US Elections 2016 Part II: The Debates & General Election

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

But Democracy, Free Speech and the Queen are all dam important.

Here, it's all about the Republic, "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité", which is why some French on the right are worried about the higher-ups in national education department trying to phase out people like Jeanne d'Arc, ie, in history classes while we have stuff like "the Mali Empire" (this have made a controversy back in 2011), or when a portion of the muslim population voicing their opinion about how they value Sharia law more than the laws of the Republic. It's no wonder François Fillon have managed to gather the French Catholics behind him because those were the ones who lost the most from 1905. Because those are the population who built a great part of France as the world know, and sacrificed their political pull for the sake of civil peace (struggle between Catholics and Protestants left a wound in french history).

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Grifis

Nobody knows the content of the findings and if there are "findings" I'm pretty sure the CIA cooked it up themselves. This is the narrative they've prepared from the beginning. As for the public, they don't need to know. The public just need to be told that it was evil Russia/Putin all along. The case of innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply here. It was like that since M-17 (or rather since I started to pay attention.)

You'd think if they were going to "cook up" things, they'd have done it during the election rather than after. Just look at the FBI.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

This is one really bad example in this case, as USA is a MIX if multiple nationalities that over time developed their own culture and nation ( and even with that you can pretty much see dominance of English culture in US above all other nations ). Beside US has different mentality, in Europe nationality is the biggest question for individual while in US it's race. Pretty much everyone can become an american as they are artificially created nation from a mix of different nations.

So an African American is not American? An Italian American is not American? An Asian American is not American? All of them together make America. American is not a country of isolated culture cells.

Also you're making a difference between America and Europe for whatever damn reason since Europe has different cultures within the same country just as well. Ever seen a black German? A Swiss with parents from Asia? A Russian with an American uncle? Are they all not native to the country where they're living? It doesn't even begin to make sense.

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

But I guess in these modern times just asking someone is he from another country is considered racism. Even in most cases people use this word without understanding it's meaning ( like here, German is not a race - it is an nationality. German people are part of Caucasian race same like Slavs, French, English, Scandinavian and others... ).

We have gone over this already. Please note that race is a cultural concept, not a genetic one. Nationality, religion, gender, skin colour, and more are all perfectly viable to be a 'race'. It's perfectly possible to be racist to Islamists as it is to Mexicans or women.

[Haak]

You'd have to be a Putin cock-sucker to think it's ridiculous that Russia wouldn't try to influence the elections if they could. It's not like they and their propaganda news network have made any secret on who they support. If they really were behind the Wikipedia leaks then it would make all the sense in the world. Of course that still doesn't mean Russia actually did it. Just because it's plausible doesn't make it true. But the fact that Russia is desperately trying to make out the thought of foreign interference absurd is hilariously ironic.

[Grifis]

I think it's ridiculous to make accusations without evidence. I remember one time this French politician claimed that he and Putin discussed about splitting Ukraine on certain event. Luckily he mentioned a certain event so Russia was able to verify Putin was never there to begin with. The funny thing is when the guy made the accusations the news was blasted all over the internet on big and small sites. But I only saw one article about him lying through his teeth. And it was not from RT.

So the strategy is making accusations without evidence to ruin someone's reputation and the accuser doesn't need to prove that it's true and makes sure that it can't be proven false neither. If in the case where it can proven false, limit that piece of news as little as possible or be quiet about it. I think it's a good thing Russia has their own POV presented in their own news outlet. Call it propaganda or whatever you will but they have the right to defend their position. It's a terrible thing to be accused and framed without evidence and not being able to defend yourself with your side of the story.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You'd think if they were going to "cook up" things, they'd have done it during the election rather than after. Just look at the FBI.

They did blame Russia during the election and tried to tie Trump to Russia as much as possible. But they weren't desperate to the point where they had to produce something. There was a high level of confidence that Hillary would win. I even thought Hillary would win.

[Key Board]

WASHINGTON — House Republicans, responding to criticism that repealing the Affordable Care Act would leave millions without health insurance, said on Thursday that their goal in replacing President Obama’s health law was to guarantee “universal access” to health care and coverage, not necessarily to ensure that everyone actually has insurance.

http://nyti.ms/2hMbTuT

I had to double check to make sure that I read that correctly...

[The Green One]

Sure anyone can have health care. They never said it can be afforded......hey it's not their fault if it can't be afforded, by god they made sure it was there!

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Grifis

I think it's ridiculous to make accusations without evidence. I remember one time this French politician claimed that he and Putin discussed about splitting Ukraine on certain event.

You've got a link toward that?

They did blame Russia during the election and tried to tie Trump to Russia as much as possible. But they weren't desperate to the point where they had to produce something. There was a high level of confidence that Hillary would win. I even thought Hillary would win.

Who's "they"? Because I don't remember the CIA doing that.

And while presumption of innocence is fine, if little practiced (look at how many people presumed Hillary to be guilty of God knows what), it doesn't mean silencing all suspicions.

[ChuckE]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Frankly it is pretty obvious you are entirely insecure about your own identity and is overcompensating.

Identity? No. But I have respect to every country and what I believe it should not be adjusted to fit for everybody. Qouting a person before - bath in your culture in private but do not make everybody share your beliefs.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

So an African American is not American? An Italian American is not American? An Asian American is not American? All of them together make America. American is not a country of isolated culture cells.

Live in USA, has ID, knows English - yes I think American. In other cases - I disagree.

Originally Posted by The Green One

Sure anyone can have health care. They never said it can be afforded......hey it's not their fault if it can't be afforded, by god they made sure it was there!

Was medical care a civil right? I think it might go the same as education - not everybody can afford (though it was always bugging me why it is so expensive in USA). It is the same as with children - for what purpose (aside benefits) people should have a lot of children which they cannot afford (I found that tendency among poor usually).

Regarding hacking...
If CIA had clear evidence they would have used it. Democrates for now think they are just waiting for inauguration and then provide the evidence in order to impeach Trump.

Or like that Obama's quote that they did not want to use "rigged" card because Trump was calling the election rigged and people possibly might assume that democrates rigged it (sounds hilarious to be honest).

Assange told that emails did not come from Russians, now liberals tell that Assange is Russian dog lol (though they also think that republicans won because democrates did not have enough media coverage )

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

CIA lying. Nothing to see here.

Except all 17 of the U.S. Intelligence agencies (FBI, CIA, ODNI etc) and not just CIA are also saying it. The only thing they don't agree on is if the was hacks were aimed at helping Trump. But there is clearly something there if such a uniamous census came about.

Originally Posted by Haak

You'd have to be a Putin cock-sucker to think it's ridiculous that Russia wouldn't try to influence the elections if they could. It's not like they and their propaganda news network have made any secret on who they support. If they really were behind the Wikipedia leaks then it would make all the sense in the world. Of course that still doesn't mean Russia actually did it. Just because it's plausible doesn't make it true. But the fact that Russia is desperately trying to make out the thought of foreign interference absurd is hilariously ironic.

It's also pretty inline with their stratagy right now:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foun...of_Geopolitics

[Grifis]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You've got a link toward that?

Nope. It was a while ago while Ukraine was a hot topic and I usually don't save links. There were so many ridiculous stuff I saw that I can't take the MSM seriously anymore. While I do go to RT on youtube once in a while to check on some vids for a different perspective, but most of the time I look at headlines from the MSM on Russia/Putin to keep tabs on how ridiculous they can get (because the audience must be idiots) and they never disappoint.

Who's "they"? Because I don't remember the CIA doing that.

And while presumption of innocence is fine, if little practiced (look at how many people presumed Hillary to be guilty of God knows what), it doesn't mean silencing all suspicions.

Could be DNC or CIA I don't remember exactly but I remember headlines from Guardian. I go there for the headlines and the comments because I already know what kind of narrative they want to present in their stories. And it's not like I followed that ugly fight between the two parties closely. (They're cut from the same cloth anyways. Bloody hell, I just wanted it to end.)

The US government doesn't need to show proof or evidence when it comes to Putin/Russia. Accuse, make final verdict then produce evidence later if need be. I remember clearly the day right after M-17 was shot down and no one knew what happened or what was at the site and no investigation was launched but Obama and his buddy Merkel already made the verdict that it was Russia/Putin and that was the perfect excuse for the sanctions. It was like the US government wrote the script and acted it out all on their own. And so long after the conclusion remained as vague as possible to protect the very verdict made from the big wigs at the beginning.

[Dauerlutscher]

It's funny that Trump could basically buttfuck all his fans and they would make esxcuse for him and still believe in him.


This Trump voter didn't think Trump was serious about repealing her health insurance

And this stupid woman chose to vote against the life of her husband...

Humans doing stupid things that will hurt them and millions of other people. I'm nor really sure if I can feel symphaty for her when she is the reason for her own misfortune.

[MCAL]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/us...e-iphone-share
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._all_dt_tw_top

More proof that the Republican Party is becoming a party of fascists....

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Grifis

Nope. It was a while ago while Ukraine was a hot topic and I usually don't save links. There were so many ridiculous stuff I saw that I can't take the MSM seriously anymore. While I do go to RT on youtube once in a while to check on some vids for a different perspective, but most of the time I look at headlines from the MSM on Russia/Putin to keep tabs on how ridiculous they can get (because the audience must be idiots) and they never disappoint.



Could be DNC or CIA I don't remember exactly but I remember headlines from Guardian. I go there for the headlines and the comments because I already know what kind of narrative they want to present in their stories. And it's not like I followed that ugly fight between the two parties closely. (They're cut from the same cloth anyways. Bloody hell, I just wanted it to end.)

So in both cases, all you've got are vague memories that things maybe happened in a way that resembled your claims. Got it.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by MCAL

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/us...e-iphone-share
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._all_dt_tw_top

More proof that the Republican Party is becoming a party of fascists....

One of those days, they will rue the day they made those political moves when people will come at them in retaliation with bricks (literally).

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

One of those days, they will rue the day they made those political moves when people will come at them in retaliation with bricks (literally).

xD

This made me laugh, people actually getting off their computers and actually doing something?

I am afraid that days of 1776 are long gone...

[KiraYamatoFan]

What the fuck?

Donald Trump Selects Trading Firm Founder Vincent Viola as Army Secretary

For my own knowledge, that guy was nothing but the owner of the Florida Panthers until today. So much for draining the swamp when there's another shyster on board.

[MCAL]

https://thinkprogress.org/under-poli...513#.angcbton4

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... .

http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald...ongress-232828

I believe these are how civil wars are started.

[The Green One]

In case you're curious the electors voted in Trump. It's officially official now. Have fun kids.

[KiraYamatoFan]

My position about the Electoral College has not changed since November 8. Burn that outdated system to the ground, and move into a parliamentary system where everyone (including any prospective president) has to be a MP who answers first and foremost to the people from his/her own county.