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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 37 | |||
10: Amazing... | 5 | 17.86% | |
9 out of 10: Excellent... | 7 | 25.00% | |
8 out of 10: Very Good... | 9 | 32.14% | |
7 out of 10: Good... | 3 | 10.71% | |
6 out of 10: Average... | 1 | 3.57% | |
5 out of 10: Below Average... | 1 | 3.57% | |
4 out of 10: Poor... | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10: Bad... | 1 | 3.57% | |
2 out of 10: Very Bad... | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10: Torturous... | 1 | 3.57% | |
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-06-28, 13:19 | Link #121 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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Unbelievable.
Ezelcant is responsible for the Vagans' suffering? The guy lost his own son, and is dying. How can he be selfish and out of touch with his people? He is obviously not fighting for his own personal ambitions or future...What is he fighting for if not to help Vagans in their plight? Quote:
All some of you seem to care about is the goddamn colonies that he blew up...seriously get over that already. Besides, we could argue that those people's blood is in the hands of the cowardly federation officers who would rather save their hides than risk their lives to save civilians like that guy from Gen1. Ezelcant gave them the chance to save themselves, a chance that Grodek took, but others may not have... and LOL @ Ezelcant eating lavish food. All I saw was SOUP and Pizza, there weren't 5 different kinds of meats, or any fruits, vegetables, and such on the table. That's hardly a lavish meal. It was properly presented though, but it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. The food they serve in the Diva is a hell of a lot more varied and lavish and what Ezelcant eas eating..
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2012-06-28, 14:29 | Link #122 | ||||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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He is currently the Vagan's leader, he could've ended the suffering by atleast accepting the peace offers or hell, have a peace talk with Flit who tried to clear the Federation of corrupt politicians, instead of starting a 60-70+ year long war. Quote:
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2012-06-28, 15:22 | Link #123 | ||||
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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2012-06-28, 15:53 | Link #124 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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In the proceeding decades Vegans managed to hide themselves on Earth. Ezelcant always had the capacity to bring them back to Earth. Look at the way Vegans talk about Earth in religious wonder. Ezelcant credited in saying their souls return to Earth. Earth is a utopia. Ezelcant has a cult personality with a cult around him. The point of the war was never to bring them back to Earth. They could have done that a long time ago. What Ezelcant wants is for Earthers to experience the same suffering as Vegans did. To see whether Earthers are worthy to survive whereas Vegans are not. The guy has a god complex. The way he sees Kio as a replacement for his son shows he is not mentally stable. |
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2012-06-28, 16:55 | Link #125 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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No. He found the EXA-DB while investigating Federation corruption; that in no way implies they found it in the Earth Sphere. The EXA-DB asteroid could be anywhere between Earth and Mars, and given what happened to the Bisidian Pirates in Memories of Sid, chances are the EXA-DB asteroid doesn't have a fixed position and likely moves around.
As for bringing people back to Earth, the Vagans seem to have an incredibly sizeable population, you can't bring them back bit by bit secretly. Too many people would die in the meantime and it'd probably create strife between the "lucky ones" who get chosen to go to Earth and the people still stuck waiting their turn. Ideally you'd need to bring them to Earth in mass--and the Federation would most likely see that as an invasion. Combine that with all the paranoia between the Vagans and Earthers, and the desensitization of the Vagans, and you'd have a war. Having the EXA-DB fragment just means the Vagans would have a chance at winning whatever war that gets started, because war at this point was likely inevitable.
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2012-06-28, 17:15 | Link #126 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Ezelcant could've just contacted the media and said Mars Sucks we're returning home. Heck he had blackmail material for the prime minister in the 2nd chapter. Ezelcant actions is not one of a rational person. Though I could just point out the writers placed themselves in a corner. Three chapters of making Vegans utter monsters and this ep "Here a sympathetic loli". Armed to the teeth with no food for the civilians. Does this remind you of anything? |
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2012-06-28, 17:48 | Link #127 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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You don't just go to another person's territory and say "here I am, our country sucks so we came here. deal with it. The US has been the most open minded country in the world with respect to immigration, it used to be that you got on a boat, came here and they took you in. Now you need to go through a process and if you just show up you're an illegal immigrant which the government and most of the people disapprove of... Things in the real world aren't so easy and merry.
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2012-06-28, 17:58 | Link #128 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Let's get a couple things straight here since some people are ignoring them.
1. The Federation top command abandoned the expedition and written them off as they all died. 2. Some survived and created what would be known as Vagan. 3. Sometime down the road Ezcelant came across some data from the EXA and started creating the Vagan MS which we have seen is like an F-22 Fighter fighting against a Biplane. 4. Ezcelant also started infilitrating the Federation at the same time and according to Flit he was able to blackmail the Prime Minister whose family was involved in writing off the Vagans in the first place. This allowed him to infilitrate more deeply into the Federation which we have seen is quite extensive. 5. The Vagans were also able to deploy a strong army in a hidden base and so forth. 6. The Vagans are able to deploy a massive weapon of mass destruction right in front of one of Earth's most powerful defenses. 7. The Vagans can hide an army of giant robots in major cities and next to bases. So I really don't see how it is impossible for the Vagans to come back in large numbers. They are already capable of doing it with massive military forces and weapons of mass destruction and have extensive infilitration capabilities. A reasonable and logical way of handling it would've been to decapitate the Federation early on, throwing it into chaos, and then take over from the inside rather than just declaring war. That's part of the problem I see with the Vagan. With Ezcelant, it's not about just revenge apparently it's about testing the Earthlings who the majority had no idea what had happened to the Vagans in the first place. I don't see how a kid living in Washington for example could be critized as a jackass and evil person who deserves to be tested in a life and death situation by a kid who grew up in Iraq and lived through the various wars there when he's probably not even aware of it in the first place. And for a group of people that are dying, they awfully have a lot of patience and manpower. It's just weird.... Quote:
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2012-06-28, 18:39 | Link #129 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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AGE is poorly written, that's a fact we gotta live with.
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2012-06-28, 18:56 | Link #130 |
Rawrrr!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 40
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It never cease to amaze me how some equate infiltrating at most thousands of highly trained military personel, prepared to hide, with bringing back to Earth a civilian population, one that would hope to live in the open, and would number in the tens if not hundred millions.
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2012-06-28, 19:02 | Link #131 |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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And it never ceases to amaze me how some completely ignore the fact that one does not simply hide 20m tall giant robots next to military bases, inside major cities, or even bring a mass weapons of destruction right next to one of the Federation's most powerful bases.
Not to mention they had the Prime Minister and other Federation officers in their pockets as well. If they can do that over a hundred years why they can't bring in refugees in cold sleep is beyond me. There is no way Ezcelant is simply just warring against the Federation and NOT have developed something to bring them over. |
2012-06-28, 19:21 | Link #132 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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because millions > a few hundred? You can easily forge identities and hide a few hundred soldiers, but you can't hide millions of people and the giant transport ships needed to transfer them over. Do you know how big of a logistical nightmare it would be to transport the people to earth, then find them housing, jobs, and identities? Besides, people would catch on to massive rapid influx of strange people that suddenly just popped out out of nowhere...
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2012-06-28, 20:40 | Link #133 |
Rawrrr!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 40
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Fact one: the Nation of Vagan: it has been repeatedly exposed in the show that Vagans see themselves as a Nation, defined by being abandoned to die on Mars by the Federation, with its own particular culture and mindset. As a consequence, to them Earthners are Aliens, and they have no desire to covertly reintegrate the Earth Sphere.
Fact two: the population of Vagan: it numbers in millions, the equivalent of several if not many colonies of the Earth Sphere. Notice that each Vagan colony would be much more densely populated from the way they have been depicted. Fact three: large covert operations are limited to space, as shown by the whole Downes operation, infiltrating the atmosphere in numbers is a pretty big deal. Fact four: Even if we assume the whole thing was logistically possible to do in secrecy, to move a fixed, conservatively sized Vagan population over the course of 200 years (which is absolutely ridiculous by the way), would imply a flow of about 1000 people per day. So you'd have an equivalent of totally unknow strangers showing up at the colonies spaceports every day... Fact five: Vagan has superior military technology, and Might is Right, thus the Vagan's leader cannot make light of his people suffering and reasonably ask them to become Mexican illegal immigrants instead of The Chosen People subjugating the Promised Land.
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2012-06-28, 20:58 | Link #134 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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This isn't about the survival of Vegans anymore. It is about playing god. Does Earthers deserve to live whereas why Vegans do not. |
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2012-06-29, 22:14 | Link #136 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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And regardless of all this and that by the rest of the arguments that means that the Vagans have no chance of winning this war because they'll never ever be able to transport all of their people back to Earth. Yes Ezcelant is testing the Earthlings but I cannot see the Vagans not putting any effort in preparing for the time when they'd be able to move their people back to Earth. If they are for that matter. If it turns out that all of their efforts have been focused on military development...well then how the hell do they expect to take everybody home with them to begin with? The war is a lost cause. |
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2012-06-30, 11:39 | Link #137 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2012-06-30, 15:03 | Link #138 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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I definitely agree they should have won the war early on when their technological advantage was at it's peak, before Flit even built the Gundam. The problem with that is that if they did it that way, there'd be no story to tell. It's the writers' fault ultimately.
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2012-06-30, 22:31 | Link #139 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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What Zeheart said about X-Rounders being a step back in evolution coming from Ezelcant is pretty telling. From the looks of it in one angle Ezelcant is a Social Darwinist. He likely believes conflict promotes progress. Because it is a truth among Vegans... The strong survive. Look at the Earth Sphere. It has technologically regressed in a century. With good reason. Warfare was approaching a Lensman arms race. Ezelcant is trying to stop what he believes to be stagnation... By promoting war. As such pitting Euba and Zalam against each other with old MS tech makes sense. |
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weekly episode discussion |
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