2013-05-24, 22:23 | Link #4261 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Is not misunderstanding. Ok, I will admit I am not a fan of VN but I can find good stuff here. My point is that, at times, the things we break in to in the middle of the action bits are pointless and boring. Character development and foreshadowing is good, but there is ways to let that out. Really is odd to go from a serious life or death situation of action and tension just to cut to “Who will make dinner?” and have a comic relief scene over an ancient king being angry at her bad food. Keep the tone or balance a little better the elements. FSN doesn’t always get it right.
I know with Saber, but she was British and she says the food wasn’t good… is not even a hard connection to make. Is like the Black Ranger being black and the Yellow Ranger being Asian, it just comes on its own.
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2013-05-24, 23:57 | Link #4262 | ||
The Unpronounceable
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clock Tower
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2013-05-25, 00:39 | Link #4263 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Yeah you are right, still doesn’t make the other scenes any less boring. Still a joke, I don’t care what Saber likes to eat. In fact we never saw her eating anything in Zero and I didn’t miss it.
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2013-05-25, 01:07 | Link #4264 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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I repeat, these daily life scenes are there for character development, plus foreshadowing and worldbuilding.
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2013-05-25, 11:17 | Link #4266 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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That is a possibility, still not the point I wanted to make. Overall is just the impression those scenes make on me, despite their function or lack of it, again is really poor. Add there just to bore others, lacks a consistent feeling that could help FSN to be better. Not that is bad, just that after thinking about it isn’t that great as I think the first time around.
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2013-05-25, 12:05 | Link #4267 | |
The Unpronounceable
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clock Tower
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2013-05-25, 12:39 | Link #4268 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Semantics, there are people who don’t even like this thing for that matter. There is really no point on going in that direction because in the end nothing is true and everything is permitted.
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2013-05-25, 13:12 | Link #4269 | |
The Unpronounceable
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clock Tower
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Let me just cut this short: Anytime you state your opinions, please add a notification about it. Ex: For me, in my opinions, etc... Don't just go around spouting your opinions as facts. |
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2013-05-25, 13:55 | Link #4270 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Sure.
Anyway, back to the original topic. We already saw how this works with the routes. When each route works on its own with their own problems, as a whole they look even worse. Elements from other routes need to be translated so the others make sense, which just seem to enforce the fact they should not separate the plot elements like this. Even characters that don’t appear in one route just to show up in the other, like Zouken or even Avenger (Or whatever his name is).
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2013-05-25, 14:08 | Link #4271 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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You're supposed to play them in order. By doing the Fate route, the UBW route makes sense. By doing both Fate and UBW routes, Heaven's Feel makes sense. If you did not do them in order, it's your own fault, since the game forces you to do so unless you downloaded a completed file.
While some scenes in latter routes enhance earlier routes, they are by no means necessary to understand what happens. It appears that you just want everything to happen at once. If that's the case, stick to anime, as visual novels are clearly not for you. But be prepared for hackneyed story-telling, as you can see from the Fate/Stay Night anime and manga what happens when you try to force all the routes together. The stories are very different and cannot work together. It's already been explained to you why characters appear in one route and not another, or play more significant roles in one route over another. There's no point in continuing the discussion when you blatantly ignore these points and only continue to complain about it. |
2013-05-25, 14:22 | Link #4272 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Because the explanation are just a way to give away what, in the end, I can’t really put myself behind as story telling detail. I never say it can’t be explain, I am saying isn’t kind of stellar. And there is no point to say it can’t work in a more open story when we already have an example where a Fate series does give more room to all Master/Servant teams. FSN doesn’t do it for any reasons they might had and they create something good, just not flawed.
The discussion is over if this can affect the routes quality and I think it does. Because you can tell me yeah, Zouken wanted to play bingo during the other routes or he take vacations on Hawaii or was waiting for things to happen on its own, etc. that isn’t the point. He didn’t appear and might as well seem he was just not in there at all. You can’t really go away with the “little hints” if in the end the character was so irrelevant to the previous routes we can pretend he was dead on those. Point being, some characters are kind of waste in other routes. I think it does matter and I can’t really just take it, you can. So yes, we agree to disagree there.
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2013-05-25, 14:50 | Link #4274 | ||
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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If you really cannot understand this, then visual novels just aren't for you.
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2013-05-25, 15:59 | Link #4275 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
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What originally had me wondering if Zouken was dead or not was that possible euphemism and his absence, but like everyone has said he doesn't get a chance to utilize Sakura in the other routes. Which makes a lot of sense, but the more I think about it and look back at the first 3 days of each respective route I end up asking myself why?
The only notable difference is that Shirou walks Sakura home. The scene that Zouken says he has all the pieces and just needs to make a small opening to take advantage of Sakura isn't the result of some major deviation. He mentions Rin winning and that creates the opening in Sakura he needs. If that's all it takes why didn't he do it in Fate? all the pieces are essentially the same. The explanation for that is like what people say, Zouken realizes the connection between Shirou and Sakura. Even then what is so important that happens during those 3 days for him to decide that? He already knows about shirou because shirou mentions going to the Matou house a few times to play with Shinji before they were estranged. Sakura joins the archery club because of Shirou. Shirou punches out Shinji after he finds out he hit Sakura, that's a huge sign saying hey I like this girl. Only differences in those 3 days are Shirou walks home Sakura as opposed to sakura and Fuji-nee stopping him when he tries to in fate, and they make lunch together. Tbh they've probably made lunch together a bunch of times before during the whole cooperative year thing. I'm not saying im right or claiming stuff as facts but when I think about it this way it just makes me think why didn't Zouken show up? The pieces are there in all routes and nothing major changes in those first days. With that said, I encourage anyone to pick apart my post and explain where I may be wrong I'm just generally interested in a concrete reason why he doesn't do what he does in HF, its still a mystery to me. |
2013-05-26, 10:45 | Link #4276 |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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He originally made her to be a grail that malfunctions because he is just copying the Einzberns' methods and forcing her body to gain resiliency through suffocation, poisoning, and torture methods, also trying to break her mind, so she would succumb to being the grail and be the vessel, it came to the point that nothing he could do externally fazed her and she wasn't fooled by him. In the flashback scene in HF, Bailing Hand, on day 9 right after Shirou decides to protect Sakura and goes back to the Church, it showed how the AM connection came out.
It connected what happened after Sakura pales when seeing the mark of the chosen on Shirou and why she gave Rider to Shinji, besides the fact she didn't want to fight. However, this time Zouken has met with Shirou and now has a better idea of how to use both Rin and Shirou against Sakura. It was her fear after seeing his mark of the chosen and her distrust that Rin would not kill him that spawned that tiny spark of genuine malice that caused the contract to accidentally happen, the gate to open, and for the taint to start flowing into Sakura, making her a malfunctioning Lesser Grail. Basically, Zouken's trolling got a response he desired, by getting at the chinks in her armor. The conversation had him luring her in by saying she didn't have to kill all the masters she defeated, and could keep a couple as pets if she wanted, Sakura sees his game and refuses, saying she would give Rider to Shinji anyway, since she has no idea what he'll do if she agrees to fight. And then things would go like they would in the other routes by her making the book and that being the end of it, except for then Zouken trolls her as I said above and the gears move into motion that make her a Lesser Grail. That is pretty much the difference between HF and the other routes, Zouken uses as much leverage as he can and gets lucky as the stars align. |
2013-05-26, 19:52 | Link #4277 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
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He should already know how to use Shirou without him going to the house right? Kotomine says the crest worm in Sakura is normally used for reconnaissance, he can see what shes doing and in that first day Sakura sorta flirts with Shirou and Shirou says itll be a problem if Fuji-nee hears her talk like that. Zouken SHOULD know this I think. Also in the Fate route Sakura also sees the mark on Shirou's hand, its bleeding rather than just a bruise and her face pales when she sees that as well. So whats confusing me is that the same events happen albeit a bit differently but should have the same result, if that's the case Zouken had no reason not to act in Fate as well. So I guess it comes down to it in Fate that tiny spark does open for whatever reason since they most definitely had the same conversation. While in HF it does, so its sort of like a what IF scenario then? Is that right? idk its just silly to me that such a tiiiiiny difference means he doesn't act in Fate, he even said himself, he has all the pieces he needs, why would he give up on Sakura after a single conversation. He been waiting 500 years. I guess its just my opinion and im being stubborn lol.
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2013-05-26, 20:21 | Link #4278 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
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2013-05-26, 20:42 | Link #4279 | |
Often Disappointed
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portugal
Age: 37
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Just sounds to me that your inability to read between the lines (or perhaps inexperience when it comes to the VN genre) is having a negative impact on your enjoyment of the game... ...either that, or you've decided to play it after watching Fate/Zero and expected the same kind of storytelling. |
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2013-05-26, 21:33 | Link #4280 | |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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fate/stay night, visual novel |
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