Bush

[Joe Dalton]

Well allot of people say he is a traitor, a war monger, an idiot, a monkey and many more.

Now seeing as I dont live in the US I cant really form an opinion on this since I am not up 2 date on all his policies...

What I am hoping for in the replies are arguements why you consider him 2 be either a bad or a good president.
... So simply replying the guy is a monkey and he is stupid and and and... I hope will be deleted quickly.
Also give examples... if you wish 2 drag in iraq and afghanistan by all means... but please keep ideas such as pacifism out of it... Although its a nice sentiment its something that cant be argued since its just your opinion that no matter what happens killing is wrong.

Well here is your chance everyone.. prove what you say instead of just screaming it louder then the other guys.

[mantidor]

I don't live in th US either, but I disagree with the way he managed the attacks to the WTC and subsequently the war on Irak. For me it seems his attack to Afganistan was done more to please the people in the US than actually to put an end to terrorism, and then he took this as an oportunity to attack Irak for the oil. I mean, thats a secret screamed out loud, but he made it more evident when no weapons of mass destruction were found. EDITED

[Dopeskills]

We've already had the never ending religious debates. Do we also need to have political ones too?

I don't see this thread as being anything other than flamebait.

[mantidor]

thats probably true, but I would like to know how Bush is seen in the US, the only information I get here is from the news and thats not a reliable source, besides if somenone supports him I would love to know why. If this became a flame war is up to us, the religion thread did develop very well, with almost no flame and a little humor, this could be like that.

[Lexander]

It's going to be a Bush bashing thread until an overpatriotic American tells everyone to go $%^& themselves ... then everyone concetrates their flames on that guy, cause he represents Bush indirectly.

[Dopeskills]

Ok, reasons that people might like Bush:

~ The recession began before he was in office and the economy didn't start to pick up again until his tax cuts began to be implemented.

~ Lots of people are paranoid about terrorism, and to many people he seems to be the the type of person who takes charge and does something about it.

~ A lot of people don't like the Democratic party

~ Others agree with his stance on domestic issues

~ For anyone who studies economics, The Republican economic strategy makes sense and the Democratic economic plan does not. (I can explain this if you would like)

Currently Americans are split 50/50 on Bush/Rebulicans

And I'm sure we all know the reasons for not liking Bush:

~ War

~ Environment

~ Acting like a democrat and spending way too much money

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Dopeskills

Ok, reasons that people might like Bush:

~ The recession began before he was in office and the economy didn't start to pick up again until his tax cuts began to be implemented.

~ Lots of people are paranoid about terrorism, and to many people he seems be the the type of person who takes charge and does something about.

~ A lot of people don't like the Democratic party

~ Others agree with his stance on domestic issues

~ For anyone who studies economics, The Republican economic strategy makes sense and the Democratic economic plan does not. (I can explain this if you would like)

Currently Americans are split 50/50 on Bush/Rebulicans

And I'm sure we all know the reasons for not liking Bush:

~ War

~ Environment

~ Acting like a democrat and spending way too much money

You also forgot the fact that he is a liar : there was no massive destruction weapons in Irak and the war in itself could have been for a good purpose but he did it in order to get his hands on the petroleum...
See terrorism nowadays? The war he started with Irak did wake a lot of terrorists.
By the way, did he really did the Vietnam War?
Rumors say he didn't, that might be a point to dislike him too.
Well anyway, just face it up, even though he did break OTAN rules he didn't care and even though we found out that the war he started had no other purpose but for petrolium, he's still saying he did it for the good of the Irak, he's just making people die for no purpose :/ Just see what's happening to the soldiers in Irak...

[Dopeskills]

Yes, we know the reasons for not liking him. The Iraq War was BS.

But I also think that people are exaggerating when they say it was simply done for oil. All Iraq has is a bunch of damaged oil fields. And there were provisions set up before the war to make sure that there oil wouldn't be taken. You could also argue that the only reason France/Russia were against the war was because they wanted to protect their oil investments.

I think the main reason he started the war was because he wanted to finish what his father started. Everyone knew he was full of crap about weapons of mass distruction, but didn't really care because they'd like to see Saddam removed.

[Joe Dalton]

Originally Posted by mantidor

I don't live in th US either, but I disagree with the way he managed the attacks to the WTC and subsequently the war on Irak. For me it seems his attack to Afganistan was done more to please the people in the US than actually to put an end to terrorism, and then he took this as an oportunity to attack Irak for the oil. I mean, thats a secret screamed out loud, but he made it more evident when no weapons of mass destruction were found. Besides he's an ASSHOLE! (I had to say that, sorry!)

Pls I asked 2 give arguements for your points of view... You present your points of view as arguments.
Saying he did it all for the oil (in the case of iraq) is not an argument since there is no proof of that.
Also do not go and spit out dumb insults and apoligize for it since its wirtten text so its a simple matter of backspace.
Pls for future responses do not go around throwing out mindless slogans used in anti bush campaigns like he did it all for the oil unless you have any proof of what you say.
Also pls keep in mind its about bush in general not just the wars... so also show why you think of him the way you do by showing us his policies and their flaws or strongpoints.

[7thMethuselah]

It's easy to blame everything on Bush but people should not forget that even though he is the one called the president, that doesn't mean he's in charge. There are alot of pressure groups and powerfull people who can make or break Bush if they want to. George Bush isn't completely free to do as he pleases, his hands are partly tied.

Personally I don't agree on everything Bush did over the last four year but that accounts for all american presidents. I following politics in my own country rather closely and I must say 90 % of them are complete idiots and screw-ups. I see no reason why US would be different.

Good things about Bush : war on terrorism : I support his war against terrorism but don't agree on the way he does it. I think if he would force a breakthrough in the Isreal-palestine problem alot of the Moslim hatred towards US might calm down. But he can't do it (again because of a powerful Jewish lobby). Right now he's hunting down the terrorists but not trying to solve the cause of terrorism

Bad things about Bush : Completely neglecting the environment. While I'm far from a "green boy" myself everyone should realise by now that the environment is an issue to be dealt with. I'm not saying break down all factories and let's go back to the stone age but investing in more environment friendly technologies should be promoted. Off course a powerfull oil lobby doesn't want that, cleaner energy would mean less oil thus less money...

Basically I can only blame Bush 1 thing : like most politicians he has no long term plans and is more concerned about short term effects than finding a real solution.

PS I'm not a US citizen so my view on Bush is distorted from what I read in our newspapers and see on our tv, so if I made any serious errors let me know

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

Pls I asked 2 give arguements for your points of view... You present your points of view as arguments.
Saying he did it all for the oil (in the case of iraq) is not an argument since there is no proof of that.
Also do not go and spit out dumb insults and apoligize for it since its wirtten text so its a simple matter of backspace.
Pls for future responses do not go around throwing out mindless slogans used in anti bush campaigns like he did it all for the oil unless you have any proof of what you say.
Also pls keep in mind its about bush in general not just the wars... so also show why you think of him the way you do by showing us his policies and their flaws or strongpoints.

Sorry, I supposed I didn't made it clear that it was a biased opinion because I don't live in the US and the information I get here through the news is biased too... wait I DID made it clear, I take back the apology.

anyway I took back my insult statement, and is not a simple matter of backspace, as I stated I had to say it

[Lexander]

The amazing thing about Iraq is that they show footage of regular Iraqs in T-Shirts, Khakis and Sandals firing AK-47s on the streets and they say those are the remaining of Sadam's army ...

Sadam is out of power ... what reason does his 'gaurd' have to fight...

The people fighting on the streets are nothing more than regular Iraqi citizens ... and the sad thing is that some idot in the Mississipi boonies actually believes that these people are some terrorist scum.

[sheanight]

Originally Posted by Lexander

The amazing thing about Iraq is that they show footage of regular Iraqs in T-Shirts, Khakis and Sandals firing AK-47s on the streets and they say those are the remaining of Sadam's army ...

Sadam is out of power ... what reason does his 'gaurd' have to fight...

The people fighting on the streets are nothing more than regular Iraqi citizens ... and the sad thing is that some idot in the Mississipi boonies actually believes that these people are some terrorist scum.

( i will not get into an A-typical forums flame my arse, their arse session)

.... just out of curiousity, does anyone think that the "Iraqis" (Iraqi citizens 'possibly') on the ground with assault rifles, nades, and other left overs from their army would seek terrorism as a means of fighting back if they could get through the check points and onto US soil?

[Joe Dalton]

Originally Posted by sheanight

( i will not get into an A-typical forums flame my arse, their arse session)

.... just out of curiousity, does anyone think that the "Iraqis" (Iraqi citizens 'possibly') on the ground with assault rifles, nades, and other left overs from their army would seek terrorism as a means of fighting back if they could get through the check points and onto US soil?

Thanks for not going into a flame discusion... But if you would post your opinion on bush his policies that would be cool.

And as far as your question goes... no... I also dont think that anyone regrets having sadam gone... however when Stalin lost his power and people started saying what they wanted about him the rusians couldnt/wouldnt believe it since for such a long time they only heard how good he was 2 them... propaganda is a powerfull tool if no other source of information is available for the people.

[Sid_Burn]

Well bush already visited our country... Is he really like that???

[Sukato]

Personally, I dont mind G.W. Bush himself (I live in the US). However, I think the whole commitee is horrible. I think that without his "advisors", Bush probably wouldn't have done most of the war on terrorism. From a political viewpoint, he is a very controlled person. However, the only way to stop that entire group of people is to vote them out. In the end, it really wasn't Bush's fault that he ended up being a bad president, but the people he chose to work with. Ran with the wrong crowd, as they say.

There is a football (american football) player named Tillman who played professional football. After the Sept. 11th attacks, he turned down a multi-million dollar contract to join the U.S. Rangers (I think thats what he joined), and go fight against terrorism. He died about a week ago fighting, not terrorists, but Iraqi citizens who were defending their priest.

Tillman is a badass, he is a true hero for his sacrifice. It is only a shame that he never got to take down the terrorist group that destroyed the World Trade Center.

Oh well, we only have to put up with Bush for another half a year .

[Bun-kun]

Bush isn't the problem it's the way american thinks that the problem. Give me a break war on terrorism is like a war on jealous there we be no winner. Americans should be more worldly thinkers (instead of what dress I'm going to wear for the prom) . If we didn't use other countries for resource maybe this wouldn't happen. If we stop buying clothes made by children this wouldn't happen. If we stop supporting a nation who steals another nations land (Israel) this wouldn't happen. Americans like to believe that we stand for freedom peace and human rights. Where are the human rights in Palestine, did you know that if your not jewish you have no rights in your own land. While Israelis have millions of dollar supporting them from the U.S the palestinians have none so what method do you think they will use, they are desperate. I'm not trying to justify their actions because killing is always wrong, but trying to help explain the situation. Palestians are the modern day native american, we were wrong then, why are we doing this again is what I want to know. But nowadays these modern indians can fight back pretty well. So attacking an Islamic country is not the answer I don't know what he was thinking of when he did, but understanding our mistakes and fixing it is. And why start a war in another country when we can't even hold our own in Afganistan

[Sugetsu]

Would you guys re-elect Bush if you could?

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

Would you guys re-elect Bush if you could?

I'm not old enough to vote. But even if I was... would I really care to vote? o.o

[Dopeskills]

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

Bush isn't the problem it's the way american thinks that the problem. Give me a break war on terrorism is like a war on jealous there we be no winner. Americans should be more worldly thinkers (instead of what dress I'm going to wear for the prom) . If we didn't use other countries for resource maybe this wouldn't happen. If we stop buying clothes made by children this wouldn't happen. If we stop supporting a nation who steals another nations land (Israel) this wouldn't happen. Americans like to believe that we stand for freedom peace and human rights. Where are the human rights in Palestine, did you know that if your not jewish you have no rights in your own land. While Israelis have millions of dollar supporting them from the U.S the palestinians have none so what method do you think they will use, they are desperate. I'm not trying to justify their actions because killing is always wrong, but trying to help explain the situation. Palestians are the modern day native american, we were wrong then, why are we doing this again is what I want to know. But nowadays these modern indians can fight back pretty well. So attacking an Islamic country is not the answer I don't know what he was thinking of when he did, but understanding our mistakes and fixing it is. And why start a war in another country when we can't even hold our own in Afganistan

According to Newsweek Palestians have a lot more human rights than people in most middle eastern countries. Even with the occupation they get treated a lot better than most arab governments treat their own people.