Knights of sidonia

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by RoboMambo

I've been wondering since the previous episode what to make of the commander. Sending only four pilots without actual experience to just charge the enemy, with no tactics, was such a blunt move I can't help thinking that maybe it wasn't supposed to work (maybe to rekindle the populations sense of risk and urgency). Unless she really is that bad at her job.

You'd say on the general population and personnel, no one has experience fighting a real Gauna. Since the last time they fought one was 100 years ago. The only ones one would say had any experience are the "immortal" VIPs of the ship, if they were indeed immortals and live for more than a hundred years.

As for sending "cannon fodder", I'd say it was deliberate. Let's see possible scenarios of what they'd have sent first?
A) Send a group of inexperienced and useless pilots as cannon fodder. They'd perish very quickly and at the same angering the population because they'd obviously think they had no chance and were sent to die as cannon fodder to test the waters.
B) Send hundreds of Gardes first to overwhelm the Gauna. Would you equip them all with the 27 precious Kabizashis? Maybe less than 1 in 10 would be carrying a spear, the rest would be shooting at the Gauna, but that big number against one target it would pose the risk of friendly fire against those needing to close in to attack with the spears. Also what if things go awry and they all get wiped out or absorbed by the Gauna? You'd lose a lot of resources with that.
C) Send a small number of elites to test the waters. If they beat the Gauna, good. If they get killed, good too since it fulfill the testing as well as send a message to the general populace of the danger and risk they pose.

[RoboMambo]

I'm thinking mostly of how the commander rejected Midorikawa's proposal, that was also backed by her second in command. It had two teams work as baits to allow the main force to attack from behind. It'd risk a few more lives, but the bait doesn't need to get into actual combat, and considering the time constraint, it was worth it.

Also, a 4-1 advantage doesn't seem to mean much against the gauna.

[Byakou]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

C) Send a small number of elites to test the waters. If they beat the Gauna, good. If they get killed, good too since it fulfill the testing as well as send a message to the general populace of the danger and risk they pose.

Except this wasn't testing the waters. This was do or die and because it failed half their ship is now wrecked to pieces and if they hadn't manage to evade they would all be dead now.

"Rationing" the use of the 27 spears does no good if they die. I would have had other backup teams ready to go in case the first one failed, and send more people at the problem to begin with. 27 isn't that low of a number, the way people were talking about it I thought they had like 5 spears or something, 27 is more than enough.

[Anime Online]

Originally Posted by frubam

Simply AMAZED at ep4! I got kinda irritated when Kunato cheated Nagate out of the spear, expecting him to get his ass handed to him by attempting to be the 'hero' and attacking the Gauna, but fortunately, it went down FAR better than I imagined.

Kunato is an arrogant ass, but he seems to carry himself well when he's in the pilot seat. If we look at the situation objectively, it's reasonable for him to retrieve the spear personally. One, he is the squad leader and he carries the ultimate responsibility for the success/failure of the retrieval. Two, he is second-placed in the Gravity Cup, which determines which pilot is best suited to use the Kabizashi.

During the ice mining mission, when Hoshijiro pulled Nagate out of the fight and the Gauna's placenta arms were pursuing them, it was Kunato's missiles that destroyed the arms and saved both of them.

If we're talking about whoever is trying to play hero, that would be Nagate, who defies direct orders every time he's in the pilot seat. People just holds Nagate and Kunato to different standards simply because of how well they like either character.

[IceHism]

The scene where everyone fell from the building because of the thrusters was such a good scene. All the people dying was so good, loved that.
The launch sequence into space and getting into formation was also beautifully presented.

CGI and animation are top class. Not much exposition this episode but very action filled and beautiful visuals. Loved it just like how i loved the other episodes.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

Kunato is an arrogant ass, but he seems to carry himself well when he's in the pilot seat. If we look at the situation objectively, it's reasonable for him to retrieve the spear personally. One, he is the squad leader and he carries the ultimate responsibility for the success/failure of the retrieval. Two, he is second-placed in the Gravity Cup, which determines which pilot is best suited to use the Kabizashi.

Nope, the guy is really an ass and will get people killed for his butt hurt feelings.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

If we're talking about whoever is trying to play hero, that would be Nagate, who defies direct orders every time he's in the pilot seat. People just holds Nagate and Kunato to different standards simply because of how well they like either character.

That's because Nagate was just thrown into this situation with no awareness of social norms or his responsibility as a soldier. Ie, he doesn't realize the importance of following the chain of command, the idea of cohesion of the unit, etc. Nagate is also someone who acts upon his feelings rather than thinking things through beforehand. His actions are also selfless as he's usually defying orders to save someone.

Kunato on the other hand is smart enough to know the consequences of his actions yet he still pretty considers himself above the rules and regulations, and acts only in his own self interest.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

Kunato is an arrogant ass, but he seems to carry himself well when he's in the pilot seat. If we look at the situation objectively, it's reasonable for him to retrieve the spear personally. One, he is the squad leader and he carries the ultimate responsibility for the success/failure of the retrieval. Two, he is second-placed in the Gravity Cup, which determines which pilot is best suited to use the Kabizashi.

If we look at the situation objectively, the most reasonable decision is the closest person to the spear retrieve it so they can return to the base as soon as possible.
It's possible that the fight with the Gauna would have never happened in the first place if Kunato had just let Nagate take it.

There is no need for Kunato to do it personally.
It's not like retrieving the spear requires some awesome pilot skills that only him can do.
Nope, he only wanted to take the credit.

[Anime Online]

Originally Posted by Esclair

That's because Nagate was just thrown into this situation with no awareness of social norms or his responsibility as a soldier. Ie, he doesn't realize the importance of following the chain of command, the idea of cohesion of the unit, etc. Nagate is also someone who acts upon his feelings rather than thinking things through beforehand. His actions are also selfless as he's usually defying orders to save someone.

Kunato on the other hand is smart enough to know the consequences of his actions yet he still pretty considers himself above the rules and regulations, and acts only in his own self interest.

There is no evidence to suggest that Nagate doesn't understand the importance of following orders. In fact, when Kunato told him to link up with the rest of the squad while he retrieves the Kabizashi, Nagate obeyed without hesitation despite his initial interest in retrieving the Kabizashi. Nagate is simply doing whatever he feels like. In this, he is no different from Momose, whose reckless go-it-alone stunt jeopardized the Gauna subjugation squad. It's only because Nagate is the main character that he can pretty much do everything on his own. That's the one thing I don't like about the anime: that Nagate is just such a special John Wayne character.

Kunato is professional when he's flying. He doesn't abuse his position as the squad leader nor give Nagate a hard time, though he is obviously jealous of all the special attention Nagate receives. He simply catches flak for whatever he does because people dislike him.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

He doesn't abuse his position as the squad leader

He ordered Nagate to go back so that he could take the credit for himself.
If that's not "abuse" then I don't know what is.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

There is no evidence to suggest that Nagate doesn't understand the importance of following orders. In fact, when Kunato told him to link up with the rest of the squad while he retrieves the Kabizashi, Nagate obeyed without hesitation despite his initial interest in retrieving the Kabizashi. Nagate is simply doing whatever he feels like. In this, he is no different from Momose, whose reckless go-it-alone stunt jeopardized the Gauna subjugation squad. It's only because Nagate is the main character that he can pretty much do everything on his own. That's the one thing I don't like about the anime: that Nagate is just such a special John Wayne character.

There's a difference between the thought of following orders vs the instinct of following orders. There's a lot of mental conditioning that goes into getting soldiers to follow commands, especially when all hell breaks loose. Nagate hasn't really been a gardes pilot for that long and he didn't have to pass through any of the tests that the other trainees did (which was one of the reasons why Amano disliked him) so he's pretty much unconditioned.

Also, it seems like discipline is generally pretty loose (with Momose and Akai's relationship allowed and all) since they had 100 years of peace. Nobody was shown to be punished for disobeying orders yet either. Yuhata hacked into military secrets that was above her clearance and she didn't get punished or even reprimanded. Kunato also hurt Izana and beat up Nagate after the Gravity festival, but there wasn't any punishment given either.

[Anh_Minh]

There's also the fact that Nagate spent nearly every waking moment of his childhood practicing to fight Gauna. Not to follow orders - to fight Gauna.

So, yeah, he sees a Gauna, he fights it. He hears an order, he's suddenly reminded other people exist.

[JKL]

Originally Posted by monir

From a psychological standpoint the elite four was not prepared to handle the situation. How was a romantic relationship went unnoticed or allowed to foster in a group of individual who should have known and accepted the kind of fate awaited them when they were chosen as pilots? The elite four lacked a cold, dispassionate assessment of the situation which lead to saving the girlfriend, then girlfriend goes to retrieve boyfriend, and then the break-down as follows. This group was not mentally prepared to sacrifice anything including their loved ones to achieve the end goal which was to save the entire population of humanity from the impending doom of Gauna.

That made it the worst episode so far. Leeroy Jenkins. Ugh.

Fortunately the latest episode was able to turn that around (no pun intended).

[Clarste]

There's a difference between following orders because you're timid and following orders because you're disciplined. Tanikaze is the former, not the latter. He's still not really used to being around people, so following orders instead of objecting is the easy way out of unwanted social interaction. However, he's not disciplined so if there's something he actually cares about, like his friends getting hurt, he'll follow his emotions.

Originally Posted by Byakou

"Rationing" the use of the 27 spears does no good if they die. I would have had other backup teams ready to go in case the first one failed, and send more people at the problem to begin with. 27 isn't that low of a number, the way people were talking about it I thought they had like 5 spears or something, 27 is more than enough.

They've been running from the Guana for a thousand years, and maybe plan to to it for a thousand more. How many spears do you think they started with? If it's a matter of attrition than maybe 1 spear is worth more than all the lives they lost in the acceleration. You can always grow more people. It's unclear whether they can ever get more kabizashi. Maybe you disagree, but this is the reasoning of an immortal charged with protecting the ship.

[Renegade334]

[sinp]
But for now, yes, he's a power-hungry, ambitious arse who's not content with just being the heir of the Kunato Industries (who remain particularly influential because they're the sole manufacturer of the current Gardes model).

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Yuhata hacked into military secrets that was above her clearance and she didn't get punished or even reprimanded. Kunato also hurt Izana and beat up Nagate after the Gravity festival, but there wasn't any punishment given either.

From her conversation with her brother, it seems technically she didn't hack into military secrets. Although the command hid most info pertaining to the actual combat. Looks like they didn't hide the repair and ammo inventory logs and might be publicly available, and from that information she inferred what happened in that fight. Which is a reason why Sei is looking at her as his replacement as XO and strategyst.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Judging by the diagram, the ship is the long metal thing. The rock's there for... mineral resources, I guess?

I for some reason thought they are living in the rock while the cylinder is mostly consist of water aka the sea.

But anyway, the large body of water can be used in so many way including to generate thrust and/or weapon.

Btw, some of the folks can't contain themselves with the manga spoiler. Kindly report em' when anyone spots them so they can be quickly deleted. This show will provide a very good platform for discussion if the course of that discussion follows along with what gets covered in the anime. Please don't get ahead or leave others behind this fascinating discussion. Thanks!

[jhpace1]

Nagate did the right thing - getting the Kabizashi spear and dealing with the Guana, destroying it the same way as he did in the simulator. Obeying orders at this time means allowing teammates to die - which Nagate is too young to allow on his watch. But we're up against the laws of physics here. If Nagate can't make it back to Sidonia with his fighter-craft, all his heroics are for naught.

I also don't like how Nagate, after the Guana was dead, dropped the spear. After all that time to retrieve it! Keep the spear and go after the girl at the same time, Nagate. Even with one arm gone to the Guana attack, you can keep the spear.

And the Guana have a new attack- a Higgs particle cannon. Not good. Did anyone notice how the Guana is keeping the first victim's face? Is it predator mimicry, evolution, or an attempt at communication?

[DMurphy]

Finally, finally caught up with this series.

You know, they only have 27 spears, so I can get rationing them. That said, why not cut that number down to 26 and devote one spear to study? If you can figure out how to make them, you can mass produce more: Even on the Sidonia that's potentially possible.

I have a suspicion that the Gauna are trying to communicate, but they seem to really have it in for Nagate, since that Gauna changed course just to attack the retrieval team. Either that, or they're smart enough to recognise that the spears can harm them.

The Elite Four were throwing up so many death flags that I'm surprised the funeral director wasn't matching flowers to their features before the mission even started. I did like that they were all named after colours, though: They're like a doomed Sentai team.

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by jhpace1

Nagate did the right thing - getting the Kabizashi spear and dealing with the Guana, destroying it the same way as he did in the simulator. Obeying orders at this time means allowing teammates to die - which Nagate is too young to allow on his watch. But we're up against the laws of physics here. If Nagate can't make it back to Sidonia with his fighter-craft, all his heroics are for naught.

I also don't like how Nagate, after the Guana was dead, dropped the spear. After all that time to retrieve it! Keep the spear and go after the girl at the same time, Nagate. Even with one arm gone to the Guana attack, you can keep the spear.

And the Guana have a new attack- a Higgs particle cannon. Not good. Did anyone notice how the Guana is keeping the first victim's face? Is it predator mimicry, evolution, or an attempt at communication?

If Nagate follows order, he'll just be a sitting duck for the ensuing guana slaughter, along with Kunato and Honoka's units. Worse, with long range attack, the guana will be able to snipe sidonia or the defense gardes.

The way I see it, Nagate drops the spear so that it would not be lost to Sidonia, in case he doesn't manage to come back. A rational choice.

I wonder if Guana really develops a new attack. As for now, we don't know where the higgs particle fuel comes from, but I am guessing the guana is not capable of producing the fuel but only using fuel tank from broken gardes from Akai's team.