2013-01-25, 06:24 | Link #5661 | |||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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They don't need to directly highlight people's opinion about the deal because, if this was like the US president taking away the right to vote, the averse reaction would be noticeable. The fact that they could have a Royal Marriage peacefully is sufficient to show that Orb's ideals are nowhere near anything like democracy. Quote:
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Orb will not invade other nations. Orb will not allow other nations to invade it. Orb will not interfere in the conflicts of other nations. Helping the AF build the Gundams violates the third claim. Reducing Orb's fighting capability in the middle of an enemy invasion violates the second claim. If the Kusanagi is still considered part of Orb, then interfering in the battles between the EA and the PLANTs also violates the third claim. |
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2013-01-25, 06:36 | Link #5662 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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The core ideal is neutrality. Those rules are just methods to maintain that.
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2013-01-25, 06:45 | Link #5663 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Maybe I didn’t word it correctly. What I meant is terms of surrender, just like how Japan surrendered to USA after Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Uzumi and other higher-up will sent a stronger message by dying during the fight instead of signing the terms of surrender (or whatever you call it).
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And it’s ORB fault that those people lost their lives due to the attack of the oppressing nation? They already did their best to protect them while fighting enemies that tramples on their dignity and rights as a nation. Like I said, when your nation are being invaded by other hostile nation who disregarded your rights, it becomes the matter of every citizens of the oppressed country, not just the government/military. The government/military may try their best to protect the civilians who can't participate in the battle, but when lives are lost, it not the fault of the said government/military.
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2013-01-25, 07:05 | Link #5664 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Yet the parties responsible were not brought to justice by the government.
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2013-01-25, 07:39 | Link #5665 | |||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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By dropping your dignity and kissing the ass of the oppressor? I doubt any proper sovereign country will do that easily without a fight. Even a poor nation will stand up against it even in front of a more powerful military force (remember Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc?), let alone first-world country like ORB.
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2013-01-25, 07:46 | Link #5666 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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And, again once you've beaten your enemy, there is no surrender. Your enemy is defeated already. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 08:04 | Link #5667 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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He was obvious to the "VIEWER" because of the smiles he gives when Cagalli isn't looking or the things he does or thinks that Cagalli just doesn't know about. Cagalli isn't a mind reader, she see's Yuna as a fiend but she was lead to believe that Yuna isn't speaking out against her because he wants to and that things will be better once he's in a position that he doesn't have to pander to the hardliners. Sure Cagalli suspected and knew that Yuna had another motivation that he was hiding and that she was being manipulated but she felt that it was fine if it benefited ORB in the end. That and she didn't know what else she could do since you just didn't have the power or experience to oppose the party Yuna was a part of without causing chaos in ORB. It's only one, many more would follow. A Royal Wedding is a big thing for many countries and distracts the people for quite some time. They easily could have them appear "in love" in public to keep the people distracted. Even more so if Cagalli ends up pregnant and they later have a child. |
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2013-01-25, 08:11 | Link #5668 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Your opinion is as valid as mine. Forming an Alliance to help exterminate an entire race? With that said race also a large part of ORB's citizens? The treaty might not blatantly stated it, but Uzumi already saw through the Federation's true objective (lead by Azrail). Well, I don’t know about you, but I personally think it’s not an option. As for ORB, once again, the alliance simply doesn’t go well with their ideals. Also, the “Alliance” is just in-name-only imo, the truth is: ORB is ordered to drop their neutrality and freedom as a sovereign nation and reduces them into Federation’s loyal dog. It’s George W. Bush’s “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” crap all over again, only with more sinister Nazi-like goal this time.
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2013-01-25, 08:27 | Link #5669 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Spoiler for monster:
Spoiler for Destined Fate:
Episode 21 Well the first part was certainly awkward but it was tolerable. The second part was interesting as Shinn meets Stellar for the first time. Looks like Shinn is really setting himself up as another Kamille, but that's a bad way to go imo. Shinn is a decent character in his own right but Kamille was a much better character so for the show to try and make direct comparisons would be a bad move. It just further highlights the gap between the two shows and how Seed Destiny needs to differentiate itself more. Episode 22 You better have a damn good justification for that, Kira. Episode 23 Oh that's right I forgot: Kira = God... Geez Kira is there anything you can't do? Also, lol at them introducing Heine just to kill him off. That's just a cheap trick so that they don't have to kill off a more prominent character. Episode 24 & 25 The meeting with Kira and Athrun was reasonably well done but Athrun never really addressed the problem of the attempted assassination of Lacus Clyne. He just said that it being the Chairman is jumping to conclusions. Whilst that may be true, Kira and Lacus have to consider all options so they're perfectly right not to trust the Chairman just yet. Their lives are on the line after all. Athrun should've promised that the assassination would be investigated. Episode 28 I don't like the way they've made Kira so much stronger than Athrun (I thought they were equals?) but that was still a very good episode. Brutality and tragedy all round.
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Last edited by Haak; 2013-01-25 at 13:19. |
2013-01-25, 15:05 | Link #5671 | ||||||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Remember, the reason given for the war in Destiny was the Junius 7 drop, which also affected Orb. If neither you nor Obelisk is willing to give that leeway for Orb in Destiny, then the other choice is for you guys to accept that these are truly not so fundamental to Orb such that the government may change them without having any significant dissension from the people. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 16:13 | Link #5672 | |||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Which makes it even worse for Uzumi since he didn’t go down while fighting, but going down like a convict being executed. Like I said, it won’t send a strong message to the world and will only give Azrail a chance to ridicule him in front of a camera for all the world to see before executing him.
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*sigh* okay then. In the case of the Seirans, the issue is more complex since LOGOS already release the the photos of Zala faction dropping Junius 7 as a propaganda tool to drive the public to label PLANT as a murderous terrorrist. Things remains, Cagalli knows the actual truth. She was there during the battle and can easily ask Athrun for details. So, she knows that the deal to help AF wage war against PLANT due to false accusation is so very wrong. The whole thing already violate ORB’s ideals anyway which ORB higher-ups should have the guts to say no to Federation and fight for it. Cagalli should’ve announce what she knows in Junius 7 drop to help clearing PLANTS’s name in eyes of the Earth nations and securing the neutrality of her country.
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2013-01-25, 16:32 | Link #5673 | |||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2013-01-25, 16:55 | Link #5674 | |||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Less impact dude, less impact.
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Also, preventing outright take-over by kissing the oppressor's ass is still humiliating for a sovereign nation to me. Outright take-over itself has never been a right for any country or alliance to do. A simple fact that she knows: Minerva, the official military force of PLANT, was fighting those rebels and trying stop Junius 7, plus with her (a leader of a nation) actually there being a witness is enough to back her argument. If you think otherwise, then suit yourself.
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2013-01-25, 17:08 | Link #5675 | |||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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His country is in trouble and you're worried about impact?
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Then again, if these ideals weren't that important, then his choice makes more sense. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 17:32 | Link #5676 | ||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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You twisted the meaning of my words. He already knows that his country has lost due to being invaded by a more powerful country. The last thing he could do is to sent strong message to the world that ORB leaders fought till the end of their lives, not being executed by Federation while kneeling down. How many times do I have to say this? Uzumi even talked about leaving strong message to the world in those episodes.
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She doesn’t need ZAFT witness to know that Minerva was fighting the faction that dropped Junius 7.
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2013-01-25, 17:43 | Link #5677 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Unless, of course, they weren't that important. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 18:35 | Link #5678 | |||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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It’s not only about what she thinks. It’s about what she already knows (that Minerva was fighting those who dropped Junius 7).
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2013-01-25, 23:06 | Link #5680 | |||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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The way I see it, he let himself die simply as punishment for failing Orb. Quote:
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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