Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Mind sharing with us why HF is your favorite route?

Amendment: My favourite scene is in HF (the confess scene of Shirou->Sakura).

My favourite route is UBW.

[Altima of the Gates]

Sakura was indeed very well portrayed in this route. Even when clashing with Shirou and Rin, you could always feel that "something" tearing away at her, so you couldn't see her as "just" a cruel villainess. The last battle between her and Rin brought a new perspective to me about their relationship, just how kind Rin really is, and just how deeply Sakura respected (and envied) her. My Sakura moe-meter just completely exploded in this route. She's definitely my favorite out of all the Fate heroines. :wub:

Rin as I said earlier, tried her best to make herself into the cold, serious magus, but damn, when it came to dealing with her sister, she just loses. When Kotomine said to Shirou that if Rin killed Sakura, she would then
go mad, I agreed wholeheartedly. Rin cannot complain to Shirou about being a softie at all.

Ilya. Oh Ilya. She was just fantastic. You really get to see such a great bond with her and Shirou, it tugs at your heart that they wouldn't be able to live togther as siblings (moreso for me since I've been reading Fate/zero - Damnit! Why can't we have the happy family of Kiritsugu, Shirou, Ilya, and Iri! Bah.). She was as good of an advisor as Rin in the story, and quite a strong character that really makes me want an Ilya route as well.

And Shirou. As said before he was definitely badass. Such a fiercely loyal spirit I was more than glad him showcase here. Even with his brain slowly turning into pudding, he stood up magnificently and did what he had to do when it mattered the most. The Nine Bullet Revolver scene was really great, and you could feel the fear that Shirou was going through of not only failing Ilya, but losing his consciousness to Archer's arm. Real guts and determination was shown from then on, and I liked how, even with his mind fragmented, and with a fading consciousness, he soldiered forth doing what he could for those he loved, he really took things in stride. Hopefully with this route, we'll get less of the "he's a wimp" crap.

Also, I liked both ends, but I liked the True End better. While I can appreciate the Normal End, to me its medicine; logically, you take it because its necessary, but you don't really enjoy taking it. I just felt that after the overall bitter atmosphere, more sobering was a wee bit much. But I do like it for what it was, and Shirou was particularly heroic. Also, although Sakura did seem to be getting "stronger," to me it was more like she was just enduring, you know what I mean? Plus seeing her grow old and just endure, endure, endure, and endure some more was bit much for me.
For these reasons, I liked the True End more, and I believe it is just as valid as the Normal End, call me soft if you want.

Overall a great ending to a wondrous story. *applauds*

[Blade_Lord]

And Shirou. As said before he was definitely badass. Such a fiercely loyal spirit I was more than glad him showcase here. Even with his brain slowly turning into pudding, he stood up magnificently and did what he had to do when it mattered the most. The Nine Bullet Revolver scene was really great, and you could feel the fear that Shirou was going through of not only failing Ilya, but losing his consciousness to Archer's arm. Real guts and determination was shown from then on, and I liked how, even with his mind fragmented, and with a fading consciousness, he soldiered forth doing what he could for those he loved, he really took things in stride. Hopefully with this route, we'll get less of the "he's a wimp" crap.

A fool who cannot defeat even a weakened version of the servant with his own power(I mean his own power not archer's)...precisely the reason why I prefer Shirou in UBW route than HF route, I mean come on he's against a full strength King of Heroes.

Also, I liked both ends, but I liked the True End better. While I can appreciate the Normal End, to me its medicine; logically, you take it because its necessary, but you don't really enjoy taking it. I just felt that after the overall bitter atmosphere, more sobering was a wee bit much. But I do like it for what it was, and Shirou was particularly heroic. Also, although Sakura did seem to be getting "stronger," to me it was more like she was just enduring, you know what I mean? Plus seeing her grow old and just endure, endure, endure, and endure some more was bit much for me.
For these reasons, I liked the True End more, and I believe it is just as valid as the Normal End, call me soft if you want.

Spoiler for HF True Ending:

I prefer the Normal Ending instead of HF True Ending. Shirou actually sacrifice Illya just so he can keep on living. Man, I rather die than let someone else die for my sake....well that's my opinion anyway. I dunno about you guys.

[Kyral]

Phew! Ok, finished HF now.

I must say it was pretty epic, and I love how they used some new music tracks (espacially that 'All Evil of the World' uses the same melody as 'Church on the Hill' I love both tracks!).

Another thing that cracked me up was Yukari Tamura's voice in both endings.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

A fool who cannot defeat even a weakened version of the servant with his own power(I mean his own power not archer's)...precisely the reason why I prefer Shirou in UBW route than HF route, I mean come on he's against a full strength King of Heroes.

Spoiler for HF True Ending:

I prefer the Normal Ending instead of HF True Ending. Shirou actually sacrifice Illya just so he can keep on living. Man, I rather die than let someone else die for my sake....well that's my opinion anyway. I dunno about you guys.

HEH?!!

1.) In this route, he barely got time enough to understand his own power, and besides, his mind is basically shattering every time he uses it, so its not really even beneficial in the fact that its turning him into a living corpse and a vegetable. Plus, in UBW, and I'm not saying Shirou wasn't good, but the ONLY reason that he won was because Gilgamesh was incredibly overconfident to the point of blind arrogance and continued to try to prove his swords were superior to Shirou's. It wasn't even about killing Shirou anymore, it was about his injured pride. Also, you mentioned how Shirou was fighting a weakened Berserker and not using his own powers? Hello? Was he ever taught the route of his powers before he got Archer's arm in this route? No. So he used what he could at the time. Besides, even though he was blind and weakened(weakened as his purity as a demigod was weakened since he was tainted and some stats went down), he was still as physically powerful as he always was and Shirou was fighting him HEAD ON, destroying what little advantage he had over Berserker, no eyesight.
Say what you want, he was at a huge disadvantage and used what he had to, hell, even that wasn't enough and he STILL needed one more blow to kill him.

2.)

Spoiler for Ending:

Shirou never asked Ilya to do that. He didn't have a mind enough to ask, and didn't even know she was there or that it was her immediately cause his brains were going to crap at the time. When he realized who it was and what she was trying to do, he begged her to stop, but it was entirely her decision. She thought, "Hey, if I'm going to die anyway soon enough, I might as well save him at least." Blaming Shirou for that when he also would have preferred to die instead totally ruins the tenderness of that scene and the bond that grew between them.

[Darkside]

I just finished HF today. UBW is still my favorite route, but this one was very epic.

This route changed my opinion of Kotomine's character and I like him quite a bit now. I only wish there was a way to save Saber . The scene where you beat her with rider was quite touching. I scene where you fight her 1v1 was very cool as well, though it's too bad you fry your brain in the process :\

After playing UBW and HF, I must say the 2nd half of the anime was rather disastrous.

[Blade_Lord]

1.) In this route, he barely got time enough to understand his own power, and besides, his mind is basically shattering every time he uses it, so its not really even beneficial in the fact that its turning him into a living corpse and a vegetable. Plus, in UBW, and I'm not saying Shirou wasn't good, but the ONLY reason that he won was because Gilgamesh was incredibly overconfident to the point of blind arrogance and continued to try to prove his swords were superior to Shirou's. It wasn't even about killing Shirou anymore, it was about his injured pride. Also, you mentioned how Shirou was fighting a weakened Berserker and not using his own powers? Hello? Was he ever taught the route of his powers before he got Archer's arm in this route? No. So he used what he could at the time. Besides, even though he was blind and weakened(weakened as his purity as a demigod was weakened since he was tainted and some stats went down), he was still as physically powerful as he always was and Shirou was fighting him HEAD ON, destroying what little advantage he had over Berserker, no eyesight.
Say what you want, he was at a huge disadvantage and used what he had to, hell, even that wasn't enough and he STILL needed one more blow to kill him.

First of all...try to maintain a friendly atmosphere here.
And secondly, Dark Berserker is weakened and BLIND. Yet he won because of pure dumb luck.He's lucky that Berserker does Nine Lives before with the axe-sword.

[Darkside]

Berserker never used 9 lives with his axe-sword earlier. His mad enhancement prevented him from using such an ability. Yea Shirou was lucky that Berserker stopped his last attack before hitting him, because he saw Ilya, though it was still very ballsy of Shirou to even attempt taking Dark Berserker head on and using Archer's arm for the first time with no safe guarantee that it would work out as planned. Dark Berserker being blind also didn't appear to be much of a disadvantage for him against an opponent like Shirou, as his attacks he made before Shirou annihilated him were all on target.

[Blade_Lord]

Berserker never used 9 lives with his axe-sword earlier.

Then please explain how come Berserker's skill Nine lives can be executed just by replicating the axe sword?If it's just how it is Shirou cannot use Nine lives at all and he will just swing it around like an idiot.

And by the way mad enhancement prevents Berserker using his bow, that is his Nine lives:Shooting Hundred Heads....not the skill itself.

[Darkside]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Then please explain how come Berserker's skill Nine lives can be executed just by replicating the axe sword?If it's just how it is Shirou cannot use Nine lives at all and he will just swing it around like an idiot.

And by the way mad enhancement prevents Berserker using his bow, that is his Nine lives:Shooting Hundred Heads....not the skill itself.

Oh yea my mistake, 9 Lives was actually the bow and arrow set and the ability was adapted to other weapons.

It could have been knowledge already stored in Archers left arm or he may have gained the knowledge of the attack after just seeing the weapon. Berserker certainly did not use the attack in either of the other two times that Shirou saw Berserker, otherwise Saber would have been torn to shreds in the very beginning of the story, and he was in no position to execute that attack when fighting True Assassin and Dark Saber earlier in the forest, because his body was being restricted by the Shadow. My best guess is that the knowledge of the ability was already stored in Archer's Unlimited Blade Works, and Shirou gained it after releasing the left arm.

[Blade_Lord]

Originally Posted by Darkside

Oh yea my mistake, 9 Lives was actually the bow and arrow set and the ability was adapted to other weapons.

It could have been knowledge already stored in Archers left arm or he may have gained the knowledge of the attack after just seeing the weapon. Berserker certainly did not use the attack in either of the other two times that Shirou saw Berserker, otherwise Saber would have been torn to shreds in the very beginning of the story, and he was in no position to execute that attack when fighting True Assassin and Dark Saber earlier in the forest, because his body was being restricted by the Shadow. My best guess is that the knowledge of the ability was already stored in Archer's Unlimited Blade Works, and Shirou gained it after releasing the left arm.

So Berserker probably use it before the grail war...like against the wolves in the forest...

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

First of all...try to maintain a friendly atmosphere here.
And secondly, Dark Berserker is weakened and BLIND. Yet he won because of pure dumb luck.He's lucky that Berserker does Nine Lives before with the axe-sword.

Oh I am friendly...
Anyway,
He was also pretty lucky that Gil was so arrogant during UBW, but still, for both scenarios, for a HUMAN BEING this is still an accomplishment.
My point about him being blind was that it didn't matter, Shirou took him head-on which negated his advantage due to Berserker's instinct.

Also, about him being lucky with Nine-Lives, if you'll notice, before Caster died, Shirou was able to tell Rule Breaker could cancel magical contracts with a LOOK. And this was before getting Archer's arm. Plus, if you'll notice, when he projected the axe-club he actively searched for the technique. He didn't do something else because he looked for something that would end the fight quickly because he was still at a marked disadvantage with his mind and body falling apart, remember, using Archer's arm is really really bad.

[Blade_Lord]

"Replication of Unlimited Blade Work--impossible. His world and my world are different."

Looks like he's searching for something that have the highest chance of defeating Berserker and the lowest chance of turning him into jolly vegetable.

There's something I do not understand....

Shirou look at Rule Breaker and he knows what effect does Rule Breaker do etc etc

Yet in Sparks Liner High and the Nine Bullet Revolver scene he need to dig through the memories of the noble phantasm.And I use to think that all the info about a particular noble phantasm can be obtained just by looking at it.

Anyway,
He was also pretty lucky that Gil was so arrogant during UBW, but still, for both scenarios, for a HUMAN BEING this is still an accomplishment.

It's the right move actually. He cannot match Gilgamesh(stat-wise) so instead of the battle of skills it become a battle of noble phantasm. And he almost won.

After checking all the route my favorite quote is still:

"Do you have enough swords, King of Heroes?"

[Solafighter]

Playing the game every evening for 1 - 2 hours. Im at day 8 at the moment(huh, so many days left ^_^).

Very good and interesting game.

[Benny1]

Spoiler for Ilya:

Ilya dies regardless of whether or not she sacrifices herself, in every path where she doesn't die, I believe she dies very soon after the war ends, so it's not like she's giving up much. Still though, her sacrificing herself breaks my heart.

My favorite scene was Sisters (VII), to those not reading scene names, that's the last scene wtih Rin and Sakura. The CG at the end of that scene nearly had me bawling.

[wackedfoo]

i just finished HF but i'm missing one CG. it's the one in the 1st page, 3rd row, 2nd column, in between the ones where shirou and sakura are holding each other. any idea how i can get it? thanks.

overall, HF was good aside from it being too long. much like the rest of the game, it had a good story, but the execution wasn't always the best. i'm not a big sakura fan either, but i can't blame the path for that.

[aldw]

After playing through HF myself, I do say that if Rin really were as cold-hearted as she tried to present herself, then I'd rather see Arcueid et al wipe the floor with her. Thankfully that wasn't the case, which is why I've always thought Rin and Shirou made the best pair.

[salv87]

Originally Posted by aldw

Rin and Shirou made the best pair.

On this I just must agree.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by aldw

After playing through HF myself, I do say that if Rin really were as cold-hearted as she tried to present herself, then I'd rather see Arcueid et al wipe the floor with her. Thankfully that wasn't the case, which is why I've always thought Rin and Shirou made the best pair.

Originally Posted by salv87

On this I just must agree.

*Agrees.*
I have a feeling that this has already been discussed, but does anyone feel that Rin develops the most as a character in this route? Obviously, there's almost no development in Fate, and she honestly doesn't develop much even in UBW.

[Zarxs]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

.And I use to think that all the info about a particular noble phantasm can be obtained just by looking at it.

Almost all masters have a type of clairvoyance that allows them to "see" the stats of servants’ noble phantasms and skills when they are used. Shirou, however, had this ability naturally on a whole different level from the others. This allowed him, in some situations, to create swords he had barley even seen let alone knew the name of or ability.

As far as Hercules Berserker using Nine Lives; as long as he has mad enhancement he CANNOT use it because he dose not have the mental or hand eye coordination to pull off such a technique. I believe Berserker knew how to use Nine Lives but simply lacked the coordination to use it. This allowed Shirou to pry into that knowledge and use the technique. There is also the possibility that Hercules had the Axe Sword during his life time and used Nine Lives with it.