Final Fantasy XIV

[Kaihan]

Special talk session about FFXIV Realm Reborn.

I just started watching so I really don't know much about it.
Has sub in English/French/German.

Note: It's a hour long.

[Kyero Fox]

Aww no mention to why they added male miqote. I Wanted to know.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Aww no mention to why they added male miqote. I Wanted to know.

Because people have wanted male mithra since XI.

[Vexx]

Syn is waving Miqo'te at me .... dammit, thought I was shelving MMOs for a while.

[kyp275]

Well, and so it all ends


The in-game final event was underwhelming to say the least, a continual time-out/dc fest that put Atomos to shame, but me and my LS had plenty of fun on vent during it regardless, many people who quit the game before came back to see the end, so it was pretty nice

The crowning moment of the night though, has to be this end cutscene/trailer, which is probably the best CGI movie sequence I've seen from Square in a long while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=39j5v8jlndM

[Kyero Fox]

That was amazing. so are we going into time or past?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

If only the people making the gameplay have any quality relation to the CGI animators...

FF needs solid gameplay foundations. One can't assume you can release an incomplete game and "patch it later".

Sure, the likes of Skyrim are filled with game bugs, but all the game features are present, even if they don't always work as planned.

I feel bad for SE. I think there were some bad decisions made by leaders and there was nothing the grunts could do about it.

FFXI was a success... I wonder what went wrong that its sequel was so different? Shouldn't one build upon what worked?

It's all about transition between what the cut scenes show and what you actually see when playing. Maybe this is why Bethesda gave up on rendered cut-scenes and only use the game engine to make their trailers. It's not just that you want to look like you are in a cutscene, you have to play like you are in one. There was much work in Skyrim to make dragon fights as epic as the trailer. To make it feel like the trailer and the game are almost seamless. And this means good controls, camera work, and game mechanics that reward you for being the protagonist.

I am not trying to bash Square. I had been their fan since FFIV. I want a FF game that I am dying to play, that I would by an overpriced console for, that I would preorder for. This was what Squaresoft once meant to me.
The current MMO problems are not isolated, the entire business model is in doubt.

I just want my old Squaresoft back.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

That was amazing. so are we going into time or past?

AFAIK we're sent five years into the future, but we'll see

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I feel bad for SE. I think there were some bad decisions made by leaders and there was nothing the grunts could do about it.

Yup, Tanaka's stewardship of FF14 did not end well. As much as I loved FFT, the job he did with 14 was simply atrocious. Yoshi-P on the other hand has been great, the game improved tremendously under his watch, even though he had to work within the confines of the very flawed framework left to him, while designing and building a completely new game at the same time.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

FFXI was a success... I wonder what went wrong that its sequel was so different? Shouldn't one build upon what worked?

Yes and no, another MMO like FFXI would probably not survive today's market, it's changed too much since the early 2000s. I would also argue that what actually went wrong was that some key elements remained unchanged from their FF11 days - namely Tanaka and his stubbornness, and that they think they can deploy 14 like they did with 11 - full of flaws, and patch it later. Remember, FF11 started off as a clusterf**k too, there was just a lot less competition in the field back in those days.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's all about transition between what the cut scenes show and what you actually see when playing. Maybe this is why Bethesda gave up on rendered cut-scenes and only use the game engine to make their trailers. It's not just that you want to look like you are in a cutscene, you have to play like you are in one. There was much work in Skyrim to make dragon fights as epic as the trailer. To make it feel like the trailer and the game are almost seamless. And this means good controls, camera work, and game mechanics that reward you for being the protagonist.

eh, one is not inherently better than the other, it's all about the execution. Both rendered and real-time cutscenes have their own strength and weaknesses, not to mention there are practicality when it comes to gameplay limitations, especially for MMOs.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

FFXI was a success... I wonder what went wrong that its sequel was so different? Shouldn't one build upon what worked?

I haven't followed FFXIV too closely. However, a commonly cited opinion is that project leadership stopped observing the trends around them.

Traditional Square philosophy was to avoid emulating the competition and to be cautious when dealing with player feedback (i.e. take note of what people like/dislike, but don't change your work just to suit players). Creators were supposed to stick to their gut feeling, which was the only way to make something true to their vision. However, that doesn't work well with games that run and evolve over several years, plus MMORPGs are too risky to create with an insular approach to design.

On FFXI, Square studied Ultima Online and Everquest because they'd never made an online game before. However, once their product took off, they reverted back to their old way as if they no longer needed any guidance (IIRC, the former producer admitted that he hadn't tried another MMORPG since Star Wars Galaxies). Technical issues aside, the fate of XIV was probably sealed from the start.

As much as I loved FFT, the job he did with 14 was simply atrocious. Yoshi-P on the other hand has been great, the game improved tremendously under his watch

There has been a clash of generations, with the old guard and younger employees having different ideas on how development should proceed. On FFXI and XIV, I suspect that Tanaka was trying to protect his original vision, whereas others have been more willing to cater to player demands.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I went and looked up the FF14 theme song lyrics.

It was sad, prophetic, yet hopeful. Strange that the song you first hear, became the Epitaph of the game. Now, we try again...
Thy life is a riddle to bear rapture and sorrow
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow
In one fleeting moment from the land doth life flow
Yet in one fleeting moment for anew it doth grow
In the same fleeting moment thou must live, die and know

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by kyp275

eh, one is not inherently better than the other, it's all about the execution. Both rendered and real-time cutscenes have their own strength and weaknesses, not to mention there are practicality when it comes to gameplay limitations, especially for MMOs.

Doesn't look like it might still be an issue but - I can't even remember which FF it was but I recall spending quite a while in character design and then watching it all vanish in-game. Couple that with the irritation the keyboard UI gave me and I stopped even bothering to try. I'm told those issues are no longer issues, so I'm willing to give this puppy a try.

This may be my last attempt with MMOs given the repeated disappointments I've had in the last five years - so here's hoping it flies.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Doesn't look like it might still be an issue but - I can't even remember which FF it was but I recall spending quite a while in character design and then watching it all vanish in-game. Couple that with the irritation the keyboard UI gave me and I stopped even bothering to try. I'm told those issues are no longer issues, so I'm willing to give this puppy a try.

This may be my last attempt with MMOs given the repeated disappointments I've had in the last five years - so here's hoping it flies.

Since FF11 is the only other MMO in the franchise, I would imagine that was the game you tried.

Unfortunately, it was (and remains) a PS2-quality game graphically speaking, especially when it comes to the textures, so that's why there was such a discrepancy between the character creator and ingame model. Also, the UI in that game wasn't all that great either, primarily due to Square's refusal to create separate UI for the PS2 and PC players *looks in Tanaka's general direction*

Neither of which will be an issue in ARR, so you don't have anything to worry about as far as that goes.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Since FF11 is the only other MMO in the franchise, I would imagine that was the game you tried.

Unfortunately, it was (and remains) a PS2-quality game graphically speaking, especially when it comes to the textures, so that's why there was such a discrepancy between the character creator and ingame model. Also, the UI in that game wasn't all that great either, primarily due to Square's refusal to create separate UI for the PS2 and PC players *looks in Tanaka's general direction*

Neither of which will be an issue in ARR, so you don't have anything to worry about as far as that goes.

That's pleasant to hear ... I guess my other question relates to roleplay guilds in FF universe. Are there any deep/immersive RP guilds? I just tend to like to stay in-character and that gets hard to do when half the guild is yapping about sports or politics.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's pleasant to hear ... I guess my other question relates to roleplay guilds in FF universe. Are there any deep/immersive RP guilds? I just tend to like to stay in-character and that gets hard to do when half the guild is yapping about sports or politics.

I believe SE has mentioned designating specific servers as RP servers, though for now there isn't much details available. It's probably something that will get more mention as the game moves closer to beta and release.

That being said, it really depends on the type of "guild" you join, while most isn't going to be hardcore RP guilds, some will be far more receptive to in-character players. For example, my Linkshell (guild) in FF14 often have friendly back-and-forth between the members of the different grand companies (usually about which one is more awesome, which of course is Limsa! Till Sea Swallows All! ). Most chat tends to be game-related, while the real-world topics are usually kept to a minimum.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by kyp275

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=39j5v8jlndM

Amazing ending, most well done sequence from Visual Works in a long time.

BTW, the was a Q&A session with Naoki Yoshida just a day ago:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/57667

[Kyero Fox]

Ouch, player marrage but no same sex "At first" this is gonna cause a bit of chatter. I can already hear the hundreds of yaoi fans crying that they can't marry their catboys They did say at first tho, so don't give up

[synaesthetic]

Yes, and Bioware said no same-sex companion romances "at first" too, and it's still not implemented.

"No at first" basically means "never, fuck off you dirty homos."

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Yes, and Bioware said no same-sex companion romances "at first" too, and it's still not implemented.

"No at first" basically means "never, fuck off you dirty homos."

Of course, the silly thing is that the people playing the characters might have different genders to their persona.

So what happens when a couple in real life wants to marry in their game as well, but the husband decided to have a female avatar?

That's what happens when symbolic conservationism fails in a modern setting.

[synaesthetic]

If they're not going to let characters of the same sex marry in-game, they should just not put an in-game marriage option in at all. Just let the characters roleplay it, since the RPers are the only ones who are likely to even care in the first place.

[Vexx]

A lot of Korean/Japanese MMOS are "weird" in this way... I've even run into a few that demanded you play your own sex (though the filter wasn't too hard to work around). Call them "companions" or something (cue "bro" duo action movie) and just leave the code in place except for clipping off the "if "male/female"" code.

Question: are there any in-game benefits to marriage? (some games actually boost stats when you fight with your 'significant other')