Job Hunting/ Job Interviews

[Irenicus]

One thing though, Don. Saintess has a point in that Asia really cares about your credentials, certainly comparatively more than the West. Sheer pizzazz, knowing your stuff, and interviewing mastery won't do you much good from the other side of the world.

Think of all those TOEFL's that translate into "I know Englisch" in employers' minds. You'll need engineering equivalents, enough to say you're worth the flight ticket and the (perceived) higher cost of hiring a Westerner.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I can talk a good game about autocad, lean manufacturing, etc. I know a lot about 3d modelling for construction. I'd like to get out of construction, though I don't mind doing more as a step to something else. Each member of my team produces about 100 engineering drawings a week, and I figured out how to do it.

Erm.....if I am an interviewer, I'd call that hot air.

They want things in black and white. Do you have a portfolio?

Contractors aren't so great here either! I don't mind a low wage, so long as it's high enough for the visa(3300 s$ a month) and to live on. Otherwise I'm fine paying for my own flights etc. I'd like to be in a decent company though, get good experience etc.

Average engineer here earns S$2.4-S$2.8k here per month. And they usually hire Westerners as advisors or offshore engineering works; that requires a set of good grades or 5 year experience in industry.

S$3.3k is a fad for employers in the engineering sector. They pay much less now

[Azuma Denton]

Agree with Saintess...
Mindset of "westerner expat" in SEA is expert.
Most of the company in my country (Indonesia) wont hire expat unless you are an expert especially in engineering field. Most of them isnt permanent either (contract based).

It's all part of cutting cost...

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

One thing though, Don. Saintess has a point in that Asia really cares about your credentials, certainly comparatively more than the West. Sheer pizzazz, knowing your stuff, and interviewing mastery won't do you much good from the other side of the world.

Think of all those TOEFL's that translate into "I know Englisch" in employers' minds. You'll need engineering equivalents, enough to say you're worth the flight ticket and the (perceived) higher cost of hiring a Westerner.

To be fair, I do have a university degree in Engineering from a good university in top 200 worldwide (even if I think that's stupid ) , even if the grades aren't stellar. Is that not enough for something entry level?

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Erm.....if I am an interviewer, I'd call that hot air.

They want things in black and white. Do you have a portfolio?

I could, but all my work is "top secret" and with engineering drawing it's more about lack of errors and speed then how it looks (making it nice is the easy part!)

I could mock something up though.

Average engineer here earns S$2.4-S$2.8k here per month. And they usually hire Westerners as advisors or offshore engineering works; that requires a set of good grades or 5 year experience in industry.

Singaporean government website said 3.3k for a visa, I don't personally mind less though, right now I earn 4.3k and live on half of that,for what it's worth. That said, I saw a lot of positions advertised on job boards, way more than here. How else are they filling them but through immigrants like myself?

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

Agree with Saintess...
Mindset of "westerner expat" in SEA is expert.
Most of the company in my country (Indonesia) wont hire expat unless you are an expert especially in engineering field. Most of them isnt permanent either (contract based).

It's all part of cutting cost...

Is there no way of getting into something entry level?

I don't mind low pay, bad hours, or whatever, but I'd really would like to live and work in Asia for a year or two. I'd prefer not to have to take a step down in career either. I've already waited through college and being unemployed, and I really don't want to wait longer. I know there's no sure fire easy way, but what are the fastest things I can do?

For instance are there any large construction projects happening in Singapore? What are the major construction companies there? The one thing I know is that when a project is starting, these companies aren't picky. And I know a LOT about construction at the moment.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

To be fair, I do have a university degree in Engineering, even if the grades aren't stellar. Is that not enough for something entry level?

NO.

You are different. You are an angmoh. Racial sterotypes are still very ingrained in the mentalities of SEA populations.

And you Westerners always score our girls because your dicks are genetically bigger.

I could, but all my work is "top secret" and with engineering drawing it's more about lack of errors and speed then how it looks (making it nice is the easy part!)

I could mock something up though.

I can bet that a fellow SG forum member here can do a job better than you; you have one year, he has 3 years, and he is currently doing his degree now overseas.

Most interviews run the way as described in the book You have 3 minutes co-wrote by Donald Trump, so unless you can present a mockup in that of a short time, I would rather you stick to a portfolio.

Singaporean government website said 3.3k for a visa, I don't personally mind less though, right now I earn 4.3k and live on half of that,for what it's worth. That said, I saw a lot of positions advertised on job boards, way more than here. How else are they filling them but through immigrants like myself?

Would you believe the guy living here his entire life and started working at the age of 14, or would you believe a bunch of scholars who wrote based on statistics and has never taken a job outside of government service before?

Is there no way of getting into something entry level?

I don't mind low pay, bad hours, or whatever, but I'd really would like to live and work in Asia for a year or two. I'd prefer not to have to take a step down in career either. I've already waited through college and being unemployed, and I really don't want to wait longer. I know there's no sure fire easy way, but what are the fastest things I can do?

You are starting to sound like one of those turdy fresh grads waving a salary survey and asking for a prestigious job with growth opportunities, so I shall tell you that you can start as a construction worker and earn $800 per month - 2 years down the road you might become a building leader for $1200, 4 years you might become a foreman for $1600.

Everyone starts somewhere. Besides, you don't have working experience you can bank on; I have 10 years of freelance IT, 3 years of F&B, 2 years of military, 1 year of electrical, 1 year of insurance agent, 3 years in security and bits of banking and logistics here and there. And that isn't even enough to get me a high salary to live comfortably and pay my uni fees.

And with the tightening foreign talent hiring here, you are in for a tough fight.

For instance are there any large construction projects happening in Singapore? What are the major construction companies there? The one thing I know is that when a project is starting, these companies aren't picky. And I know a LOT about construction at the moment.

I think you overestimate yourself.

Construction is not as simple as you think in Asia; we are as much like Japan as in Hong Kong and Singapore - the money comes only from two sources; either the government, or "that other one". Due to land scarcity, alot of the approvals have to go through EDB, URA, SLA, LTA and possibly HDB and MOH. Construction here is politically inclined first and economically inclined second; you have to know the ground and political inclinations, plus some connections in order to be able to get through.

Get half a decade under your belt first at least. Unless you are good at hyperbole or lying.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Would you believe the guy living here his entire life and started working at the age of 14, or would you believe a bunch of scholars who wrote based on statistics and has never taken a job outside of government service before?

Can you explain a bit more about that?

I means.... did you do it part-time under recommendations of someone? Or did you just drop out of school and roll out along with some relative/ family business? Is it something abnormal over there?

I means seriously, i understand Asian is competitive. But how the heck can people compete in years of experiences with a guy working since 14? Start to school their kids and send out to the market when they hit 12?


@DonQuigleone: how's about Melbourne? Asian populations are just 15%, but actual number in shopping malls, urban centers are much much higher ( i will say close to 50%, also due to oversea students). There are more Asians restaurants around Melbourne Center than not (which I already include fast food). Most are cheap through, so if you want something fancy and Asian (cost more than $15 a meal), may have to go to nearby suburb.

Two of the biggest uni within 1km from Melbourne Center, with RMIT the hub of oversea students, mostly Asian or Indian origins, so can freely carry out your hobbies

We don't speak or understand Irish through, so language barrier could be a problem for you

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Can you explain a bit more about that?

I means.... did you do it part-time under recommendations of someone? Or did you just drop out of school and roll out along with some relative/ family business? Is it something abnormal over there?

I means seriously, i understand Asian is competitive. But how the heck can people compete in years of experiences with a guy working since 14? Start to school their kids and send out to the market when they hit 12?

Hey Cambodia is worse. Kids work as young as 6.

I work freelance for spare cash, but parental consent is required for offical work. I started working part-time on weekends when I hit the working age at 16 for pocket cash.

Since most of the work is always being a bottom feeder, I more or less learned things the hard way, accounting for my short temper and serious problem with authority. Well at least I know the screwed up portions of society.

@DonQuigleone: how's about Melbourne? Actual Asian populations are just 15%, but actual number in shopping malls, urban centers are much much higher ( i will say close to 50%, also due to oversea students). There are more Asians restaurants around Melbourne Center than not (which I already include fast food). Most are cheaps, so may have to go to suburb to eat anything cost more than $15 a meal.

Two of the biggest uni within 1km from Melbourne Center, with RMIT the hub of oversea students, mostly Asian or Indian origins, so can freely carry out your hobbies

We don't speak or understand Irish through, so language barrier could be a problem for you

You are all the Queen's people - you all better know English or Grandma is gonna spank your butts with her oak cane.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Is there no way of getting into something entry level?

I don't mind low pay, bad hours, or whatever, but I'd really would like to live and work in Asia for a year or two. I'd prefer not to have to take a step down in career either. I've already waited through college and being unemployed, and I really don't want to wait longer. I know there's no sure fire easy way, but what are the fastest things I can do?

For instance are there any large construction projects happening in Singapore? What are the major construction companies there? The one thing I know is that when a project is starting, these companies aren't picky. And I know a LOT about construction at the moment.

Another problem is working visa permit...
It is not easy getting that.

Large construction project? In Indonesia, a lot. But like I say, they only involve western specialist.

Another way to work on your level entry is trying to get into multinational engineering consultant company and asked to be assign to APAC area.

[Dhomochevsky]

Have you thought about trying to score a job with a multi-national company which has subsidiaries in places you might want to go?

I am no expert in foreign job markets, but I do not see how it would make much sense for a local foreign company to hire you directly. The main reasons I can think of for hiring entry level/low experience people would be

- They are cheaper.
But you are not cheap, because you need the minimum salary for your working visa. Also SaintessHeart said that you would be seen as more expensive than a local, even if you were not.
- They have big potential, so the employer may go through the effort of training them into the perfect working bee.
You may have that, but it is unlikely you will stay with them until that pays off. And as was said before, potential seems to be mostly measured by grades...

Also you are a foreigner, so you need to bring something over the local guy, to make up for the additional effort of hiring you.

As an employer, I would also somewhat doubt your reasons/seriousness. If what Saintess said is true about the salary levels, then I would ask myself why this guy wants to work for me instead of making 3 times that much at home.
I'd expect he's not really serious about the job.

On the other hand, if you manage to get hired 'locally', or at least in some western/english country, then sent there, all these things are not a problem, or may even work in your favor.

[DonQuigleone]

@Saintessheart: I didn't mean that Singapore government said I could expect 3.3k, rather that wouldn't even get a visa unless I earn that much (basically I don't mind less, but the Singaporean government wouldn't even let me in). Otherwise I have no salary expectations. If I can break even I'm fine (in the short term).

However how you survive on 800 s$ when rent alone is usually 1000?

As for my reasons I want to experience living somewhere completely different, where I'm a minority, and maybe get a chance to learn mandarin. And I think I'll learn a lot in the process too. I think that beats the typical reason of "make loads of money".

And stealing all of SaintessHeart's girls would be a nice bonus too...

As for Australia, I've thought of that, but I have US citizenship, so I could always go to San Francisco or New York, but it wouldn't be the same as being in Asia itself.

That said anyone else gotten a job abroad? How did you do it? Doesn't matter if it's in Asia.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

@Saintessheart: I didn't mean that Singapore government said I could expect 3.3k, rather that wouldn't even get a visa unless I earn that much (basically I don't mind less, but the Singaporean government wouldn't even let me in). Otherwise I have no salary expectations. If I can break even I'm fine (in the short term).

However how you survive on 800 s$ when rent alone is usually 1000?

That is the take home. Your official take-home salary is sometimes declared higher than that, but a portion is cut off as "co-payment for employer subsidised rent" or "assisted funding for personal needs". Get what I mean?

As for my reasons I want to experience living somewhere completely different, where I'm a minority, and maybe get a chance to learn mandarin. And I think I'll learn a lot in the process too. I think that beats the typical reason of "make loads of money".

If you can supply Irish coffee beans authentic from where you live, you may work something out.

Go rob a coffee shop or enslave a coffee plantation owner first.

And stealing all of SaintessHeart's girls would be a nice bonus too...

Go boil your head along with the other adulterers. You are NOT coming near my lolis!

As for Australia, I've thought of that, but I have US citizenship, so I could always go to San Francisco or New York, but it wouldn't be the same as being in Asia itself.

That said anyone else gotten a job abroad? How did you do it? Doesn't matter if it's in Asia.

You should just try a Chinatown first. At least that place is not far from familiarity with English speakers. Or you can help Irenicus traffick bring in Asian lolis and bishoujos exotic entertainers from China for a continential high-rollers' experience in Las Vegas.

Remember, America is the land of the free and home of the brave! You can do anything there! You can even be a senator and traffick guns!

[sikvod00]

I'm currently in a state program which provides various job training to unemployed individuals who are receiving some type of govt assistance. I have a bachelor's degree in IT but no substantial work experience so it's been a frustrating 10+ months applying like crazy with no success.

The program will help me get some IT certifications and I don't have to pay a dime for the exam vouchers, classroom training, or study materials. I already received my MCTS: Windows 7 (not sure how useful) and am in the process of getting A+. Next up is Network+ and (maybe) Security+. Hopefully the certs will make me more attractive in the job marketplace.

[Domonkazu]

can you do programming? maybe you should hone your skill on that field.

[sikvod00]

Yes. Computer Science was my major before I switched to IT. Java, C#, and C are my best. I also know HTML, and some SQL and PHP.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

Yes. Computer Science was my major before I switched to IT. Java, C#, and C are my best. I also know HTML, and some SQL and PHP.

In my experience you can usually get a programming gig fairly easily as long as you know what you're interviewing for. If you're going for a Java position it shouldn't be too hard to find someone who is looking for a junior without much experience but with a clear drive to know the language and it's quirks. Same thing for most other languages as well. Do you actually like any thing in particular? A language? A framework? Anything?

Also it helps to have some work done on your own for example purposes. You can usually get something interesting that you particularly enjoy doing running on a cheap/free host and use that as a way to stand out from the crowd.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

I'm currently in a state program which provides various job training to unemployed individuals who are receiving some type of govt assistance. I have a bachelor's degree in IT but no substantial work experience so it's been a frustrating 10+ months applying like crazy with no success.

The program will help me get some IT certifications and I don't have to pay a dime for the exam vouchers, classroom training, or study materials. I already received my MCTS: Windows 7 (not sure how useful) and am in the process of getting A+. Next up is Network+ and (maybe) Security+. Hopefully the certs will make me more attractive in the job marketplace.

1. Where are you looking for job postings?
2. What's your approach to applications
3. Are you getting interviews?
4. How strong is the job market where you live?

[Sammy388]

The best advice I can give is don't take it personally if someone doesn't hire you. It can be difficult to send out tons of applications and not receive a job offer but remember that doesn't reflect upon you as a person so don't get discouraged! Also, approach a job this way: how can the company and I help each other. Sometimes we feel like as soon as we receive a job offer we have to take it and are lucky to get any offer but remember that you should benefit (not just the company). When you look at it that way, that you have a say in the final decision too, I find that this takes some of the edge off. Hope this helps and good luck with your job search!!

[Kafriel]

Hmm, status update...

1. My internship is over but I got hired right away. Salary drop of ~€170; the internship was partially gov-funded and now I've started collecting pension stamps for heavy labor (i.e. earlier retirement and a bigger pension fund in exchange for a larger monthly hold).

2. I've been employed as a technician, although my degree as an electrical engineer has been recognized, giving me a whooping €40 bonus per month...I think graduating out of a technical high-school and just working an extra 7 years would have been better than this, kinda feels like I wasted 5 years getting my degree.

3. Still, while I was serving my time in the army, a LOT of stuff changed here in Greece and...well, I found out that it really doesn't get any better than this.

My 40-million-dollar question to you is: FML in 30 years of toiling away or huzzah for having a job when unemployment is practically at 40%?

[willx]

Whew, so I just finished an insane project that nearly broke me --

Just noticed Don was from Dublin, so this might be relevant for you: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/s...rket-1.1764085

And so, with that project under my belt, I'm back thinking about looking for new employment (after a long and well-deserved holiday). Despite my >6 years of finance experience, I'm finding the job market harder than I thought considering how much I hear about the markets in London and NYC booming. That said, I'm looking in particular at asset management, distressed investing and private equity roles.. so it's competitive enough and niche enough ..

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by willx

Whew, so I just finished an insane project that nearly broke me --

Just noticed Don was from Dublin, so this might be relevant for you: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/s...rket-1.1764085

And so, with that project under my belt, I'm back thinking about looking for new employment (after a long and well-deserved holiday). Despite my >6 years of finance experience, I'm finding the job market harder than I thought considering how much I hear about the markets in London and NYC booming. That said, I'm looking in particular at asset management, distressed investing and private equity roles.. so it's competitive enough and niche enough ..

Why don't you come over to my side and help manage whatever is left of our retirement funds.....