Guilty Crown - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Like he properly rescued them? No, Shu's never shown much in the way of tactical sense. His resolve's known some ups and lots of downs. He was letting everyone push him around - and his entourage was pushing for letting the F-rankers die.

But the Shoe doesn't work alone....

[Stiletto]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

that lyrics..... another Code Geass flag.....*sigh*

I think it is actually a play on loyalism. Something said to Adolf Hitler is strikingly similar. "Should the world abandon you, I will not."

The Void Ranking system is a mixture of monarchy and bigotry based on a person's complexes and emotions. Basically, they're rewarding the people most 'complete' in term of emotions. A kind of scientific racism that can only be applied in Guilty Crown universe.

As in, the void ranking system properly makes an allusion to Nazi Germany. You could very seriously have the F-rankers as the Abewehr (they aren't fit for combat use and are strictly intelligence. Which is in fact, a huge mistake because they're much more liable to conspire with enemy forces) and the C to B rankers as Gestapo (enforcers, are readily drafted and fit for combat) while A and potentially beyond are the highest court and aspiration (The Aryan race.)

Do you see the similarities?

[com_gwp]

Why do some people think that the F ranks were desperate to save themselves? It didn't seem to me that the F ranks went out to secure their own vaccine. The way I saw it, what was in play was just their mere foolish pride that couldn't accept being so lowly ranked, which made they act so stupidly in a bid to show that the ranking system is wrong.

See Souta? Because of your stupidity, you got Hare killed. Now Shu can never get comforted by her again ;_;

Also, Shu, wtf man, any good RPG teaches you not to only bring your healer along.

[Soji]

foolish pride

Yeah. that's was the big thing here( I mean when I said like that some post ago was at answer) .But you 're right this was the whole thing and because of this...Hare it's die and Shu demon it's free. I mean with all that happen in mere two/three weeks is obvious that he would eventually became like this . I recall about Mana and his past,he kill again Mana and Gai as well and now hare die. I suprise that he dont became even worse than this.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Soji

That's what you and they think. What made you think that Shu would never go to take the vaccine?

Because he never even raised the possibility. If he doesn't have the balls to do that, what makes you think he has them to actually do it?

Or after talk with Hare he would not do that? But the F-Rank do that stupid thing and we see how end.

The result is that Shu and Hare did something an order of magnitude dumber, which resulted in Hare's death and came close to killing Shu, too. He should either have come with the means to actually rescue them, or let them succeed or fail on their own. But he did the worst thing he could do instead.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

What is Shu weakness?
His kindness, so there no way he will watch them die and do nothing even if he have
to go to get it alone (you know, like this episode).

His kindness? That's an informed attribute seen by a girl in love. Shu was much closer to the mark - his biggest weakness is that he doesn't have the courage to express or even form his own opinion. He does, sometimes, when his back is to the wall, the courage to act. But that kind of last minute, improvised change of heart isn't enough, especially since he doesn't have the resolve to keep it up when it becomes tough or unpopular and just falls back to old patterns.

In other words; Shu will try to get vaccine even if he have to go to the hospital
with only Inory Void (Which will have a lot higher success rate than F Suota group).

Which would be a stupid risk to take. Shu is critical to everything they do, and not replaceable. In fact, that kind of half-assed attitude is why Hare died.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The result is that Shu and Hare did something an order of magnitude dumber, which resulted in Hare's death and came close to killing Shu, too. He should either have come with the means to actually rescue them, or let them succeed or fail on their own. But he did the worst thing he could do instead.

Perhaps so, but Shu had no way of knowing if there was enough time for that. And as we saw by how long it took Yahiro and the others to mobilize, Souta and his troupe probably would have been gonners by then (they only survived until Yahiro got there because Shu was there to draw GHQ away).

Souta was desperate to prove he was more than "just an F-rank" (and perhaps desperate to survive, though I didn't get the feeling that that was his primary motive), and made a mistake in the way he went about it. Shu was desperate to save Souta and the others, and made a mistake by rushing in there with just Hare and no good way of actually fighting. The way I see it, Souta's at fault for creating the situation while Shu is at fault for recklessly endangering Hare, but they both have their excuses I think.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Shu, wtf man, any good RPG teaches you not to only bring your healer along.

Oh man my conscience was screaming this so many times it's not even funny.

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Why do some people think that the F ranks were
desperate to save themselves? It didn't seem to me that the F ranks went out to secure their own vaccine. The way I saw it, what was in play was just their mere foolish pride that couldn't accept being so lowly ranked, which made they act so stupidly in a bid to show that the ranking system is wrong.

Yeah i'm starting to see that Youshiro's ranking system had a major oversight, it should have been ranked by name not void, i think we can all take a look to Avatar the last airbender to what happens when pride gets in the way.

Originally Posted by Stiletto

I think it is actually a play on loyalism. Something said to Adolf Hitler is strikingly similar. "Should the world abandon you, I will not."

The Void Ranking system is a mixture of monarchy and bigotry based on a person's complexes and emotions. Basically, they're rewarding the people most 'complete' in term of emotions. A kind of scientific racism that can only be applied in Guilty Crown universe.

As in, the void ranking system properly makes an allusion to Nazi Germany. You could very seriously have the F-rankers as the Abewehr (they aren't fit for combat use and are strictly intelligence. Which is in fact, a huge mistake because they're much more liable to conspire with enemy forces) and the C to B rankers as Gestapo (enforcers, are readily drafted and fit for combat) while A and potentially beyond are the highest court and aspiration (The Aryan race.)

Do you see the similarities?

Wow i don't know what to say, it's like a perfect breeding ground for insecurities and massive BSOD's.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Oh man my conscience was screaming this so many times it's not even funny.

Obviously he play too much 3E DnD where Clerics are walking powerhouses...

Who thinks he'll be forced to execute Yahiro sooner or later?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Obviously he play too much 3E DnD where Clerics are walking powerhouses...

Who thinks he'll be forced to execute Yahiro sooner or later?

It all hinges on him being the potential mole, Yahiro has a pretty good motive for wanting Shuu's head on a platter.

[blakstealth]

What motive?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Perhaps so, but Shu had no way of knowing if there was enough time for that. And as we saw by how long it took Yahiro and the others to mobilize, Souta and his troupe probably would have been gonners by then (they only survived until Yahiro got there because Shu was there to draw GHQ away).

If it was too late to do it right (and yes, it may have been), then all the more reason not to put Hare and himself in that situation. You can find all the excuses you want, but there's no getting around the fact it was a bad call on Shu's part.

Souta was desperate to prove he was more than "just an F-rank" (and perhaps desperate to survive, though I didn't get the feeling that that was his primary motive), and made a mistake in the way he went about it. Shu was desperate to save Souta and the others, and made a mistake by rushing in there with just Hare and no good way of actually fighting. The way I see it, Souta's at fault for creating the situation while Shu is at fault for recklessly endangering Hare, but they both have their excuses I think.

Souta's certainly at fault. But he was pushed into it, too.

Originally Posted by Crontica

Yeah i'm starting to see that Youshiro's ranking system had a major oversight, it should have been ranked by name not void, i think we can all take a look to Avatar the last airbender to what happens when pride gets in the way.

It's not pride. They just don't want to be abandoned.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Crontica

It all hinges on him being the potential mole, Yahiro has a pretty good motive for wanting Shuu's head on a platter.

More like his nature as his void clearly shows. His ranking plan indirectly killed Hare ...

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

What motive?

Shuu killed his brother, or failed to protect him when Yahiro intrusted him with his safety, Yahiro's lack of internal monologue after that incident is unnerving.

[Xeones]

Great episode, 9/10... but Hare's death was really sad, and Souta just earned his place in my: "Characters that should die in horrible ways" list.

Who thinks he'll be forced to execute Yahiro sooner or later?

I think that will happen too... and if the "current Shu" stays this way, he's probably gonna be executed in a very cold way... probably with a GS to the head.

Anyway... is it just me, or Shu's reaction after seeing Hare's death reminded of Lelouch when he had to kill Euphemia? I'm not saying that it's the same, after all the motives that caused the death were different, what I mean is that this is the moment were the guy abandons the last of his "nice feelings" and starts to go for an all-out vendetta...

I don't know what will happen in GC, but if Shu goes down the same path as Lelouch after that... then the GHQ are really screwed.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If it was too late to do it right (and yes, it may have been), then all the more reason not to put Hare and himself in that situation. You can find all the excuses you want, but there's no getting around the fact it was a bad call on Shu's part.

Of course it was a bad call on his part. My point was, though, that they both had excuses for why they made a bad call. It doesn't change the fact that they both made mistakes and were both at fault; personally, I'd call them equally at fault.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Shuu killed his brother, or failed to protect him when Yahiro intrusted him with his safety, Yahiro's lack of internal monologue after that incident is unnerving.

I think he already got over that. lol

[Sides]

Finally caught up... Noooo, not Hare.
Yahiro you fox, he was probably the one who left the ranking papers in the room, to provoke a reaction. Furthermore, the way Inori was glaring at him during the ride, she is probably suspecting that something is wrong with him.

BTW does that Tachikoma look-alike have an own AI or it is controller remotely, because he was the one who drove Shu and Hare to the place.

[Soji]

Yahiro you fox, he was probably the one who left the ranking papers in the room, to provoke a reaction. Furthermore, the way Inori was glaring at him during the ride, she is probably suspecting that something is wrong with him.

So I'm not the only one to think this plus he was the one to see Shu breakdown after Hare die.

[n120cky]

Originally Posted by Soji

So I'm not the only one to think this plus he was the one to see Shu breakdown after Hare die.

So did you mean Hare death was Yahiro plan? or he just merely want to get rid of F rank but Hare becomes the collateral damage...?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Sides

Finally caught up... Noooo, not Hare.
Yahiro you fox, he was probably the one who left the ranking papers in the room, to provoke a reaction. Furthermore, the way Inori was glaring at him during the ride, she is probably suspecting that something is wrong with him.

BTW does that Tachikoma look-alike have an own AI or it is controller remotely, because he was the one who drove Shu and Hare to the place.

Originally Posted by Soji

So I'm not the only one to think this plus he was the one to see Shu breakdown after Hare die.

High chance that Yashiro will backstab Shuu during a mission outside the red border, then go and kill Inori, because as far as he is concerned she is the sole cause of this epidemic.