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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 791 63.74%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 163 13.13%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 95 7.66%
7 out of 10 : Good 67 5.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 18 1.45%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 0.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 0.56%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 0.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 72 5.80%
Voters: 1241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-29, 01:12   Link #2141
Hiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Regarding Lulu's death, it was simply left with enuff ambiguity that zealots could run off screaming to the clouds he's still alive while practical heads accept what they see on-screen...Both factions will undoubtedly display the feelings of surprise or satisfaction when Sunrise uses that inconsequential breadcrumb everyone has been pigeoning for to set-up the SOOPA OVA based on DVD sales...For me, I don't care if he's dead or alive (whatever serves to make the overall effect of the show better is the one I'll choose if we're at gunpoint)...It can only serve as enhancing someones own subjective longing though...For me, the question of whether or not he's truly dead serves as a pothole on the street they paved and how they could have better paved it...

I mean if the simple fact of him concretely being alive or dead changes and underscores the way all the plot elements were handled in R2, WTH are we really arguing over??


So he's dead, that was the $hit! = So he's probably still alive, that was the $hit!
I honestly don't know what to believe. When I first watched I simply thought he had died, but after going through it a few times and reading peoples thoughts, I can't deny that there is a possibility he survived. But I won't be sure of anything until I see a possible OVA or extension of the ending on the DVD.

But for me it's not as simple as "So he's dead, that was the $hit! = So he's probably still alive, that was the $hit! "

This isn't speaking in denial, but something that I wondered about even when I thought he was dead. The promise made to C.C. to return and make her smile, I don't understand how Lelouch death would fulfill that promise. While C.C. showed signs of finding happiness, she still told Kallen that she wanted to end the experience called accumulation. One could guess that the changed and improved world could have motivated her to live on, but there's too little supporting this from what we saw. When Lelouch found out her wish, it seemed to me that it wasn't about her suffering from the circumstances of the world. I'm not sure if the nun was troubled by the worlds circumstances or not, but Code bearers were portrayed as being tired of life rather than troubled by the shape the world was in.
When Lelouch told her that he knew her real wish, I thought it was because she never found true love. She had the Geass to be loved, but never knew if someone loved her for her, or for the Geass.
Another thing that supports this being her wish and not the circumstances of the world is when she asked Lelouch to say her name lovingly, when they were inside the cave.

So if an improved world really was what she now wanted, then I would have liked to see some sign of this in the anime. And to be happy in this world without Lelouch makes it harder for me to understand why she would be happy.

If she really wanted to die, Lelouch could have taken her Code from her. So it seems like for some reason, she decided that she wanted to live.
So the question is why.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:13   Link #2142
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o



Why did zero had to die .

the ending was good too. Sad but good.
Zero didn't die. Lelouch died.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:13   Link #2143
nutype
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Do you honestly not understand how the mind of a director works or is this just more of the usual from you?
he is dead, he got stabbed and got a 5 minute death scene. Obviously this is anime and anything is possible, they can bring him back just like they brought back Mwu from GSD. But for now he is dead. That's the only way to look at this unless you are a wishful fanboy.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:13   Link #2144
Lilslugga
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
lelouche is DEAD for now, until they choose to bring him back later on but for now the default view should be he is dead.
Who are you to decide he's "dead for now" why can't he be ALIVE for now
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:14   Link #2145
nutype
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Originally Posted by Lilslugga View Post
Who are you to decide he's "dead for now" why can't he be ALIVE for now
based on the evidence he is dead. This isnt a my opinion vs yours it's just fact.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:15   Link #2146
NoLongerSane
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I am wondering if there was a similar argument to the fate of Spike when Cowboy Bebop ended. Didn't the director have to give a definate answer because there was some confusion on whether Spike lived or died.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:16   Link #2147
Rising Dragon
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I said it once and I will say it again:

The ending of Code Geass, and the fate of the titular character, is left entirely up to the viewer.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:16   Link #2148
riwoz
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
based on the evidence he is dead. This isnt a my opinion vs yours it's just fact.
Now now, I don't think it has been explicitly stated "Oh, Lelouch is dead." or something along those lines.
The fact that he is dead or not is up to interpretation; saying that it is a fact that he is dead is untrue at this point.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:17   Link #2149
Hiku
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Which is basically what I just said a page ago, but I'm all for people bashing their heads in over this...That's what forums are for, but him living or dying didn't get me up in arms as much as the LIFE of the man who killed him...Awesome new found Zorro skills aside, shouldn't Suzaku's survival be under much more scrutiny than a pseudo ambiguous Lulu's requiem? Do we have to yet again let Sunrise rape us with the cockpit-explosion, but not even close to dying theme once again? Live Geass is fireproof! Can of worms alert! ^o^
Well Kallen's screen flashed "eject" but it seems she was too out of it to do so. One can assume that Suzaku's screen advised him to do the same. And if it did, he would have no choice but to do it due to his Geass command. Or perhaps he jumped out, etc.

As for how he lives on as Zero, that is his punishment and atonement for what he did in the past. Kururugi Suzaku is dead, and instead he lives a new life of serving the people of the world.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:17   Link #2150
Lilslugga
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
based on the evidence he is dead. This isnt a my opinion vs yours it's just fact.
You say it like it really IS fact when it's not it could really go either way. did you ask the director if he's dead NO and i don't believe your the director either so none of us really know
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:18   Link #2151
nutype
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Originally Posted by riwoz View Post
Now now, I don't think it has been explicitly stated "Oh, Lelouch is dead." or something along those lines.
The fact that he is dead or not is up to interpretation; saying that it is a fact that he is dead is untrue at this point.
I guess shirley isnt dead either because it's up to your interpretation too. Same with rolo!

smart!!
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:19   Link #2152
Lilslugga
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
based on the evidence he is dead. This isnt a my opinion vs yours it's just fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutype View Post
I guess shirley isnt dead either because it's up to your interpretation too. Same with rolo!

smart!!
But in this situation it was clearly and purposely left up to the viewer to decide
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:20   Link #2153
riwoz
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
I guess shirley isnt dead either because it's up to your interpretation too. Same with rolo!

smart!!
Look, I'm not here to argue; I'm entitled to my own opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours. I suggest we stop this deviation from the main point of this topic before it becomes a flame war.

edit: flaming war? Gah, I can't type.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:20   Link #2154
MonkeyDude
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Originally Posted by NoLongerSane View Post
I am wondering if there was a similar argument to the fate of Spike when Cowboy Bebop ended. Didn't the director have to give a definate answer because there was some confusion on whether Spike lived or died.
Well just like the ending of Code Geass hinted at Lelouch being alive, the ending of Cowboy Bebop also left a hint that Spike might be dead. Though it was never really explicitly stated by the producers. So regardless of how 'concrete' these hints may be, they will forever remain ambiguous unless the producers state otherwise.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:21   Link #2155
Lilslugga
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Originally Posted by riwoz View Post
Look, I'm not here to argue; I'm entitled to my own opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours. I suggest we stop this until it becomes a flaming war.
No let's continue *grabs flame thrower*
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:22   Link #2156
Hiku
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
I guess shirley isnt dead either because it's up to your interpretation too. Same with rolo!

smart!!
Can you explain how Nunnaly received those visions when she touched Lelouch hand? Without interpretation?
Same for how all of this granted C.C.'s wish.

I first thought that Lelouch died, even when reading some theories on his survival. But now I can't deny the possibility that he is alive, nor that it would make more sense in C.C.'s case of continued life. But I won't be sure either way until it is shown in an OVA or extended ending.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:22   Link #2157
nutype
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Originally Posted by riwoz View Post
Look, I'm not here to argue; I'm entitled to my own opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours. I suggest we stop this until it becomes a flaming war.
again these arent my opinions, evidence showed that he died. If you are claiming he is alive I'd like you to back it up with evidence (however terrible it may be lol). Obviously the evidence points in the direction of him being dead.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:23   Link #2158
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Originally Posted by Lilslugga View Post
But in this situation it was clearly and purposely left up to the viewer to decide
No, it wasn't. Lelouch got stabbed through the heart. He did not survive that unless he had a Code. If he had a Code, it had to be given to him by C.C. since he didn't get one from Charles. We know he didn't get it from Charles because he still had Geass during the episodes following that event. We also know he didn't get a Code from C.C. because she remembers everything at the end, and we know from both V.V. losing his Code and C.C. sealing her code that the loss of the Code results in the loss of all memories after obtaining Geass. Ergo, Lelouch had no Code at the time he was stabbed, and he is dead. There is no wiggle room with any of this. There is no way in the framework of the series that Lelouch could be alive.
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:23   Link #2159
Lilslugga
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
again these arent my opinions, evidence showed that he died. If you are claiming he is alive I'd like you to back it up with evidence (however terrible it may be lol). Obviously the evidence points in the direction of him being dead.
There's plenty of evidence have you not been paying attention?
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Old 2008-09-29, 01:24   Link #2160
Jazzrat
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Do you honestly not understand how the mind of a director works or is this just more of the usual from you?
As Kaioshin implied, Taniguchi probably will never reveal whether Lelouch is alive or not until he gets an offer for continuation of the series.

In any case, he's probably very happy that there's so many speculation about Lelouche's fate right now
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