News Stories

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

There we go again. Since I didn't make my point clear enough last time, let's try this again.

I get it: there are visitors in Singapore who are giving China bad image. I believe you. I don't need to check the details to know such things happen. Whether the Singapore government has spine or not is not my concern. Why should I? (Although I'd like to visit Singapore if I have the chance. It is a great city, so I heard, but so far the chance has not come yet.) If someone break the law, they should be punished, be them Chinese or Singapore. I believe that's something we can agree on. But alas, that was not the point that I was trying to make.

Let's start from square one again. You, sir, dropped the F-word. I tried to remind you that you might want to soft your words and make it more selective lest someone is offended. After all, we are all civilized fun-loving people here, or at least, most of us are. You don't want to target a great range of people. There is no grudge again anybody. But what did I get in return, even after I fully declared that I am a Chinese? Here I am going to quote what you said again.


SO I HAPPEN TO BE A CHINESE CITIZEN. RIGHT HERE! REPLYING TO YOUR POSTS! Did I get any respect? Are you implying I blackmailed someone? Are you saying that I should be "educated" to "show respect"? Yet you wonder why I am offended. If you don't want to sound like a racist, don't make such general statements. People WILL get offended. That's my point all along, and that's the only point that I am making now.

Edit: Now that I think about it, you owe me a tour of the city so we can convince each other that we are good people. See, that's how you "blackmail" people.

I think his point was that what caused resentment wasn't merely a few Chinese causing trouble in Singapore, but the local government letting them get away with it because of pressure from the PRC government.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

China attracts large number of investors due to the large number of goods, AND the yuan being pegged at a low rate, that allows large profits to be made by the reseller due to the low operating cost. All sounds nice and effective, but when price comes into play, it won't last for long.

The Keynesian Economics had a very basic rule titled "value-normalisation". What China is doing is effectively devaluating their exports, if they don't raise the yuan now, or increase the quality of goods exported, it is going to severely normalise product valuation all around the world - which effectively takes away the incentive for aesthetic (arts), social (science and education) and material (infrastructure and technology) improvement. It could very well end up as a giant factory state which would bring them, and their closely tied SEA counterparts into the times of the Opium War, a perfect scenario for the already divided world society to fragment further.

If the quality of all poorly made Chinese goods was uniform, and everyone had to buy those cheap Chinese goods, then value-normalization might hold water. Quality is something that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and how integrated the manufacturer is to their end customer. Assuming there was uniformly poor quality, there are still emerging manufacturing centers in Vietnam and Cambodia that are being developed by foreign companies as an alternative to China with price or quality or smaller bribes being the impetus. This goes without mentioning local and homegrown alternatives.

While the country's sheer industrial volume allows it to artificially extend the viability of its low cost exports, it will most likely follow in the footsteps of the Four Asian Tigers soon enough when they iron out the rampant inflation they've been going through and establish a middle and lower-middle class with a more substantial purchasing power. Currently the country itself does not have the firms or infrastructure to take advantage of all their available educated workforce, however.

I find the bit about descending "into the times of the Opium War" quite odd, as the Southeast Asian countries that had been greatly exploited by imperialists have already had many of their economies irreparably skewed to being export-driven with island nations having a strong dependence on importing food, and price of food thereof, for subsistence. Do you expect them to be taken over by pseudo-imperial multinationals like Cargill or just fade into an obscure crust of foreign exploitation?

[aohige]

Those economics mumbo-jumbo gives me headaches.
But answer me this, if the middle class bracket becomes established as majority, and The education level of average citizen becomes more modernized, could we hope for the downfall of PRC and ironic victory of Mr Liu's dream fulfilled?
Or is that wishing for miracles.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by aohige

Those economics mumbo-jumbo gives me headaches.
But answer me this, if the middle class bracket becomes established as majority, and The education level of average citizen becomes more modernized, could we hope for the downfall of PRC and ironic victory of Mr Liu's dream fulfilled?
Or is that wishing for miracles.

I think at best you'd just see a transition to a more open/lenient government rather than the current system getting replaced institutionally, but this is arguably the natural direction of things considering the progress (however gradual) since the end of the Cultural Revolution. Russia is right next door and their dramatic turn into a democracy doesn't really spread good vibes about a sudden change. Additionally, people are content if they can make money and can afford a living. The older generation of Chinese were told to think of politics all time time and not care about being dirt poor for so many years. Now that people can earn money, better paying jobs, homes, cars and foreign brand names are probably what is on everyone's conscience.

It might be hard from our perspective outside of China to reconcile a lack of political freedom with any level of contentedness, but just remember many Chinese grew up in much worse than current conditions and being able to make and spend money is somewhat liberating in and of itself.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

There we go again. Since I didn't make my point clear enough last time, let's try this again.

I get it: there are visitors in Singapore who are giving China bad image. I believe you. I don't need to check the details to know such things happen. Whether the Singapore government has spine or not is not my concern. Why should I? (Although I'd like to visit Singapore if I have the chance. It is a great city, so I heard, but so far the chance has not come yet.) If someone break the law, they should be punished, be them Chinese or Singapore. I believe that's something we can agree on. But alas, that was not the point that I was trying to make.

Let's start from square one again. You, sir, dropped the F-word. I tried to remind you that you might want to soft your words and make it more selective lest someone is offended. After all, we are all civilized fun-loving people here, or at least, most of us are. You don't want to target a great range of people. There is no grudge again anybody. But what did I get in return, even after I fully declared that I am a Chinese? Here I am going to quote what you said again.

There is nothing wrong with asking an asinine foreigner to f*** off if they come here and insult the host country's way of life right?

That is where you are being a complete genius where it seems that you get turned off or offended by a simple "F**" word. Try to differentiate sticks and stones - I am not against all the Chinese like you put it to be, but rather, the majority of the emigrants who turn out to be assholes using the prominence of the rising China behind them. It is a shock that the assholes turn out to be a majority rather than minority.

Being a guest has the right to impose a "soft invasion". Host-guest relationship is to be completely mutual, especially in terms of respect. It is not an invader-submitter relationship.

SO I HAPPEN TO BE A CHINESE CITIZEN. RIGHT HERE! REPLYING TO YOUR POSTS! Did I get any respect? Are you implying I blackmailed someone? Are you saying that I should be "educated" to "show respect"? Yet you wonder why I am offended. If you don't want to sound like a racist, don't make such general statements. People WILL get offended. That's my point all along, and that's the only point that I am making now.

Edit: Now that I think about it, you owe me a tour of the city so we can convince each other that we are good people. See, that's how you "blackmail" people.

Do me a favour. Please read.

However, certain guests somehow exploit the niceness of the locals to their own advantage for personal gain, be it emotional or material.

It was already iterated in an earlier sentence that it was directed at the certain mainland Chinese who choose to go out of their country to find work, yet try to impose their culture upon their hosts. What I am trying to iterate is pretty much Anh_Minh condensed into a single sentence.

I think you burned yourself out generalising that all Chinese are from China; having an ancestry there doesn't mean we are proxy plants rooted to that place - it is a race, not a nationality, that is why I used a more detailed term "China Chinese" in my second post, and there you go shouting and screaming after doing some selective reading.

Besides, what right does China have to impose on Chinese who are born and grow up in a different land? That line you bolded is directed at the mainland Chinese who visited other countries and set a bad example of themselves and the place they come from, so if you are not one of them, why get so worked up?

Originally Posted by Decagon

If the quality of all poorly made Chinese goods was uniform, and everyone had to buy those cheap Chinese goods, then value-normalization might hold water. Quality is something that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and how integrated the manufacturer is to their end customer. Assuming there was uniformly poor quality, there are still emerging manufacturing centers in Vietnam and Cambodia that are being developed by foreign companies as an alternative to China with price or quality or smaller bribes being the impetus. This goes without mentioning local and homegrown alternatives.

While the country's sheer industrial volume allows it to artificially extend the viability of its low cost exports, it will most likely follow in the footsteps of the Four Asian Tigers soon enough when they iron out the rampant inflation they've been going through and establish a middle and lower-middle class with a more substantial purchasing power. Currently the country itself does not have the firms or infrastructure to take advantage of all their available educated workforce, however.

It is much like a problem in US now - the major "opportunity divide" rather than income divide itself. The smaller magistrates/states tend to value experience rather than the academic meritocracy from the local education system, effectively nullifying the usefulness of getting further education the Head of State tries promote as a form of equality for all citizens.

However, it is also interesting to note that China's new "One Child Policy" can possibly create a "Me generation" where single children have more purchasing power than their counterparts with siblings where family have to share income between their kids. This can lead to a higher volume of consumerism, but apparently also more self-serving behaviour in the next generation.

I find the bit about descending "into the times of the Opium War" quite odd, as the Southeast Asian countries that had been greatly exploited by imperialists have already had many of their economies irreparably skewed to being export-driven with island nations having a strong dependence on importing food, and price of food thereof, for subsistence. Do you expect them to be taken over by pseudo-imperial multinationals like Cargill or just fade into an obscure crust of foreign exploitation?

From a local perspective, I would say that there has been some "counter-exploitation" by the SEA countries and the island nations where the SEA countries, using their internalised advantage from infrastructure and technology, as well as the political environment, to get some advantages over the "imperialists". For example, back in the 1960s and 1970s, I believe the British kept a significant detachment of the SAS in Brunei, Malaysia and Singapore to counter Communist agents instead of bringing that home.

And the part of the opium war directly relates to the trade scenario back between the Qing dynasty and the British Empire - where both sides attempted to exploit each other than end up with a war of attrition. As usual the bigger party wins, much like the slave trade at the point of the age of exploration.

[JMvS]

Well, for what I've experienced of mainland and diaspora Chinese peoples, I'd say that most (fresh) mainlanders are quite ignorant of the outside World; and government and local media don't help by going all about Middle Kingdom and local achievements.

Thus when facing ethnic Chinese oversea, they are generally oblivious of the complex love/hate relationships long established communities might have toward China.

In the education I received, continental China and its denizen were depicted in very unflattering terms (which I'd better not summarize), and that was in a family of Chinese origins (18th century onward philipino mestizos), some relatives and connections even being 100% ethnic Chinese (diaspora prior to 1949).

Similarly, I noticed that several communities, especially the older ones, have developed particular cultures (Perakanang and the tsinoy mozaic come to my mind). And in the case of several 20th century establishment, they have developed some defiance toward anything coming from the PRC (pretty much every Chinese that left China during the 20th century up to the 90's).

Personally, I often happen to smirk when The Great Chinese Culture and its Achievements is used by the PRC to bolster national pride, for I recall many diaspora Chinese pointing at how diligent it was at erasing it prior to the reforms...


OT: For those in or near Paris, there's a pretty interesting exposition on Perakanang culture there in the Musée Quai Branly, the title being Baba Bling...

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by JMvS

Personally, I often happen to smirk when The Great Chinese Culture and its Achievements is used by the PRC to bolster national pride, for I recall many diaspora Chinese pointing at how diligent it was at erasing it prior to the reforms...

I take this to be an ignorant remark. Nominally there is only one political party in China, but the CCP is just an umbrella term for the elite (edit: as in elitist) group of lawmakers and administrators of the country. This organization is not of one mind or body, especially if you consider the time gap between the Mao/Gang of Four era and the present day. Hell, even during their time there was considerable opposition in the CCP to what was being done to the country but the opposition whose philosophies are more represented in modern China did not have the political power to oppose the standing leadership without being killed off or arrested or being entirely marginalized from the political process to where they wouldn't be able to moderate Mao's extremism.

[MeoTwister5]

To even say that the CCP of present is even close to anything Mao envisioned more than 50 years ago is a joke. The Marxism in Communist China is practically left to government, general politics and speech/human rights. Economically it's getting pretty close to capitalism with heavy handed government regulation, which is ironic considering Marx first intended it to be a socioeconomic revolution before a large scale political one.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Decagon

I take this to be an ignorant remark. Nominally there is only one political party in China, but the CCP is just an umbrella term for the elite (edit: as in elitist) group of lawmakers and administrators of the country. This organization is not of one mind or body, especially if you consider the time gap between the Mao/Gang of Four era and the present day. Hell, even during their time there was considerable opposition in the CCP to what was being done to the country but the opposition whose philosophies are more represented in modern China did not have the political power to oppose the standing leadership without being killed off or arrested or being entirely marginalized from the political process to where they wouldn't be able to moderate Mao's extremism.

I am well aware that things are more complex than a monolithic ever similar CCP. And I've been trough enough domestic literature to feel past and present dissent and the sense of loss events such as the Cultural Revolution resulted in.

The thing is, even if it was the doing of a minority within the CCP, prior to the reforms several elements of Chinese culture had been extirpated as a results of those times policies and turmoils. As a result this period consequences do cover the whole population.

Hence, there is a lingering feeling of superiority within long established communities toward post Cultural Revolution newcomers: perception being that the latter not only rudely try to impose their chineseness, but that it is a degraded one they carry, compared to the more preserved forms of overseas communities.

Simply put, mainland China is far far away in both distance and time, and of course I feel closer to the community I originate in, and assume their stances, for biased they might be.

[yezhanquan]

If I want to learn more about classical China, I would go to Korea or Japan, then maybe Taiwan. The Chinese mainland would be last.

As for Mao: Initially, he was the first among equals, then he went "a little" bonkers.

[Frenchie]

Obama signs into law New NASA Program

To all of those QQing about Constellation.

[ganbaru]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1752947/
This isn't really surprising me.

[SeijiSensei]

China broadened its retaliation against Norway on Tuesday for the selection of a Chinese dissident for the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize, cancelling a second cabinet-level meeting and a Norwegian cultural event in China.

Ooh, I bet the Norwegians are trembling in fear.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Obama signs into law New NASA Program

To all of those QQing about Constellation.

That is a good news.....once in a while.

The other one being this :

Chile's trapped miners finally set to escape

(Reuters) - The first of 33 trapped miners will be pulled to safety in capsules just wider than a man's shoulders on Tuesday night as a two-month ordeal deep inside a Chilean mine draws to an end.

The men have spent 68 days in the hot, humid bowels of a gold and copper mine in Chile's northern Atacama desert after an August 5 collapse. They now face a claustrophobic journey to the surface in the specially-made capsules, equipped with oxygen masks and escape hatches in case they get stuck.

Wives, children, parents and friends waited nervously on an arid, rocky hillside around 2,050 feet directly above the miners, and rescue teams planned to start hoisting the men to safety from around 6 p.m. (2100 GMT).

"Right now I'm calm, though still very anxious. I hope my nerves don't betray me when the rescue starts," said Jessica Salgado, whose husband Alex is trapped below.

"The first thing I'm going to do is hug him hard, tell him how much I love him, and how I've missed him all this time," she added.

Rescuers on Monday successfully tested a capsule, dubbed "Phoenix" after the mythical bird that rose from the ashes, after they partially lined the narrow escape shaft with metal tubes to prevent rocks falling and causing a last-minute disaster.

Engineers said the final stage of the rescue still had its risks but that the capsule was handling well in the shaft, and they expected a smooth extraction. The miners will be hoisted out one at a time in a two-day operation.

Rescuers originally found the men, miraculously all alive, 17 days after the mine's collapse with a bore hole the width of grapefruit. It then served as an umbilical cord used to pass hydration gels, water and food, as well as letters from their families and soccer videos to keep their spirits up.

The men have set a world record for the length of time workers have survived underground after a mining accident, and have been doing exercises to keep their weight down for their ascent.

Medics say some of the men are psychologically fragile and may struggle with stress for a long time after their rescue.

AN AGONIZING WAIT

Many relatives held vigils over the past two months at a tent settlement dubbed "Camp Hope" above the mine, and more people joined as the climax neared.

Noemi Donoso, whose 43-year-old son-in-law Samuel Avalos is among the trapped, sat praying in a tent with four family members, their hands joined together to form a circle, singing hymns and chanting "hallelujah" and "glory to God."

Her daughter had just left to have her hair done in a makeshift hairdressers in another of the camp's tents.

"She went to the salon to get fixed up so she can look pretty when she receives him," Donoso said, as excited school children ran around the camp with face paint on.

Once the evacuations start, it will take 48 hours to extract the men. Rescuers will first be lowered to help the miners prepare to return to the surface.

Each man's journey through solid rock to safety should take about 12 to 15 minutes. They will have their eyes closed and will be given dark glasses to avoid damaging their eyesight after spending so long in a dimly lit tunnel. They will then be under observation at a nearby hospital for two days.

President Sebastian Pinera, who ordered a revamp of Chile's mine safety regulations after the accident, planned to visit the mine on Tuesday afternoon.

The entire nation, still recovering from a devastating earthquake and ensuing tsunamis in February, prepared to celebrate.

Daniel Marin, 47, whose friends were trapped down in the mine, stood on a hilltop above the mine, waving a Chilean red, white and blue flag.

"Everybody in Chile and the world should see this as a sign that we should never lose hope. That we need to remember our collective humanity, and not get lost in a world of egotism and consumerism," he said.

One of the 33 miners is a Bolivian national and Bolivian President Evo Morales has vowed to visit the mine for his rescue.

[cors8]

Judge issues worldwide injuction on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

It's about time.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

That is a good news.....once in a while.

The other one being this :

Chile's trapped miners finally set to escape

I had been under the impression that it was going to take significantly longer to get those guys out of there. Did they come up with some new rescue method that was much faster?

Thank god those guys will be out of there soon though.

Originally Posted by cors8

Judge issues worldwide injuction on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

It's about time.

Very nice. I'd wait awhile before celebrating. At least until the military goes about an actually officially removes the policy from the books.

Though DADT has been on the way out for a while now...If I recall correctly the military released a new set of regulations with regards to how DADT was carried out, that effectively made it much more cumbersome to use it to kick servicemen/women out of the armed forces.

[flying ^]

Legalizing pot won't hinder Mexican cartels

Mexico's drug traffickers are likely to lose customers in America's largest pot consuming state if California legalizes marijuana, but they won't lose much money overall because California's residents already prefer to grow their own, according to a study released Tuesday.

That means the proposal on the state's November ballot to legalize marijuana also will do little to quell the drug gangs' violent and sophisticated organizations that generate billions of dollars a year, according to the study by the nonpartisan RAND Drug Policy Research Center.

Californians, who make up one-seventh of the U.S. marijuana market, already are farming marijuana at a much higher rate than in neighboring states and tend to buy domestic rather than smuggled marijuana, the study found.

"We're already growing our own in California, so it's hard to see how we'd impact Mexico's market all that much," agreed Valerie Corral, a Santa Cruz, Calif., pot grower whose farm north of the city provides medical marijuana to members of a cooperative she helped found.

California voters will decide next month whether to legalize and tax their own recreational use of marijuana. The measure is closely watched in Mexico, where more than 28,000 people have died in drug violence since Mexico's President Felipe Calderon launched his crackdown on organized crime in late 2006. Both Calderon and President Barack Obama agree the vast profits cartels collect in the U.S. — estimated between $18 billion and $35 billion a year — fuel drug wars south of the border.

[flying ^]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11520220

I think this quote by a cement worker pretty much sums it up
"I'm prepared to extend the strike. I started working at 17 and now I'm 50, and I'm starting to get really fed up with it."

So they arent even allowed to work more that 40 hrs a week, and they're complaining about work? Good lord! have they no work ethic or is it just that hard to keep a job there with all the A-rabs and algerians moving in?

[Ithekro]

California legalizing a drug that is still illegal in the United States does nothing effectively. We did this once already and it was overturned at the Federal level because marijuana is illegal by Federal Law, which is higher than State Law. It just means that State and local police will probably not be going after them....but the Feds will be.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Ooh, I bet the Norwegians are trembling in fear.

I really wish PRC wouldn't act like a third grader throwing tantrums.
I mean, that's to be expected from rogue nations like North Korea. Not a Super power.

Originally Posted by flying ^

Legalizing pot won't hinder Mexican cartels

Mexico's drug traffickers are likely to lose customers in America's largest pot consuming state if California legalizes marijuana, but they won't lose much money overall because California's residents already prefer to grow their own, according to a study released Tuesday.

The simple answer.
WE NEED TO GROW POT EVERYWHERE.