(CR) Saki Achiga-hen: Episode of Side-A (anime)

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by Qilin

In this particular case, their reasoning was understandable.

There is a very real risk of them becoming disheartened if Kiyosumi were to somehow lose their quarter finals match. If that were to happen, Achiga wouldn't be able to play their best for the semi finals, and all the people hoping for their victory would be crushed.

Also, I guess there's pride involved as well. Having been separated for so long, suddenly approaching Nodoka might turn out a bit awkward, so they instead want to bond through mahjong, which is, come to think of it, sort of similar to Saki's goal of playing against Teru...

True... I mean look at the last episode of Saki(Main storyline). If you look carefully at the ending... You should notice something there./

But... A question: They will still be able to meet up at the finals right?(Assuming that both of them reached the finals.)

[Proto]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Well. I'd actually categorize Achiga as Tier 3 players, as they're not even on par with the Tier 2 labeled here:

Tier 1 consists of the heavy hitter demons like Teru, Saki, Koromo, etc.

Tier 2 includes that of Mihoko, Stealth Momo, Touka, Nodoka, etc.

I don't know. In that case I feel that either Ritz is condradicting herself, or Nagano is really a nest of monsters, given that Achiga was said to handily defeat every second place in the nation they played against when they were training save for Ryuumonbuchi.

[RegalStar]

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

Question: I am having a headache here... How far do you guys agree that waiting on a word tile is good?(Having a lot of thought into this, cause I saw in online games sometimes people wait on word tiles.)

Word tiles are VERY good to wait on, especially if they're guest winds to other people, or if there's one of it in the discard pile already. I would actually perfer a single pair hell wait on a guest wind than pretty much anything with less than 4 tiles left on the field, and I have seen many situations where people would call one or two tiles early on to get in a double pair wait with one of them being a yakuhai, counting on it as the sole yaku for the hand (for example, 23455m 567s chun*2; called 6(7)8p, waiting on both 5m and chun but in actuality chun only as 5m has no yaku), as well as having done the same thing many times as well.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Proto

I don't know. In that case I feel that either Ritz is condradicting herself, or Nagano is really a nest of monsters, given that Achiga was said to handily defeat every second place in the nation they played against when they were training save for Ryuumonbuchi.

To quote one seinen manga, there's a limit to how far mere skill can take you. Both Ako and Shizuno, for example, can probably eke out a respectable win percentage against normal opponents. Stress on normal.

However, this is the Sakiverse, where many players are anything BUT normal. Only in the Legend of Koizumi are things more ridiculous, I think.

When faced with opponents that have both skill and lesbian mahjong hax (at the table we had two -- Mihoko with her "See All", Momo with her stealth), it's going to be hard going. And while the Matsumi sisters (and maybe Arata) have magic mahjong abilities, they're VERY situational, to the point where a properly-prepared player like Yumi (who herself doesn't have any powers) can counter them handily.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

2. Akado Harue. Is she really their coach? Or just a sparring partner? We dun really see her giving good advice and improving the games of the girls here. Also, after basically thrashing them after getting 2nd, she did nothing at all. It's one of my peeves when going through the manga as well.

Y'know when the girls were celebrating after qualifying into the semi-finals? Well, the talk Harue did to snap the girls right back into place. That was coaching. She brought the girls right back to the right mentality going into the semi-finals, and the girls went off on their own to make the best use out of the day off, which is to do some training. Yet, they got lucky bumping into Stealth Momo of all people in Tokyo.

Originally Posted by Proto

every second place in the nation they played against when they were training save for Ryuumonbuchi.

If I recall -- they selected about 10 prefectures to visit.

[Proto]

To quote one seinen manga, there's a limit to how far mere skill can take you. Both Ako and Shizuno, for example, can probably eke out a respectable win percentage against normal opponents. Stress on normal.

Huh? Well they were stomping people left and right during the regionals and the first round, and even recovered from Kuro's huge deficit on the second round, so I'd like to think they are at least deifinitely and significantly better than average.

When faced with opponents that have both skill and lesbian mahjong hax (at the table we had two -- Mihoko with her "See All", Momo with her stealth), it's going to be hard going. And while the Matsumi sisters (and maybe Arata) have magic mahjong abilities, they're VERY situational, to the point where a properly-prepared player like Yumi (who herself doesn't have any powers) can counter them handily.

Well in that case information does win. The Achiga people themselves had very lil intel on their opponents other than hearsay, so that really worked against them in that case. Let's hope it was a one time thing.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

Question: I am having a headache here... How far do you guys agree that waiting on a word tile is good?(Having a lot of thought into this, cause I saw in online games sometimes people wait on word tiles.)

It depends if that word title is the dora indicator, it is a bad idea, if it's a wind not of round/position isn't a good idea, but can work. Otherwise as long it hasn't been discarded already and you're willing to pon, it's a good wait, unless your hand was otherwise aiming for Tan-Yao (No terms/Honors; ie no words or 1/9s), worst case scenario someone else has the 2 of the same title and it becomes unlikely that either of you will discard them(unless it's a position wind).

[Scarletknive]

Thanks for giving me answers about the questions I asked. Really appreciated.

Having watched episode 8, I think the "train" is starting to move...

... Though the starting gives a cool of the breeze first...

[Mow Yun]

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

Thanks for giving me answers about the questions I asked. Really appreciated.

Having watched episode 8, I think the "train" is starting to move...

... Though the starting gives a cool of the breeze first...

The "pain train" certainly is a good descriptor of Teru's ability (abilities?) (laugh)

[EroKing]

Freebies.

[night_sentinel]

@TheEroKing


Thanks for the freebies. I love the Toki x Ryuuka ones.
That reminds me ep. 8 have a good Toki x Ryuuka scene... apparently Ryuuka is still Toki's personal pillow even at bedtime or perhaps especially bedtime?

@Proto

They played against 7 teams not all prefecture and barring Ryuumonbuchi they were able to beat the other 6 teams.

Regarding Achiga's strength after some thinking I do not think that they are weak, its just the teams in Nagano are crazy strong. Each team in Nagano is national class and would probably do well in the nationals.

* Kazekoshi seems to have a reputation since Arata recognized Mihoko as the captain of the famous Kazekoshi school. Mihoko herself is a top tier player and has mahjong hax. Kana have an undeserved reputation of being weak but that's because she went up against full moon! Koromo and Saki. I think she was ranked 2nd in Kazekoshi actually. If Kana played a different position she may have given us a strong showing.

* Ryuumonbuchi also made a splash when they went to the Nationals. Many teams commented that they were strong and I think on episode 3, Akado have thought that when she watched Ryuumonbuchi at the nationals that it was a team of monsters which is why she did not believe that Kiyosumi will win the prefecture tournament. Besides, Touka actually recruited her members from all over the country and Koromo is a recognized monster player.

* Tsuruga is another well made team with 2 aces (Yumi and Momo) and it was those aces that Achiga fought against. Momo invisibility mode is hard to defend against really, she was only beaten by Nodoka because Nodoka is Momo's kryptonite. And really I expected that they will lose compared to Yumi who managed to put up a fight with 2 overpowered demons.

So yes it would probably best to say that Nagano is a nesting ground of monsters than say Achiga is weak.

On another note, if we say:
1= skilled mahjong player (average strength players of prefecture tourney players)
2= national level player ( average strength of national tourney players)
3= above national level player ( Achiga team, Kanbara,)
4= minor monster ( Yumi, Mihoko, Momo, etc)
5= major monster ( Koromo , Toki, Saki, etc )
6= possibly Teru? ( force of nature according to Arakawa kei

Most national probably consist of tier 2 players with at least one player being above that tier.
For example :
Arakawa Kei's team which Achiga beat is probably composed of:
Tier 5 - Arakawa Kei
Tier 2 - mook player
Tier 2 - mook player
Tier 2 - mook player
Tier 2 - mook player
Arakawa Kei's team has a total of 13 team power points.

Achiga's team is probably like this :
Tier 3 = Kuro because her mahjong hax has a really poor defence
Tier 3/4 = Yuu
Tier 3 = Ako
Tier 3 = Arata
Tier 3 = Shizuno
Achiga has a total of 15 power points

Thus Arakawa Kei's team despite her being a high class monster < Achiga team

So in a way its actually correct to say that Achiga is well rounded team with no one to drag their team performance down but at the same time they don't have anyone who will pull their team performance up.



@ Peanutbutter

4. I think this is mostly for plot reasons, not wanting to spoil the result of the Kiyosumi battle which they will cover at season 2 of Saki. And as Qilin said they probably don't want to lose their driving motivation.

But I can understand your point, if I have a close friend who I have not seen in a long time I'll grab the opportunity to see her as soon as possible. Which is why, I think that the Achiga meeting Saki on ep 3 was a wasted opportunity.

Don't get me wrong I liked that scene (its so badass ) and probably replayed it at least twenty times but if they just asked Saki about Nodoka they'll probably have met each other by now and cheering each other's team as they progress through the finals so that they can have a friendly team battle.

And despite many claims that Saki figuratively "stole" Nodoka, in reality Saki would probably be the most sympathetic and understanding of Achiga's motivation considering it mirrors her motivation regarding Teru.

But, of course Achiga doesn't know that so its forgivable . Badass mode! Saki made a really strong impression...

[kona~chan]

mihoko as minor monster really underrated IMO, indeed she doesn't had flashy finishing move but her see all abilities made her capable to discover other players weakness and avoid any attack that comes, at least i never see players who able to hit her directly.

[teja208]

@night_sentinel Kuro being tier 3 sounds reasonable IF she manages to overcome her weakness. For now, I would place her on tier 2.

Also, where would you place Kana then? She beat the crap out of Achiga as well.

Maybe you're overthinking things. Episode 8 is obviously just for fanservice cameo for those who are fan of the main series or else there should be more detail given about how Achiga team are supposed to improve themselves. Appearently, none of those details were shown or explained on screen. Maybe we will get to see them later in form of flashbacks.

EDIT: I would also like to see how you place Senoo Kaori with her beginner's luck.

[night_sentinel]

I would like to state that the tier I made is not really fixed, sometimes conditions would favor the other person.

For example. if its your first time playing Kuro there may be a chance that you won't make a strategy to beat her. It is also possible that you'll be overwhelmed by Kuro that you won't notice her playstyle. At this state, Kuro's strength would be akin to Tier 4.

But, it only work once and as kona~chan said its a really crippling weakness like a large bullseye to ones back saying hit me! hit me!... . Thus, she would be more like Tier 2 or Tier 1 at the worse possible case.

Which is why I gave Kuro a tier 3 as her average of both her state at her weakness and at her strongest.

Regarding Mihoko she is clearly above Team Achiga so higher than Tier 3. But, I put her below Koromo and Saki (Oh btw, the list assumes that everyone is playing their best so its full power Koromo and Saki). Since she is above Achiga (Tier 3) but below Koromo (Tier 5). Then, I put her in Tier 4 and in the individuals she was on par with Yumi and Hisa.

And yes, it is highly probable that I'm overthinking this.

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

Freebies.

I will take 1 of these if you don't mind. Thanks for the sigs. (For now I am reserving these 2, give me about 3 days... asking night_sentinel.)

Note:Saved and kept for when my signature becomes very boring...(And of course, for some Toki x Ryuuka goodness

[Qilin]

Ah. No Saki discussion is complete without bringing up power tiers.

It amuses me how people always rank Yumi highly despite her lacking any kind of supernatural ability. I'd guess that it's a testament to her highly flexible play style, which allows her to adapt to the abilities of her opponents.

She's just cool like that.

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by Qilin

Ah. No Saki discussion is complete without bringing up power tiers.

It amuses me how people always rank Yumi highly despite her lacking any kind of supernatural ability. I'd guess that it's a testament to her highly flexible play style, which allows her to adapt to the abilities of her opponents.

She's just cool like that.

Since she has no ability, she can just play flexible.

Which brings me to this question: Why you need ability when all you need is just training and skills?(I mean come on, like Saki's Infinite Rinshan Kaihou works, Fujita pro can stop her, somemore Fujita pro has no ability.)

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

Since she has no ability, she can just play flexible.

Which brings me to this question: Why you need ability when all you need is just training and skills?

Ideally, that would indeed be the case, but the fact remains that just about all of the really good players in the Saki-verse have some crazy mahjong powers, setting aside the pros. A few exceptions would be Yumi and Nodoka, though it could be argued that Nodoka's digital style reaches supernatural levels.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

Which brings me to this question: Why you need ability when all you need is just training and skills?(I mean come on, like Saki's Infinite Rinshan Kaihou works, Fujita pro can stop her, somemore Fujita pro has no ability.)

What was that saying again? Age and experience usually beats youth and vigor? Despite doing nothing in the first season, one has to remember that Fujita IS a professional player, who does at least 2000 games a year on the mahjong circuit, and she's ten years older than everyone else in the cast. That's got to count for something, and while she's not unbeatable -- Koromo has beaten her in that Pro-Am tourney points-wise, and Cold Touka pretty much steamrolled her in the manga along with Saki and Koromo -- she can still hold her own.

Originally Posted by Qilin

It amuses me how people always rank Yumi highly despite her lacking any kind of supernatural ability.

Saki is a series about cheering for the underdog, and what could be more of an underdog than simply being a skilled player in a setting where many possess lesbian mahjong hax? Plus Yumi is pretty cool.

[Qilin]

^ I can live with that, especially since Yumi IS one of the cooler characters in the series.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Cold Touka pretty much steamrolled her in the manga along with Saki and Koromo -- she can still hold her own.

Huh. I was under the impression that Cold Touka's ability is more attuned to the "flow of the tiles", as opposed to her usual digital play style.