(L) Dragon Ball Super

[azenable]

The manga is definitely more interesting.

Spoiler for manga:

With the explanation of how Zeno wanting to destroy 5 universe and Goku suggestion saving it. and also the REAL Battle of GODS

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

So his new form would be a perfected version of Future Trunks' final form? I wouldn't complain, since that spot is still in my opinion one of the best moments in DBS to the present, with a mortal managing to apparently draw out mortal and divine ki together and then absorb a spirit bomb formed spontaneously from the will of all the life on the planet, unasked, to obtain enough power to destroy the god that killed all gods. Having Goku perfect that would certainly be an interesting move.

As for Frieza's motives in tricking Frost, I'd say it's twofold. First, he saw Frost as someone useful. He's not so lacking in self-awareness that he doesn't realize an evil, indifferent personality like his can be a convenient tool, so he figured Frost would be a good pawn for as long as he lasted. On top of that though, it might have been his own arrogance. Remember how he called Frost an "amateur" before. He probably has some skill in assessing his opponents at this point, and this guy was an insult to his face, so he did the only thing he could do to maintain his own ego: use the chump up then demonstrate his own superiority once his usefulness started to wane.

The preview pretty much debunked that theory. We see the genkidama getting thrown at Jiren in it.

Regarding Frieza, I'd say his main goal was to test what he could get away with in this tournament and gain information. He saw that despite his threats, Beerus didn't even try to intervene even though he was fighting Gohan. This indicated that members of the audience including the GoDs can't interfere, but he needed to make sure of that because you never know what the Zenos might allow. That's when Frost came in. He earned his trust and betrayed him, predicting Frost would be so angry he would want to retaliate. Frost was erased on the spot when he did so and the Zenos were clearly angry, confirming this rule wouldn't change. This is very precious information if he's aiming to be the MVP. There's another invaluable information he gained in this ep, and it's that the Zenos don't mind betrayal, they were in fact rather excited to see two people from the same universe fight each other. Now he knows for sure that when the time comes, he'll be able to eliminate U7 members without facing any repercussions.

I liked how he managed to get around the no killing rule too. Mortally injure the opponent and ring him out immediately so he dies on the stand rather than on the ring. This doesn't benefit him in the least though (losing universes are going to get erased anyway, and U7 has senzus), that's just him being a sadist. I have to say the writers are handling him rather well so far.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by azenable

The manga is definitely more interesting.

Spoiler for manga:

With the explanation of how Zeno wanting to destroy 5 universe and Goku suggestion saving it. and also the REAL Battle of GODS

Just read chapter 28

Spoiler:

I wonder what Toppo's reason for hating Goku will be in the manga, since there is no ambiguity here: 8 universes were about to be erased before Goku showed up, so his tournament of power suggestion is definitely a good thing no matter how you look at it. I wonder if this is what Toriyama had always planned and Toei fucked it up, or if he actually toyed with the idea of making Goku an accidental villain before changing his mind (hence the anime backtracking by having Vados defending him a few episodes later in the anime).

Having the GoDs fight in the exhibition match was a surprise. I thought it was going to be Goku vs Toppo. It turns out Beerus is quite a troublemaker and is hated by the other Universes. It seems Beerus is going to be the reason U7 will be a target in the manga rather than Goku.

It's still only the beginning though, maybe Goku will screw up later.

This chapter also debunks the theory the Grand Priest is a villain manipulating the Zenos behind the scenes, since it clearly showed it was their idea to erase the Universes with low mortal levels.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just read chapter 28

Spoiler:

I wonder what Toppo's reason for hating Goku will be in the manga, since there is no ambiguity here: 8 universes were about to be erased before Goku showed up, so his tournament of power suggestion is definitely a good thing no matter how you look at it. I wonder if this is what Toriyama had always planned and Toei fucked it up, or if he actually toyed with the idea of making Goku an accidental villain before changing his mind (hence the anime backtracking by having Vados defending him a few episodes later in the anime).

Having the GoDs fight in the exhibition match was a surprise. I thought it was going to be Goku vs Toppo. It turns out Beerus is quite a troublemaker and is hated by the other Universes. It seems Beerus is going to be the reason U7 will be a target in the manga rather than Goku.

It's still only the beginning though, maybe Goku will screw up later.

This chapter also debunks the theory the Grand Priest is a villain manipulating the Zenos behind the scenes, since it clearly showed it was their idea to erase the Universes with low mortal levels.

about it:

Spoiler:

if i read correctly in the manga originaly only 2 universeres where considerede evolved enough to be spared which was universe 1 and 12 then zeno decided to allow 2 more be spared in this case universe 7 and another random, and all others 8 remains universes be erased, then goku come and changed it making it's looks likes he "put his own universe in risk" too since now we have 10 universes instead of the original 8 in anime, goku ended puting "even more universers" at stake than before, i could be wrong but that was what i understood, someone can correct me please??

then if i'm right then goku again did worst.

about "being a villian" well goku still at fault about about zamasu and in manga goku is even worst parent/husband than in anime, while mabe "his evil side is less in manga' his garbage parent/husband" goes to a high level in manga then is a 50/50 while he is less guilty to make mes with friends life he still a worst parent/husband to almost don't give a shit at his family.

[rpgman1]

Spoiler for Manga:

Read the latest chapter and it really shows a bigger picture. GoDs blame Beerus for what happened last time they all met. Surprised that Toppo is a candidate for GoD of U11. Makes sense that it was both Kings of All that wanted to wipe out multiverses. U1 has the highest mortal level with U12 in 2nd place. Zamasu said there is a time machine in U12, so that might be coming into play in the distant future.

Beerus the troublemaker. Also explains about the hints from the anime like arm wrestling and naturally predicting your opponent's moves when he still hasn't mastered it yet.

[Idealist 99]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just read chapter 28

[spoilerI wonder if this is what Toriyama had always planned and Toei fucked it up, or if he actually toyed with the idea of making Goku an accidental villain before changing his mind (hence the anime backtracking by having Vados defending him a few episodes later in the anime).
[/spoiler]

Spoiler for spoiler:

Well, what do you expect? Toei hired writers from Pokemon so obviously they fucked thing up.
That explain why Both Goku and DBS started to get so bad.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

about it:

Spoiler:

if i read correctly in the manga originaly only 2 universeres where considerede evolved enough to be spared which was universe 1 and 12 then zeno decided to allow 2 more be spared in this case universe 7 and another random, and all others 8 remains universes be erased, then goku come and changed it making it's looks likes he "put his own universe in risk" too since now we have 10 universes instead of the original 8 in anime, goku ended puting "even more universers" at stake than before, i could be wrong but that was what i understood, someone can correct me please??

then if i'm right then goku again did worst.

about "being a villian" well goku still at fault about about zamasu and in manga goku is even worst parent/husband than in anime, while mabe "his evil side is less in manga' his garbage parent/husband" goes to a high level in manga then is a 50/50 while he is less guilty to make mes with friends life he still a worst parent/husband to almost don't give a shit at his family.

u read wrongly. Zeno mention 4 universe is enough. Zeno did not mention U7 will be spared.
u now stand corrected.
and enough about goku being a bad parent. its ok acceptable in Japan. How many anime u watch where the parents actually appear in the anime being pro-active? most of them have parents conveniently away. Thats how Shonen works. Sailor love the seas and spend most of their time away, it dun mean they dun give a shit about their family DUH

[Hoodspirit]

Who cares if he is a bad father/husband as long as he will be a great master for Caulifla far far away from home?

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Hoodspirit

Who cares if he is a bad father/husband as long as he will be a great master for Caulifla far far away from home?

Goku is going to train with Caulifla -> Goku returns for DBZ final ->Goku had a children with Caulifla for "accident" (like his two sons) -> everyone are scandalized, but no Goku, because he don't understand the seriousness of the situation, the concept of being married and all that.

But, nee, this is not the right anime, only Jojo did a thing like that.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by azenable

u read wrongly. Zeno mention 4 universe is enough. Zeno did not mention U7 will be spared.
u now stand corrected.
and enough about goku being a bad parent. its ok acceptable in Japan. How many anime u watch where the parents actually appear in the anime being pro-active? most of them have parents conveniently away. Thats how Shonen works. Sailor love the seas and spend most of their time away, it dun mean they dun give a shit about their family DUH

yeah but he told which only 2 universes where the ones which "high development and all the others 10 where pretty much the same, then this means which the battle was not just 8(if i'm not wrong in the anime where only 8 universes i could be wrong again) then since 4 are enough and only 2 where spared then this tournament was to decide the 2 remains to complete the 4 not the "extra one in this case the 5 which was originally what they where to be.

I hope next chapter they explain proper the rules like in anime, because the way they explainned so far only 2 universes are currently being spared not 4 as the anime.

about parent:

Spoiler:

one thing is a parent which is aways traveling leaving the childrens alone which is also bad and "not this is ok in japan" the govern is trying desperated to stop it, this is a problem due to the "workaholic and harwork japanese nature, parents thing which "being a good parent" means work like a crazy almost 24h per day 7 days per week and only see childrens or wife "time to time" and give money, this is considered a "big trouble" and one of the reasons the "most young" japaneses are avoiding having families, because they don't want all that "crazy hard work" and neither be crap parents, then while this happen still "not ok" and also as you told in most of the anime cases they are "out" then it make them look less bad than being at home and ignoring the family almost every time, this make them look even worst than if they where aways out of house and for what i hear even in japan goku "actions toward his family are considered bad then your argument is "not valid" he is just a bad parent in the end even for "japaneses standarts because at last the "japaneses bad parents" explanation is because they work hard for they family have the "best of what they can give" not just "for selifish crap ignore kids, well things are more complicated than this.

also another reason for "traveling parents" which some mangakas and or LN writers already told is to make "more easy" to write the situations and give characters more freedom to do whatever they want, having a father and mother make more complicated and ending adding "not needed characters", specially father then they prefer to just make them work on "traveling around" to make things more easy".

also rise kids and a family in japan is really pretty expensive.

[Mad Pierrot]

Just checked some facts about this weekend episode

Spoiler for plot:

Blue Goku is defeated by Jiren and then he tries to use the Genkidama. No details about his new form yet,

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

yeah but he told which only 2 universes where the ones which "high development and all the others 10 where pretty much the same, then this means which the battle was not just 8(if i'm not wrong in the anime where only 8 universes i could be wrong again) then since 4 are enough and only 2 where spared then this tournament was to decide the 2 remains to complete the 4 not the "extra one in this case the 5 which was originally what they where to be.

I hope next chapter they explain proper the rules like in anime, because the way they explainned so far only 2 universes are currently being spared not 4 as the anime.

about parent:

Spoiler:

one thing is a parent which is aways traveling leaving the childrens alone which is also bad and "not this is ok in japan" the govern is trying desperated to stop it, this is a problem due to the "workaholic and harwork japanese nature, parents thing which "being a good parent" means work like a crazy almost 24h per day 7 days per week and only see childrens or wife "time to time" and give money, this is considered a "big trouble" and one of the reasons the "most young" japaneses are avoiding having families, because they don't want all that "crazy hard work" and neither be crap parents, then while this happen still "not ok" and also as you told in most of the anime cases they are "out" then it make them look less bad than being at home and ignoring the family almost every time, this make them look even worst than if they where aways out of house and for what i hear even in japan goku "actions toward his family are considered bad then your argument is "not valid" he is just a bad parent in the end even for "japaneses standarts because at last the "japaneses bad parents" explanation is because they work hard for they family have the "best of what they can give" not just "for selifish crap ignore kids, well things are more complicated than this.

also another reason for "traveling parents" which some mangakas and or LN writers already told is to make "more easy" to write the situations and give characters more freedom to do whatever they want, having a father and mother make more complicated and ending adding "not needed characters", specially father then they prefer to just make them work on "traveling around" to make things more easy".

also rise kids and a family in japan is really pretty expensive.

y guku being parent topic need to be a spoiler? firstly if u follow early part of DBZ and the movies, Goku isn't a bad parent. his earlier image is always with kid govan(4 stars) doing father things. Gohan is now independent so goku dun need to hang up as much anymore. He never really connected with Goten, back when Toriyama was developing Z, Saiyan and Freezer to cell saga, Goku was a good father. only after he died and was wish back to life due to emergency, then this bad parent thing came about. Because at this time, the audience don't need any more story character building, they just wanna see their childhood hero fight. the demand has changed. Ppl in japan dun care about comparing goku to real life. They know its a manga and only power up matters lol.
so stop using IRL view to judge and read Dragonball.

on topic of zeno, it was never mention which would survive. only a total sum was given. also baring in mind 2 things, U7 is stated as one of the lower developed. and Universe come in a pair..

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

Just checked some facts about this weekend episode

Spoiler for plot:

Blue Goku is defeated by Jiren and then he tries to use the Genkidama. No details about his new form yet,

There is no episode this week-end. The special (which is really just episode 109 and 110 airing back to back) will air next week.

It's surprising there is no details on the new form yet, but I expect spoilers will pop up next week.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by azenable

y guku being parent topic need to be a spoiler? firstly if u follow early part of DBZ and the movies, Goku isn't a bad parent. his earlier image is always with kid govan(4 stars) doing father things. Gohan is now independent so goku dun need to hang up as much anymore. He never really connected with Goten, back when Toriyama was developing Z, Saiyan and Freezer to cell saga, Goku was a good father. only after he died and was wish back to life due to emergency, then this bad parent thing came about. Because at this time, the audience don't need any more story character building, they just wanna see their childhood hero fight. the demand has changed. Ppl in japan dun care about comparing goku to real life. They know its a manga and only power up matters lol.
so stop using IRL view to judge and read Dragonball.

on topic of zeno, it was never mention which would survive. only a total sum was given. also baring in mind 2 things, U7 is stated as one of the lower developed. and Universe come in a pair..

the spoiler tag was to "reduce the wall of text.

actually they care, this is so far which he ended having to explain goku "bad parents" behavious, comparing him with his father and overal sayan race behavious which even the manga and movie showed which he is not "that bad", even in the end neither his father don't looked being that bad and vegita goes from a "evil crap guy" to one of the almost "super protective father" and good husband, showing which indeed this is a "goku thing".

if you read the manga and the part which "showed which" goku was not there when chichi was pregnant for the first time and also don't see when he born, already show which things not where "as you are claim" and he really that lovelly and probably he "leaving" his family alone, already started even before Z and goku started to leave chich alone even when she was pregnant for a "long time".

and another note "movies are not considered canon", only the anime and manga and maybe some rare cases when akira accepted when canon, but overal they are not.

when you get all the jokes, in the super manga about how goku was a bad parent and what he did during the Z time even when gohan was a kid, just the fact which he wanted to stay dead over come back to his family (and don't come with the "he wanted to protect them which this already was dismissed by akira, he only asked to stay dead because he found more strong peoples in the afterlife).

if even akira said which he is a bad parent why you are saying which "not?.

just because i dislike how goku is a bad parent, don't means which i want he burn in the hell and bla bla bla it's just a bad trait of him which i like many others dislike and it's "normal.

jesus it's really getting tiresome peoples being unable to say opnion and having peoples crap over it like "his perfect character" can't have faults or the world is ending, omg.

in the end we are talking about a anime and anime characters and are sharing our own opnions and some cases some facts and aslong we are not breaking any rules then is fine if you don't like peoples pointing negative traits of a character just ignore it simple like that because in the end it's not gonna affect neither my neither your life, then peace right.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Kanon

There is no episode this week-end. The special (which is really just episode 109 and 110 airing back to back) will air next week.

It's surprising there is no details on the new form yet, but I expect spoilers will pop up next week.

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

the spoiler tag was to "reduce the wall of text.

actually they care, this is so far which he ended having to explain goku "bad parents" behavious, comparing him with his father and overal sayan race behavious which even the manga and movie showed which he is not "that bad", even in the end neither his father don't looked being that bad and vegita goes from a "evil crap guy" to one of the almost "super protective father" and good husband, showing which indeed this is a "goku thing".

if you read the manga and the part which "showed which" goku was not there when chichi was pregnant for the first time and also don't see when he born, already show which things not where "as you are claim" and he really that lovelly and probably he "leaving" his family alone, already started even before Z and goku started to leave chich alone even when she was pregnant for a "long time".

and another note "movies are not considered canon", only the anime and manga and maybe some rare cases when akira accepted when canon, but overal they are not.

when you get all the jokes, in the super manga about how goku was a bad parent and what he did during the Z time even when gohan was a kid, just the fact which he wanted to stay dead over come back to his family (and don't come with the "he wanted to protect them which this already was dismissed by akira, he only asked to stay dead because he found more strong peoples in the afterlife).

if even akira said which he is a bad parent why you are saying which "not?.

just because i dislike how goku is a bad parent, don't means which i want he burn in the hell and bla bla bla it's just a bad trait of him which i like many others dislike and it's "normal.

jesus it's really getting tiresome peoples being unable to say opnion and having peoples crap over it like "his perfect character" can't have faults or the world is ending, omg.

in the end we are talking about a anime and anime characters and are sharing our own opnions and some cases some facts and aslong we are not breaking any rules then is fine if you don't like peoples pointing negative traits of a character just ignore it simple like that because in the end it's not gonna affect neither my neither your life, then peace right.

I am actually beginning to question the whole "Goku is a Saiyan and Saiyans are amoral sociopaths who are mostly concerned about combat, therefore Goku is a sociopath who only cares about fighting more than anything else" meme. It really makes Goku seem a lot more monstrous than he actually is and it makes seem like he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Granted, I am exaggerating this but this is getting ridiculous and Super didn't really help matters by 'confirming' this aspect of Goku.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

I am actually beginning to question the whole "Goku is a Saiyan and Saiyans are amoral sociopaths who are mostly concerned about combat, therefore Goku is a sociopath who only cares about fighting more than anything else" meme. It really makes Goku seem a lot more monstrous than he actually is and it makes seem like he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Granted, I am exaggerating this but this is getting ridiculous and Super didn't really help matters by 'confirming' this aspect of Goku.

its best not to bring IRL feeling and logic on to a fictional alien race...tat was draw for the purpose of entrainment not education.

but then its wrong to say Goku dun care are anyone but himself as shown it was his love of earth that allow him to be stronger and the flashback to people around him before he manage to throw back the final Beerus energy ball in BoG.
There was once lived many man who are die hard fans of man Utd, decorating their house in Man U Red and wearing their jersey everywhere. sneaking away from his wife to watch matches at the pub with his mate. dose not make him an unloving man to his wife.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by azenable

its best not to bring IRL feeling and logic on to a fictional alien race...tat was draw for the purpose of entrainment not education.

but then its wrong to say Goku dun care are anyone but himself as shown it was his love of earth that allow him to be stronger and the flashback to people around him before he manage to throw back the final Beerus energy ball in BoG.
There was once lived many man who are die hard fans of man Utd, decorating their house in Man U Red and wearing their jersey everywhere. sneaking away from his wife to watch matches at the pub with his mate. dose not make him an unloving man to his wife.

i really doub that said peoples could leave they "homes" for like one year or more just to train or leave then alone when they where pregnant if they really did "love" they family or choose remain far way from them, this show how much "goku love his family, i really doubt any wife of family could still in love or supporting this sort of "husband", leaving sometimes to watch something for few "hours =//= from leave the family behind for months or even years just for selfishiness.

and goku "love for earth" is not strong than his "love for battle" which is what put earth in trouble most of the times, goku passion for battle is much more strong than "any love other love he could have", because this make him take foolish moves just for the sake of have a awesome battle.

another note remember on which character goku is based, which is the chinese moneky god which was "chaotic and trickster by nature" and ended punished by the others gods due to his crap behavious, then is easy to see why goku is like that.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The preview pretty much debunked that theory. We see the genkidama getting thrown at Jiren in it.

A bit late to reply to this, but I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner. If Jiren is a true warrior of "justice", then that wouldn't make him evil. So there's a chance the spirit bomb wouldn't work on him. And if Jiren is capable of holding it and throwing it right back at Goku then...

Well lets just say I still think the spirit bomb power up may still happen after all. lol

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by sayde

A bit late to reply to this, but I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner. If Jiren is a true warrior of "justice", then that wouldn't make him evil. So there's a chance the spirit bomb wouldn't work on him. And if Jiren is capable of catching it and throwing it right back at Goku then...

Well lets just say I still think the spirit bomb power up may still happen after all. lol

I don't think that matters, considering Kid Buu had no problems pushing the spirit bomb back at Goku either.