True Tears - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by tun

I think you're over analyzing the bike burning incident, Kaoru. I think she was just trying to lighten up the mood, however awkwardly she did it.

It almost seemed to me like they couldn't quite fully grasp what just happened. Her little comment about the fire, and his "and I worked so hard for that bike" - it's like they didn't even clue in that "we could have died!" Sort of typical teenager thinking, I think. It wasn't until Shinichirou hugged Hiromi that she started crying a bit and probably realizing "I guess that was pretty serious; he was really worried about me". Basically, that whole scene felt to me as if Hiromi thought she was dreaming. It was a very odd feeling, but obviously I think it was intended to have that effect.

[bbduece]

Shinichiro has unofficially broke up with two girls. (my interpretation)

Hiromi is in the lead at the moment.

So-So episode

Now we need to know specifically why the mom ape-sh!t sometimes.

[kenshinvn]

This episode made me change my thinking for some characters. For Shin, this was the first time I could see that he could act COOL. I know his hug for Hiromi may hurt someone but this action was thousand times meaningful compared to words. I was not sure if this action could be called “it’s better late than never” to Shin x Hiromi fan, hihi. I’m not a supporter to any couple in this series but if I have to choose, my choice is Shin x Noe. At start, I really did not like Noe because her “cute” way didn’t move me at all. Some of you pointed out that she might have mental problem, however, I could only feel annoyed sometimes by her action to Shin (spreading red seed everywhere). But but but, Noe did move me a lot in this episode. Her insistent touch to Shin’s bandage explained how her heart was the same, or why Shin couldn’t bare the pain as he did for Hiromi to her. Since it nearly reaches the end of this show, I’m afraid that time for Shin and Noe will be shorten. From Noe’s deep thinking and emotion, I really want to know more about her.

I could not enjoy the circumstance of Shin’s mom and Hiromi since I felt it flew too fast to conclusion. I don’t know why but myself told me that sudden change of Shin’s mom behaviour was some kind of unnaturally.

[TinyRedLeaf]

^ I think Nakagami-okāsan belatedly realised how badly she has behaved, hence her clumsy attempts to make up with Hiromi. When there is so much bad blood between them, the initial attempts are bound to feel awkward. As for why she has been spiteful, I guess we will soon know. It doesn't make her "evil". It only means that Nakagami-okāsan is flawed, just like the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Sorrow_K

[Hiromi] is a very cold person, but there's sufficient reason in her background for her to be that way. I have no problems with a series analyzing a character like that, since she would be fascinating, but like I've said, I've felt this series hasn't gone nearly far enough with its analysis of her. But to ask us to genuinely sympathize with her? Well, that's a big ask, in my opinion, and much of that comes done to the way she treats people around her. She's constantly negative, she's manipulative, she's a compulsive liar, she's inconsistent and very aloof. Hence why I think she's broken.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Personally, I read Hiromi differently. She's in the extremely unfortunate situation that she has to grow up in a dysfunctional foster family, devoid of any love towards her. She can't even try to get closer with Shinichiro without triggering the ire of her stepmother (remember the earlier episodes). But she isn't really "cold", she has a temper under her teflon coating. She WANTS to be loved, but she doesn't think she can, so she remains evasive, except for her friend from the basketball team. This causes her to develop this bitter, almost embittered undertone when dealing with people.

Nice to see some constructive analyses for a change.

I agree with Mentar. I feel sympathy for Hiromi, because of her unusually difficult situation. However, I disagree that she felt romantic attraction towards Jun. I read Hiromi's "admission" to Tomoyo as a red herring. Tomoyo has been bugging her about Shinichiro, which if you think about it, is like rubbing salt into her wounds — after all, she was labouring under the belief that Shinichiro was her brother, and therefore out-of-bounds.

If Hiromi did indeed have romantic feelings for Jun, I find it strange that she used her second question to ask why Jun was dating her. Shouldn't she be happy to be with him instead? To me, it's obvious that her mind was somewhere else.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

The cold rain pours
I want to forget. I have to forget. (Hiromi thought that her feelings for Shin isn't possible because he might be her brother)
While wavering
my heart sinks. It's for you. (this is Hiromi's feelings for Shin)
I'm tellin' a lie (this is Hiromi's feelings for Jun, it's a lie)

Sounds convincing enough to me, with the one very minor sidecomment that I don't think she's talking about her feelings for Jun (I don't recall her reciting this claim ever after the Tomoyo talk), but rather her refusal to admit her feelings for Shin.

Basically, I believe Hiromi was trying to cover up her feelings for Shin by saying that she likes Jun. The other reason (as Kaoru Chujo already stated) would be to avoid more problems for the family. Of course Hiromi can't hold the feelings she had for Shin forever, clear indication of this is her having a hostile attittude towards Noe when she found out Shin is going out with Noe

But this alone does not prove that she was lying about having an interest in Jun to begin with. Which is why I argued against the "Hiromi is a compulsive liar" statement of earlier. It's a fact that she had details about Jun very ready (beginning of ep4), and I see no reason to doubt that she was interested. This is not enough in my eyes to condemn her as a "liar".

On the other hand, I certainly do agree that part of this admission (which was extremely unusual for her, usually Hiromi plays her cards very close to her chest) was to get Tomoyo off her back about Shin.

Hiromi having feelings for Jun? I highly doubt it for 3 reasons:

1. I never saw Hiromi blush when she is going out with Jun.
2. She forced Jun to ride his bike in the snow, even when Jun said that it's dangerous and he could get killed. Putting someone in danger can't really be considered affection.
3. Didn't check/worry whether Jun was alright after their bike crashed into the pile of snow.

In my opinion, it's a timing issue. She WAS interested in him in the beginning, but when the whole "dating" stuff came up, it was clear to her that there was something fishy going on, and she was determined to find out what it was by tagging along. At that time, she certainly wasn't "in love" with Jun or anything. I rather get the feeling that she's angry for being used like this.

Hiromi: "So if one side breaks up the other would also have to break up right?"
Jun: "That would be a problem, I'd do anything you want so..."

Just to make this clear: When this exchange took place, she already knew what had happened, and that Jun's "dating" her wasn't genuine to begin with. Also, her feelings towards Shin were already forced out into the open. And there, her immediate genuine care for Shin strongly superseded any initial (and subsequently disappointed) interest in Jun.

I do want to point out one more thing though, for those who consider her to be so selfish-manipulating. She would have had a very simple way to drop a bomb: By simply telling Jun to take a hike, that she was not willing to participate in such a fake charade any longer. Which would be a perfectly appropriate reaction in my book, PARTICULARLY if she never had any interest in Jun to begin with, like some people argue.

So why didn't she?

In my opinion, she didn't out of consideration for Shin (if THAT'S manipulative, then it sure isn't in her favor). And also, even though the setup was clearly not genuine, she might still give the Jun linkup a chance. Keep in mind: When she agreed, she was still convinced that Shin was off-limits as her brother. NOW this has changed. The next episode will decide where this goes IMHO, and I expect Hiromi to become increasingly resistant towards Jun.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

That's a fairly convincing set of reasons -- although this show can also fool you sometimes, and I still don't fully grasp her attitude watching the bike burn. But I have to say that she did respond at least physically when Jun touched her hair and lips when he brought her home after their first date.

Agreed, I think an unexpected plot twist can still happen like in Myself; Yourself.
There's still 4 episodes left, and that's still a long time for a 13 episode anime.

About the burnt bike, either Hiromi is trying to lighten up the mood (as tun have already mentioned) or Hiromi is just showing indifference to Jun's problem of losing his bike. She didn't even apologize or offer to help paying the loan for the bike. ._.

Hiromi: "Looks like your bike is all burnt up."
Jun: "Yeah what should I do? There was still a lot left on the loan."
Hiromi: "It's kind of... beautiful."

Originally Posted by bbduece

Shinichiro has unofficially broke up with two girls. (my interpretation)

Poor Noe...but she may still have a chance.

Originally Posted by Mentar

In my opinion, it's a timing issue. She WAS interested in him in the beginning, but when the whole "dating" stuff came up, it was clear to her that there was something fishy going on, and she was determined to find out what it was by tagging along. At that time, she certainly wasn't "in love" with Jun or anything. I rather get the feeling that she's angry for being used like this.

The next episodes will probably reveal whether Hiromi ever had any real romantic interest for Jun or not.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

^ I think Nakagami-okāsan belatedly realised how badly she has behaved, hence her clumsy attempts to make up with Hiromi. When there is so much bad blood between them, the initial attempts are bound to feel awkward. As for why she has been spiteful, I guess we will soon know. It doesn't make her "evil". It only means that Nakagami-okāsan is flawed, just like the rest of us.

I agree with Mentar. I feel sympathy for Hiromi, because of her unusually difficult situation. However, I disagree that she felt romantic attraction towards Jun. I read Hiromi's "admission" to Tomoyo as a red herring. Tomoyo has been bugging her about Shinichiro, which if you think about it, is like rubbing salt into her wounds — after all, she was labouring under the belief that Shinichiro was her brother, and therefore out-of-bounds.

If Hiromi did indeed have romantic feelings for Jun, I find it strange that she used her second question to ask why Jun was dating her. Shouldn't she be happy to be with him instead? To me, it's obvious that her mind was somewhere else.

Thats exactly what i felt it was like a punch in the face. Hiromi's awkwardness at Shins mom attempts to reconcile was not something she expected especially after the trouble Hiromi thought she caused. The key to their relationship is time, time heals all wounds if given ample time to do so, they are not going to act like mother and daughter over night but i feel Hiromi wants a motherly figure in her life. I think the reason she stayed in Hiromis room was to find some common ground most of time it only takes one thing to get it started. In their case it was the CD on Hiromis desk its a small start but a start at that. Look at Hiromi's expression when Shin comes home she was smiling and i felt honestly happy. I dont consider Shins mom evil a bitch yes but not evil. She was trapped in the past and did find a reasonable outlet for frustrations and took them out on Hiromi at least she has realized it and is trying to make amends.

The situation with Hiromi and Jun is quite difficult. Hiromi is such an enigma about her feeling unless it concerns Shin and even that is questionable sometimes. I feel Hiromi felt Jun was attractive did she have any inert feelings towards him before their so called "Dating" im highly doubting it. Do i think she was lying i wouldnt call it a lie i would call it protection and denial. The episode when he touched her hair and after that i felt Hiromi was going along with everything because it was a distraction from her feelings for Shin and Jun was more than willing to do what she wanted, i think she is or was attracted to him and decided to use him since it was obvious that he was using her and Shin as well. Hence her not seeming to concerned over the wrecked bike. Imo Hiromi was also trying not to cause anymore complications at home and this was one way to do it. When she was with Jun except for that 1 scene when he touched her hair and lips she was lifeless, she hardly ever smiled iv never really seen her laugh with him. It was like she forcing her self to forget everything while with him but not actually enjoying his presence. With things starting to look up in the household Im expecting Hiromi to become quite resistant to Jun. I think she wants a fresh start and the first part was Shins mom now the second not going along with this facade that Jun and Shin have created. I sticking to the fact that her interest in Jun before were more about looks and after it was about escaping her tournament of feelings for Shin and her home life. But i dont think she will go with any longer and that will cut into Juns plans to protect his sister. I would like to see Hiromi be more forceful and voice what she wants or does not want. If something happens between her and Jin later fine but as long as there is no deceit involved. I still dont think Jun has any real interest in Hiromi he has not really shown any its like everything he has done has done has been according to a plan and he knows he DEFINELTY knows Shin and Hiromi has some type of feelings for one another as he was the one that told her Noe and Shin were dating and then watched her reaction, he is not stupid but i still think he will try to hold on to Hiromi with a possible intervention from Shin or Hiromi will handle it on her own. In the end we all use things to distract our selves from our problems Hiromi is no different she is only human and to me it seems like this dating was just that a way to avoid, forget or displace her feelings for Shin. However, things are different now i think Hiromi knows exactly what shes wants but does not know how to achieve it. Just like Shin wants to fly but does not know how at the moment.


I see 2 ways for Noe to get her tears back
1. Hiromi and Shin work out Noe honestly and truly loves the big idiot and the pain of losing her first love will trigger her tears. (They have no officially broken up yet btw)

2.Shin and Hiromi dont happen and Shin realizes that he actually cares for Noe and chooses her over Hiromi, Shin figures out how he can fly and in the process Noe gets her tears back.

Either way Shin is the key at least thats what i think both have the potential to be an ending to TT. Hes got to pick 1 which one will it be.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

2.Shin and Hiromi dont happen and Shin realizes that he actually cares for Noe and chooses her over Hiromi, Shin figures out how he can fly and in the process Noe gets her tears back.

Either way Shin is the key at least thats what i think both have the potential to be an ending to TT. Hes got to pick 1 which one will it be.

IF that happened It will bring such despair to all the hiromi shippers!
A lot of happiness to all the Noe shippers!

[The Chaos]

The Ep Was Really Wonderful..^^
I Never Liked Hiromi & Shin Mother Before...But After This Ep...I Really Like Them Both.. : )
But Poor Noe ..Now What Gonna Happened To Her And Shin..
Well I'm Witting The Next Ep ..^^

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by golthin

IF that happened It will bring such despair to all the hiromi shippers!
A lot of happiness to all the Noe shippers!

Yes it would i would be sad that Hiromi didnt end up with Shin but i wouldnt be all up in arms because Noe is such a great character too. Which is why i dont mind either of them for an ending i just prefer Hiromi for my own personal reasons. I still dont think Shin could ever appreciate Noe for the unique person that she truly is.

[DanielSong39]

If it is indeed a Hiromi ending Shin will prove himself to be utterly unworthy of Noe, so it's not a total loss. Better to punt than to end up with a loser.

Quite ironic that Tomoyo and Miyokichi - in their "best friend" roles - turn out to be better people than the protagonists. Those two, along with Noe, surely tower over Shin, Hiromi, and Ai.

[DonSuke]

Hey, if we had a bunch full of perfect carefree teenagers then we wouldn't have a show here. Does the protagonist have to be a distinguish - problem solver - in order to statify you?
Then just go and pick up any other anime you can find...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by golthin

IF that happened It will bring such despair to all the hiromi shippers!
A lot of happiness to all the Noe shippers!

*facepalm* Why are you even encouraging this sort of reprehensible behaviour? You seem to enjoy instigating and prepetuating forum drama. I'm hoping it goes away... away!

[golthin]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

*facepalm* Why are you even encouraging this sort of reprehensible behaviour? You seem to enjoy instigating and prepetuating forum drama. I'm hoping it goes away... away!

Come on, I am not encouraging! there will always be the drama not matter what! I do actually get a kick out of them though, now that my girl, Aiko is out of the scene it is fun seeing the shippers for either girls struggle!

[grey_moon]

@Sinestra - Another great post.

One question on my mind is will Noe and Jun be relegated now to obstacles in the way of a Shin x Hiromi ending? I'd always thought Ai's situation to be weighed heavily against success due to the nature of her situation and Shin's personality. With Noe I'd always thought that she had a very good chance at ending up with Shin, but now I'm not too sure. Especially your point 1. If that is the case it will mean one big thing for me about this show and that is magic doesn't exist.

I'm not saying that because my ideal outcome doesn't happen, but from the PoV that Noe represents that side in the show. She goes on about flying and about her grandma has taken her tears away and all that. If she gets put into a situation that doesn't fulfil her criteria of getting her tears back, but because it is such a huge emotional shock for her. Then in a way she has "grown up", but that would really be enforcing the harshness of reality over a more fairy tale ending.

[DanielSong39]

And the irony in all of this is that Shin's relationship with Noe is based on more reality than his relationship with Hiromi.

But if Shin insists on living a fairy tale, why stop him?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I'm not saying that because my ideal outcome doesn't happen, but from the PoV that Noe represents that side in the show. She goes on about flying and about her grandma has taken her tears away and all that. If she gets put into a situation that doesn't fulfil her criteria of getting her tears back, but because it is such a huge emotional shock for her. Then in a way she has "grown up", but that would really be enforcing the harshness of reality over a more fairy tale ending.

Well, in a way, we're already getting that sense in this episode with her "Shinichirou, you can fly, you just can't fly from here" realization. She can still get her tears back, and it can fulfill the "whimsical" premise, but that doesn't mean it'll be entirely "happily ever after" either. In a sense, you could point back to Raigomarou and remember that it was only in death that he finally flew; until then, he was bound to the ground. I think that's the way things are heading here (except not literal death -- it's more the realization that "when Shinichirou flies, that means he'll fly away". In other words, it's about "letting go".).

[golthin]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

And the irony in all of this is that Shin's relationship with Noe is based on more reality than his relationship with Hiromi.

But if Shin insists on living a fairy tale, why stop him?

The heart is a weird thing! Isn't it? Common sense will be for Aiko to stay with a guy that adores her [Miyoshiki] and Shin with a sweet girl like Noe. But when it comes to the heart, common sense doesn't apply, you can force your heart to do what it doesn't want. IF you can do it, then you can settle for a passionless relationship!

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

In a sense, you could point back to Raigomarou and remember that it was only in death that he finally flew; until then, he was bound to the ground. I think that's the way things are heading here (except not literal death -- it's more the realization that "when Shinichirou flies, that means he'll fly away". In other words, it's about "letting go".).

Errrr that makes the show really dark you know

If I think back with that example in mind. Does flying = going to where her grandma is and does that mean Noe has been saying "Shin you can die!!!"

[JCMS]

I would lol if that was the case.

She's in love with Shin though so I doubt she'd want him to die.