, and the setting of BNH seems fairly logical to me given the obvious differences in history.
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Old 2017-07-19, 14:11   Link #695
ChronoReverse
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Basically, the main reason why massive chaotic villain uprisings aren't a thing is because quirk usage is so heavily regulated already?
It's specifically no longer a thing because of All Might. We might criticize the fragility of the "Symbol of Peace" that he championed, but that was literally (and I'm not using it figuratively lol) the reason why the MHA universe appears to be stable nowadays.
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Old 2017-07-19, 15:31   Link #696
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It's specifically no longer a thing because of All Might. We might criticize the fragility of the "Symbol of Peace" that he championed, but that was literally (and I'm not using it figuratively lol) the reason why the MHA universe appears to be stable nowadays.
But he's the 8th holder of the power. A lot of time must have passed since the appearance of Quirks. Surely the worst of the anarchy must have been before his birth.
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Old 2017-07-19, 16:12   Link #697
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But he's the 8th holder of the power. A lot of time must have passed since the appearance of Quirks. Surely the worst of the anarchy must have been before his birth.
That's one possible reason, yes...
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Old 2017-07-19, 16:16   Link #698
Anh_Minh
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But he's the 8th holder of the power. A lot of time must have passed since the appearance of Quirks. Surely the worst of the anarchy must have been before his birth.
Not necessarily. He also said there used to be more quirklesses (though by the time he came around, they were already rare). Quirk demography may have put "the worst of the anarchy" shortly before he became the symbol of peace.
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Old 2017-07-19, 16:20   Link #699
Gan_HOPE326
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Not necessarily. He also said there used to be more quirklesses (though by the time he came around, they were already rare). Quirk demography may have put "the worst of the anarchy" shortly before he became the symbol of peace.
Ok, if All for One was created as soon as Quirks were born, that might be.
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Old 2017-07-20, 01:10   Link #700
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Oh right, it didn't occur to me that All Might came from a time where being quirkless wasn't quite as uncommon.
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