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View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 22.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 23.73% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 37.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 15.25% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.69% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-04, 15:25 | Link #63 | |||||||||
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Even if you're right about Rita's primary motivation, it takes nothing away from the sincerity of Rita's arguments. In fact, it only adds to them. "Do you have any idea, Mashiro, how much I'd love to have the talents that you have? Do you have any idea how it effects the rest of us aspiring painters to see you so casually throw away your painting mastery in order to pursue manga?" If you're right, this is likely what Rita is thinking/feeling. It makes her words more sincere and intense, not less. In fact, it's very similar to certain ideas that the anime Hyouka explored very effectively and at length. Quote:
A person who only does what s/he wants to do, and never considers the hopes or feelings of another, is a very selfish and self-centered individual, imo. That's certainly not a philosophy that I would want to hang my hat on. Quote:
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It's not absurd to feel anger at someone or some company for refusing to do something that you know that they're great at, that you would love to see more of, and that you know is profitable for them (so it's not like you're expecting them to commit financial suicide, which would indeed be uncalled for and absurd). Quote:
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If you make a choice that you know will piss off a lot of people, including many of the people close to you, then you shouldn't insist on those people supporting you when it comes to this particular choice. If you do insist on that, then it's you that's dictating to other people how they should live their lives, and not them to you. Now, to be fair to Mashiro, I can understand why she said "stupid Sorata" in this episode. This is how I think Mashiro sees it: "I supported you, Sorata, in pursuing your dream to become a game developer, so why are you now not supporting me in my dream to write manga? That's not fair, stupid Sorata." So I sympathize with where Mashiro is coming from in her anger towards Sorata. However, I can still totally see where Sorata is coming from as well. It's (so far) a very good character drama conflict precisely because both sides are acting generally reasonably and in understandable ways. Quote:
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2012-12-04, 15:42 | Link #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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It's irrational to push someone to do something they clearly don't want just because they are good at it and you feel they are "wasting" their potential. That's not up to others to decide and there's no rule saying they have to simply do what comes easy to them.
As for friends and family supporting an endeavor, I should have clarified that. It's not about insisting or dictating that they should support you. To me, it's just natural (or ideal) that the people close to you would want to see you happy and support the path you choose. Clearly that's not always the case. |
2012-12-04, 15:51 | Link #65 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 54
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Since no one is exploring the tangent I offered, forgive me for repeating it.
1. When someone does not utilize the best talents they have, inevitably, when they grow older, they get stricken with grief at knowing they may have wasted good part of their life when they could have been doing great things. While Mashiro's short term happiness may lie with concentrating on manga, if you value her long term happiness, you should encourage her split time between manga and fine art drawing so she could retain her artistic drawing skills. Contrary to popular notion, much of art involves techniques that needs to be constantly honed, thus it will be hard for Mashiro to return to fine arts if she gives up on it for several years. Just look at how Michael Jordan looked during first few games when he returned to Basketball. 2. Her working on manga can help broaden her vision and world as an artist. Rita should be made aware of possibility that being a mangaka could help Mashiro grow and experience things she cannot experience if she returns to art studios in London. Mashiro also needs to be made aware that letting herself work on fine art drawing on whatever spare time she can find, can help her continue to grow as mangaka, because the soul of artist can enrich her manga in diverse ways.
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2012-12-04, 15:57 | Link #66 | |
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But like what Sumeragi said, we're discussing the ungeneral here. We're discussing the exceptional case. We're not talking about someone that's merely "good" at something. We're talking world-class talent here (that's definitely the impression I'm getting anyway). I mean, it can't be that hard to see how it's painful to see someone that's absolutely brilliant in a particular field choose instead to be average-to-pretty good in another field. Imagine if KyoAni decided tomorrow that they were going to turn into a video game company. Their first two video games were Ok, not bad, but they're not exactly Mass Effect 2 or Modern Warfare. A couple years down the line, I can understand anime fans thinking "Man, do I ever miss the old KyoAni. Instead of making average video games they used to make absolutely kickass anime!" Edit: I basically agree with what wontaek wrote above. Painting vs. manga doesn't necessarily have to be an either or.
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2012-12-04, 16:12 | Link #68 |
Porcupine
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norway
Age: 65
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Should we assume that Shiina has simply been given the gift of painting by Zevs? All things say that she has been practicing relentlessly year after year, with obsession most people cannot even imagine. This is how she came about her greatness. If she does the same with manga, would she not be able to touch the lives of millions through her art as a mangaka? Do we not think that passion will once again bring greatness? Talent is overrated. Passion is underrated.
Sorata no baka! |
2012-12-04, 16:23 | Link #69 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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Now there's usually two people who think an exceptional person is wasting their talents on irrelevant endeavors.
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I agree that talent is overrated in most cases. Sometimes people (including myself) use it as an excuse to not try harder because we are lazy, intimidated, or scared of failing. The lesson to learn is that you probably will fail and you probably do suck at whatever you're doing at first lol. That's no reason to stop going...like the little engine that could. Last edited by sikvod00; 2012-12-04 at 16:35. |
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2012-12-04, 16:46 | Link #70 | |
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And Sorata seems to think that Shiina's paintings are on an entirely different level than Shiina's manga. If not, then I'd expect him to say "Shiina's paintings are awesome, but so is her manga. So why does it matter which one she does?" Also, Shiina is getting a lot of help on her manga from Sorata. I don't think it comes as naturally to her as painting does. Could that change over time? Maybe, but I have my doubts. I would generally put passion over talent until we get to the very top of the talent pyramid. That's where talent really is an overwhelming factor - When you get to the Jordans, the Gretzkys, the Ruths, the Picassos, the Shakespeares. These people just "get" their particular field of talent in this breathtaking way that gives them a massive leg-up on the competition. I think this anime is arguing that Shiina is on that level when it comes to painting... but she's not when it comes to manga.
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2012-12-04, 17:02 | Link #71 | ||
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Location: Austria
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Also, your paraphrasis of what I said in Rita's words is pretty spot on. That's exactly what I think she'd say. But my point isn't about adequate expression of what you're feeling (which is important). It's more about where you direct your energy. Should Rita direct her energy towards creating paintings she enjoys creating, or towards convincing Mashiro to return to painting? Now, there's no reason she can't do both, but the resentment towards Mashiro's talent is, I think, an indication that sees the energy-allocation as an either/or, with only one clear answer. And that's a narrowing of her point-of-view that helps neither herself nor Mashiro. Put this in the context of the Japanese school system with public grade rankings and competition on the forefront, while excentric standing-out is frowned upon, and then look at Sakurasou, where excentricism is the norm, and competition not so much (although it's still a haunting presence; cf. Jin). And finally look at how in Rita's mind "come back to painting" attaches to "come back to England". Is England some sort of painting Mecca? For what it's worth, I don't think that Rita is wrong to try and pursuade Mashiro to go back to painting, but the way she goes about isn't perfect, and I think it's because she doesn't face her own issues. If she wants to paint she should paint. If you structure art like a competition and only the most popular bother producing stuff, I'm pretty sure my own tast would fall by the wayside. By quitting painting she does to the people who'd enjoy her painting exactly what she thinks Mashiro does to the artworld at large. There's an unintentional hypocricy there, and she needs to resolve that for her own good. ETA: Quote:
"So you don't care if I go away? Sorata no Baka!" Last edited by Dawnstorm; 2012-12-04 at 17:15. |
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2012-12-04, 17:14 | Link #72 | ||||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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The idea that one has no obligation what so ever to anyone is a fairy tale, because at some point in your life, you owe someone something important whether you think so or not. Quote:
2. And yet here we are on the internet in a space full of dissatisfied customers- I don't know if you're being a hypocrite or this is truly your honest words- But I'll bear this in mind on and I hope I never catch you complaining about something you don't like, or you telling people what you think should have been done... 3. Different tune same thing. You still would want more from the same person... At least up to a point where you don't care. 4. Same as number 2. I'll keep an eye out from now on. Quote:
SOME?! ...I'm willing to bet that if Hanazawa Kana decided to stop being a Seiyuu and instead become a Nun and shaved her head, half the people here would jump out the window and slit their throats on the way down. While the other half flies to Japan to stop her. Quote:
Of course I would have a problem- but I can see two sides of the argument while you're blindly holding on to your precious thoughts of freedom.
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-12-04 at 17:25. |
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2012-12-04, 17:33 | Link #73 | ||||||||
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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There is nothing wrong with it as long it doesn't affect other people in a negative way. An i mean extreme things like killing them or destroy their lifes. Your father hopes for you to be a doctor but your dream is to become a lawer. Should you not be allowed to live your dream just because your father wanted something different fo you? Is your life not your own? Your father demands from you to marry girl A but you love girl B. Should you not be allowed to be with the one you love just because your father thinks girl A suits you better? Who has to life with the girl you marry in the first place, your father or you? Is your life not your own? The same again about my actres example. Shiina is a film actres and has talent for it, but her desire is to become an author and so she stoppes with acting and starts with writing. Is it right to demand from her to throw away her life, her dream, just because some fans want that? Would you throw away your dream just because some people got butthurt that you are following your dream? Would you jump from a bridge just becaue some people expect that from you and get disapointed if you don't do that? I think the answer to those questions is clear. Quote:
If you want something, do everything you can for it. If it is not possible for you to achieve that, accept it, instead on forcing other people to do that for you. Quote:
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I can't tolerated people who try to push there hopes and expection on other people. It's like with this mothers and those beauty contest where they force their little childreen just because they themselve where never capable to do that. Quote:
And I read many comments that were not peaceful. Quote:
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And I was not talking about opinions here because it's clear that everyone is entitled to have one. What I was talking about was the "should not be allowed", which basically means people have no right to decide to do with their lifes what they want and other people have the right to decide that for them. And that is just absurd and goes against human rights and I will never accept or tolerate that. The whole point here is this. My life is my own and I decide how i live my life and not someone else. If i want to be an actor and please people with that, it's ok because I myself wanted that. If i want to be a singer and please people with that, it's ok because I myself wanted that. If I want to be basketball player and please people with that, it's ok because I myself wanted that. If I want to retire from the things I said above and do something else, it's ok because it is my life and I myself wanted that. |
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2012-12-04, 17:59 | Link #74 | |
Porcupine
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norway
Age: 65
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I may be totally off, having only watched the anime, but it seems to me that its message is that people who have an overwhelming desire to create something will eventually grow up to it. But the cost is to become "Sakurasou", freaks who live on the very edge of the normal world. Sorata is only now beginning on that path, but the others have been on it for quite a while, and Shiina perhaps since she was a toddler, having never had a normal life. |
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2012-12-04, 18:27 | Link #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Someone posted what Rita's motivation might be, here's my guess:
Mashiro's talent break down Rita's confident in what she liked doing - painting, so she wanted to bring Mashiro back to painting to made her give up what she enjoy doing - mangaka. This emotion might happen subconsciously, as Rita's surface emotion is just to make sure Mashiro's talent not going to waste. I speculate in later episode Mashiro will insist on being a mangaka, even she might not have the talent for it; which trigger Rita to reconsider her own possibility to pursue painting, even without the talent as good as Mashiro. My 2 cents, cheers. |
2012-12-04, 20:19 | Link #78 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Two points related to the ongoing debate:
1. I think it's important to consider Sorata's reaction in light of what we know of his character: he's someone who feels a great sense of inferiority over his lack of innate talent. So, his gut-reaction comment is rooted primarily in envy: "I can only wish I had half the talent you had, and if I did you can bet that I'd feel happy and fulfilled". But this is a complete lie. People with great talent are often tormented with overwhelming feelings of inadequacy, and struggle with finding motivation to do even the things they need to do (even using their talents!). Having talent doesn't make it easier to find fulfilment in life by any means. 2. I think it's important to remember the way Mashiro was basically pushed into this world from a young age because of her talent, without having been given the time to come to terms with her own ability and limitations. Her talent isn't just a matter of putting paint to canvas, but also depends a great deal on creativity and passion. Unless she can discover that for herself, and unless it comes from the inside (and not just external pressure), she won't really put her heart into her work. She can coast on her talent for a while, but doing this takes an emotional drain that accumulates over time. Unless she finds fulfilment in what she does, she'll only be a shell of a person. So what Mashiro needs isn't an ultimatum, it's just time and support. She can always go back to the world of painting when she's ready for it, but that doesn't have to be today. Creative people need outlets to explore their creativity in unconventional ways to help scratch itches, but everything is connected, and sometimes scratching that itch will bring their passion back in their main area of expertise. I fully expect the answer to this arc will be that Mashiro isn't closing the door forever, but there are things she wants to do right now that are important to her, and people will have to respect that if they really care about her. And that degree of selfishness, at least in my view, is not unreasonable. People aren't machines.
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2012-12-04, 20:42 | Link #80 | |
sleepyhead
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With regard to your second point, not all "hopes" and "dreams" are positives, try as you might to make them so by surrounding them in your sentence with negatives. In addition, most "hopes" and "dreams" are not of any sort of tangible nature so as to be trashed by others as easily as you would imply; unless you're an extreme extrovert, or social zelot, in which case all I can say is "taste your own medicine". The episode itself isn't as gray, Rita is clearly in the wrong. Is it because she wants Mashiro to go back to painting, and Mashiro currently doesn't feel like it? No. Different play on events could have yielded a "positive" impression. The wrong is she wants her to go to England, and now; as if either have any relation to her going back to painting.
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