[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 477 Discussion

[Randrak42]

Hmm, just to prove how good and epic this chapter was, look at the latest chapter threads for Naruto and One Piece, then return here. Notice how this one just jumped to page 2 while the rest are around page 4 and 5 xD

Oh Kubo, you and your mediocre and boring arc.

[Prinnydood]

This was a GOOD chapter! Usually I have some complaints here and there, but I actually really liked it . Wasn't expecting Ichigo's fight to be some crazy epic fight to begin with so that didn't really change my opinion much at all.

Definitely one of the better chapters in this arc.

[KaneDragon]

Tsukishima appearing out of nowhere like that amused me greatly. Who ordered that?

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

Way I see it is shikai is slightly more evenly matched but once they go bankai is a different story.
I don't think you should look at it as if "there shikai is the evenly matched then so should there bankai be".

I can see where you're coming from if we were to focus strictly on the varying degress of usefulness each shinigami's bankai possesses. However, since its Ichigo we're dealing with, I can't quite see it that way. Ichigo's bankai doesn't seem to do anything beyond serving as your typical cliche shounen speed and strength boost. To top it off, chapter 470 implies that Ginjou's bankai could inherit similar traits to Ichigo's. Plus drawing from hollow powers is supposed to augment speed and strength even further.

So once again I ask, if Ichigo and Ginjou were evenly matched in strength and speed prior to using bankai, why should Bankai give Ichigo such a major advantage given these specific circumstances?

[Jouten]

Originally Posted by sayde

I can see where you're coming from if we were to focus strictly on the varying degress of usefulness each shinigami's bankai possesses. However, since its Ichigo we're dealing with, I can't quite see it that way. Ichigo's bankai doesn't seem to do anything beyond serving as your typical cliche shounen speed and strength boost. To top it off, chapter 470 implies that Ginjou's bankai would be the same as Ichigo's. Plus drawing from hollow powers is supposed to augment speed and strength even further.

So once again I ask, if Ichigo and Ginjou were evenly matched in strength and speed prior to using bankai, why should Bankai give Ichigo such a major advantage given these specific circumstances?

Maybe it's because Ichigo usually doesn't fight in his Shikai? As soon as the opponent is strong enough he switches to Bankai immediately. I think Ichigo doesn't really care for his Shikai strength anyway. Ginjou however might tend to use Shikai instead of Bankai and resort to his Bankai only in extreme situations. But I agree it's still weird that Ginjou was beaten so easily. You would assume him drawing Hollow powers would at least bring him to Arrancar or Vizard Level, which Ichigo wouldn't be able to defeat without his Hollow mask.

[Kayin]

Maybe, but his powers right now are clearly stronger then they were before he lost them. You could also say that Ginjou's powers are being restricted by this combat pass - which he does still carry. Either that or Ichigo's are completely unrestricted right now on top of all the bonus power coming from every captain/vice captain in SS.

The most logical answer is that Ichigo is the story's hero, will always win in the end, and letting his new state of soul reaper bad ass be trumped by a fill-in villain would upset the fans.

[Marcus H.]

I think Ginjo's defeat while in Hollow-Bankai mode proves one thing: You don't defeat the original with a fake one. Ginjou was only able to transform because he sucked away Ichigo fullbring powers. Without it, the fight would have ended in the mansion.

I'm quite amazed at how Tsukishima survived that attack from Byakuya.
This just proves that Tsukishima is indeed heartless.

[Jouten]

Originally Posted by Kayin

Maybe, but his powers right now are clearly stronger then they were before he lost them. You could also say that Ginjou's powers are being restricted by this combat pass - which he does still carry. Either that or Ichigo's are completely unrestricted right now on top of all the bonus power coming from every captain/vice captain in SS.

The most logical answer is that Ichigo is the story's hero, will always win in the end, and letting his new state of soul reaper bad ass be trumped by a fill-in villain would upset the fans.

But he could have made Ginjou at least put up a fight against Ichigo. I mean why would he show that Ichigo is completely superior to Ginjou in his Bankai but show him struggle in Shikai? And doesn't the combat pass only restrict their reiatsu when in human form?

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kayin

Maybe, but his powers right now are clearly stronger then they were before he lost them. You could also say that Ginjou's powers are being restricted by this combat pass - which he does still carry. Either that or Ichigo's are completely unrestricted right now on top of all the bonus power coming from every captain/vice captain in SS.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I think Ginjo's defeat while in Hollow-Bankai mode proves one thing: You don't defeat the original with a fake one. Ginjou was only able to transform because he sucked away Ichigo fullbring powers. Without it, the fight would have ended in the mansion.

These are both valid points that do well to explain the end outcome. They just don't do much to explain the main issue I'm having trouble comprehending.

Originally Posted by Jouten

I mean why would he show that Ichigo is completely superior to Ginjou in his Bankai but show him struggle in Shikai?

^^This.
That's precisely what perplexes me about the situation. I just don't see the point. And while I have to acknowledge Kayin's final point in his previous post I feel that Kubo could've allowed Ichigo's "new state of soul reaper bad ass" to achieve the same intended effect (or better) if he just allowed Ichigo to already be in control of the battle prior to going bankai. Because at least then, there'd be little to no confusion. The scenario would allow for more consistency and could even serve to further support the explanations I quoted above.

[Marcus H.]

I dunno, this new Bankai seems more powerful than his Vizard form (one reason is control of his powers, and another is his firm resolve throughout the fight).

Can't blame you sayde for being confused, though. This is Kubo we're talking about.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I dunno, this new Bankai seems more powerful than his Vizard form (one reason is control of his powers, and another is his firm resolve throughout the fight).

Yet another point you won't see me argue over.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Can't blame you sayde for being confused, though. This is Kubo we're talking about.

*sighs* You're right. I gotta try harder to remember to stop thinking about some of this stuff too deeply. Because while I know there's elements to Kubo's plot in which he'd like readers to really think about, this probably wasn't intended to be one of them in the least bit.

[Alchemist007]

Well I was right in saying this is a goddamn one-hit KO type blade. Sliced through that sword and his guts.

[Lendial]

I keep reading in hopes it will eventually turn up only to be disappointed week after week. Its not so much the story or even direction, its just so much space is used to for...space.

[Dnous]

Or it could just be simply that with the fullbring powers from Ichigo, Ginjou was able to hold his own against Ichigo. But the fullbring powers don't grow, so when Ginjou went Bankai the power boost from Ichigo's fullbring wasn't nearly enough to fill the gap between bankais. And so he was easily defeated.

[kk2extreme]

Ginjo reminds me of Sensui greatly...

though this is state long ago, but even Ginjo's end is similar in some ways...

[kiak666]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

Ginjo reminds me of Sensui greatly...

though this is state long ago, but even Ginjo's end is similar in some ways...

Who knows, next thing we know we will have Tsukishima carrying Ginjo's dead (still to be seen) body away and never to be seen again....

Anyway, is it me or do I get the feeling that Tsukishima and Ginjo's relationship will somehow turn into a yaoi bait?

[Kafriel]

Anyway, is it me or do I get the feeling that Tsukishima and Ginjo's relationship will somehow turn into a yaoi bait?

I'd say it's a given at this point in time

[sayde]

I just read there wasn't going to be another chapter this upcoming week. Can anyone here confirm this (before I decide to update the OP with this information)?

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by sayde

I just read there wasn't going to be another chapter this upcoming week. Can anyone here confirm this (before I decide to update the OP with this information)?

this week is a double issue so there's no weekly shonen jump next week. the magazine always takes a break during christmas week.

[sayde]

Okay. Thanks a lot for the info ronin myael.