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MisterJB · 2009-09-29, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by zato_1one

But what she said to Rafaella made me sad. All she could think of was to claim the land. :

Aaaaand...?

It was not only reasonable but also rationale. Her land had just been conquered by Isley. However,Raphaela came to Luciela on her time of need.
The most intelligent decision would be to take advantage of Raphaela's power and eliminate Isley while he was weak. That way, not only would Luciela regain the South but she would also leave the Northern's throne vacant and ready for the taking.
Exactly what we should expect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

i gues i just have an uber uber dirty mind... you don't wanna know what i was seeing, picturing, imagining in those lines between her and isley, seriously, its even gross to me!

I would actually be very interested in hearing a full-detailed explanation of such a topic.

BTW, WTF. ?!?! I dissapear for a miserable day and you people start posting girl magazines?

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 11:03

Quote:

luciela verbally, clearly was only concerned about:

1. her own life (especially panicking as rafaela was crushing the life out of her)
2. finishing off isley
3. expanding her territory / conquest

you can say that she might have also verbally really meant her words that she cared about rafaela and missed her, unfortunately there's nothing to prove this or disprove it, which makes it a fallacious claim......

Umm, actually there is, the fact she's crying is probably a big clue.

I think you're thinking of it wrong; the fact that she said things that were strange doesn't prove she was "lying" in anyway, she just said things we didn't like. It doesn't excuse the fact her emotions were genuine.

~~Tsuyoshi~~ · 2009-09-29, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Umm, actually there is, the fact she's crying is probably a big clue.

I think you're thinking of it wrong; the fact that she said things that were strange doesn't prove she was "lying" in anyway, she just said things we didn't like. It doesn't excuse the fact her emotions were genuine.

Well, awakening does change a Claymore's character after all. Before, Claymores are usually dedicated to their work in exterminating Yoma and do nothing more than fight. They hardly feel hunger, they only fight Yoma and generally obey the mandates of the organization. There are exceptions to this of course, but that's generally what happens. Overall, Claymores aren't given room for selfish desires. That's the way both their body and mind works.

On awakening, their demonic powers, instincts and desires are released. They feel hunger, the desire to overpower their prey and rule over their own territory. In that respect, their are not dissimilar to any predatory animal, a lion for instance. Some retain human memory, some don't. The memory of Raffaella was so strong in Luciella that she retained that much. Luciella was defeated by another rival leader of his own pack and forced to leave her territory, but wanted to reclaim it because it was her home, her shelter, her place to feed. We may not have liked it, and neither did Raffaella for that matter, but we had to expect that much from Luciella.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 11:28

Quote:

On awakening, their demonic powers, instincts and desires are released. They feel hunger, the desire to overpower their prey and rule over their own territory. In that respect, their are not dissimilar to any predatory animal, a lion for instance. Some retain human memory, some don't. The memory of Raffaella was so strong in Luciella that she retained that much. Luciella was defeated by another rival leader of his own pack and forced to leave her territory, but wanted to reclaim it because it was her home, her shelter, her place to feed. We may not have liked it, and neither did Raffaella for that matter, but we had to expect that much from Luciella

Regardless, I think you're pushing it a little too far if you're comparing her to a meager Yoma, she's much more then that.

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

err.. i didn't do a good job of explaining my view on it very well... let me try again....

my understanding:

1. rafaela did kill luciela and than tried to bring her right back to life.

the only reason i can think of...

by killing luciela, she undoes her awakening. so if she were to than bring luciela back to life, she'd be like she was before the accident so long ago.

2. rafaela tried to bring the dead back to life! That's some power, this supports that there might be more power to rafaela than revealed/shown...

so what exactly did she do and what happened....

rafaela crushes luciela, killing her.

rafaela uses a new technique never seen elsewhere in the entire manga, LIFE FORCE TRANSFER.

rafaela sacrifices her own life pouring it into luciela's body in order to revive luciela back to life.

unfortunately, rafaela messes up again, and it goes horrible wrong. rafaela's life force does indeed go into luciela's body, but luciela is still dead and rafaela is still alive but in luciela's body. however, rafala's body didn't fully merge with luciela, stopping half way, which is probably what caused the entire technique to fail.

so the end result is rafaela's mind-soul-life force inside luciela's body which is half merged with rafaela's lifeless-soulless body.

3. riful finds it and takes it back with her.

4. clare receives rafaela's mind (maybe), knowledge, memories, and experiences.

5. the completely lifeless-soulless merged bodies of rafaela+luciela now become the destroyer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"returning it [luciela's yoki] too her which she carried, explaining why she never used her yoki, pushing back her awakening." -shiek

ahhh, this explains a lot...... hmm... not sure if my understanding is correct now....

I'm on your side on this.
Rafaela wanted to undo the mistake that she made. It did not work out the way she thought it would.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 11:36

Quote:

'm on your side on this.
Rafaela wanted to undo the mistake that she made. It did not work out the way she thought it would.

Awakened, it makes no sense at all 0_0

Yagi isn't the type to pull some random LIFE FORCE TRANSFER thing, it's silly and reminds me of other cliched manga.

At least with Cyclone's theory, it's consistent.

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Awakened, it makes no sense at all 0_0

Yagi isn't the type to pull some random LIFE FORCE TRANSFER thing, it's silly and reminds me of other cliched manga.

At least with Cyclone's theory, it's consistent.

Like I said it did not work out the way Rafaela thought it would.

1) The manga clearly shows Rafaela giving Lusila the death hug then we see Lusila's lifeless hand.

2) We have Clare with her Frankenstein ability to play Mr. potato head with body parts.

3) Rafaela was a master at soul-link. We don't know how it works, but the general idea is that the two Claymore involved share the same mind or one Claymore gives up her mind to the other for safe keeping.

4) We have Ruble saying that Rafaela is hoding on to Lusila's soul (possible reason for not releasing her yoki).

5) We know what happens when you mix a Ab with a human (ZACS).

Put it all together and you get Racillia.
Rafaela's goal in life was to correct her mistake. She kept her sister's soul/mind for years hopping to give it back to her sister. She finally met her sister in a vulnerable state. She kills her sister. She then tries to transfer her sister's soul/mind she has been carrying all this years back into her sister. In the transfer process something went horribly wrong. Rafaela's body fused with her sister.

There is noting strange about this (in my opinion).
1) If you think of yoma as a parasite.
2) If body parts can be attached.
3) If mind/soul can be transfered (soul-link).

In conclusion. Rafaela tried to revive her sister, but it did not work out. Noting new, just an attempt of something new.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

Like I said it did not work out the way Rafaela thought it would.

1) The manga clearly shows Rafaela giving Lusila the death hug then we see Lusila's lifeless hand.

2) We have Clare with her Frankenstein ability to play Mr. potato head with body parts.

3) Rafaela was a master at soul-link. We don't know how it works, but the general idea is that the two Claymore involved share the same mind or one Claymore gives up her mind to the other for safe keeping.

4) We have Ruble saying that Rafaela is hoding on to Lusila's soul (possible reason for not releasing her yoki).

5) We know what happens when you mix a Ab with a human (ZACS).

Put it all together and you get Racillia.
Rafaela's goal in life was to correct her mistake. She kept her sister's soul/mind for years hopping to give it back to her sister. She finally met her sister in a venerable state. She kills her sister. She then tries to transfer her sister's soul/mind she has been carrying all this years back into her sister. In the transfer process something went horribly wrong. Rafaela's body fused with her sister.

There is noting strange about this (in my opinion).
1) If you think of yoma as a parasite.
2) If body parts can be attached.
3) If mind/soul can be transfered (soul-link).

In conclusion. Rafaela tried to revive her sister, but it did not work out. Noting new, just an attempt of something new.

..........Okay, now you're mixing up Cyclone's with Hedgy's.

Why would, question number 1, Rafaela want to kill her sister to save her? That part doesn't make any sense.

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiek927

..........Okay, now you're mixing up Cyclone's with Hedgy's.

Why would, question number 1, Rafaela want to kill her sister to save her? That part doesn't make any sense.

It was an attempt so save her.
If we agree that Lusila's was an AO, then we agree that its impossible for her to be human again. Rafaela had many years to think about how she could fix her mistake. she came up with soul-transfer (similar to soul-link, but reverse).

The key thing to remember is that it did not work out.

All great ideas are not great ideas, it only seems great the the one that think of the idea. Rafaela had an idea she wanted to try out to fix her mistake, in the end it did not work out, no one is perfect. (just a theory, no evidence avaleble at this time

)

irvinethearcher · 2009-09-29, 12:47

@shiek927
rafaella told clare that there is another personality which will awaken and destroy the from clare's memories reconstructed personality of herself anyway. If we now assume that this is allways the case when a claymore awakens and that this awakened personality is a mixture from human traits and yoma traits from the flesh the claymore was hybridized with, we can say that rafaella held the real soul of her sister and tried to kill the twisted awakened yoma - luciella personality who still cared in some way for her sister(tears) but still seem to care more about power and land and island-domination. Like awakened described, after the death of that personality she tried to infuse luciella's real pesonality. To be able to do that she had first to kill the twisted personality.
Probably it is not possible to infuse a human soul into a completely awakened body.
In theresa's case there could be some difference because
1.Theresa never awakened at all
2.Clare hold far more memories of her than she held for rafaella but was still able to reconstruct her pesonality from the short moment their spirits met when she scaned riful's hideout
3.clare and theresa are already fused together

My theorie is that rafaella gave her wisdom clare for a purpose so that she could achieve what rafaella was unable to do.
there is a possibility that this has to do with the huge mistake clare is making.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

It was an attempt so save her.
If we agree that Lusila's was an AO, then we agree that its impossible for her to be human again. Rafaela had many years to think about how she could fix her mistake. she came up with soul-transfer (similar to soul-link, but reverse).

The key thing to remember is that it did not work out.

All great ideas are not great ideas, it only seems great the the one that think of the idea. Rafaela had an idea she wanted to try out to fix her mistake, in the end it did not work out, no one is perfect. (just a theory, no evidence avaleble at this time

)

Well, whatever.

Cyclone is alot better on this subject then I am, hopefully he'll come and point where he wrote down everything. I like what he said the best.

I don't see how agreeing that she's an AO makes it impossible to convert her into a human again, that's the confusing part. Why is killing her necessary?

~~Tsuyoshi~~ · 2009-09-29, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Well, whatever.

Cyclone is alot better on this subject then I am, hopefully he'll come and point where he wrote down everything. I like what he said the best.

I don't see how agreeing that she's an AO makes it impossible to convert her into a human again, that's the confusing part. Why is killing her necessary?

That's probably the conclusion someone like Raffaella came to in the end, considering she's a Claymore. Claymores have been conditioned to think that once you awaken, you are no longer human, and you cannot be turned back into one. That's why Raki was the only person who could possibly have stopped Priscilla from eating humans altogether. He even managed to make Isley cut down on his meals too, although that part was unintentional. The point is, someone who'se conditioned to think of an AO as a monster cannot turn anyone back to humanity, especially when they're not exactly human themselves. A human being however, can do such a thing. I believe that's why Raffaella didn't even try to turn her sister back. On top of that, Luciella tried to persuade Raffaella to awaken, which added to the reasons she had to kill her sister.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

That's probably the conclusion someone like Raffaella came to in the end, considering she's a Claymore. Claymores have been conditioned to think that once you awaken, you are no longer human, and you cannot be turned back into one. That's why Raki was the only person who could possibly have stopped Priscilla from eating humans altogether. He even managed to make Isley cut down on his meals too, although that part was unintentional. The point is, someone who'se conditioned to think of an AO as a monster cannot turn anyone back to humanity, especially when they're not exactly human themselves. A human being however, can do such a thing. I believe that's why Raffaella didn't even try to turn her sister back. On top of that, Luciella tried to persuade Raffaella to awaken, which added to the reasons she had to kill her sister.

*sigh

While I agree with the conditioning part, I just can't believe it the rest. Rafaela killing her sister....by breaking her back(What?

)....

Gonna see if I can find Cyclone's posts on this matter.

romari · 2009-09-29, 16:00

"I love you sister...thats why i'm gonna kill you" ok...i wonder what she would do if she hated her

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

Like I said it did not work out the way Rafaela thought it would.

1) The manga clearly shows Rafaela giving Lusila the death hug then we see Lusila's lifeless hand.

2) We have Clare with her Frankenstein ability to play Mr. potato head with body parts.

3) Rafaela was a master at soul-link. We don't know how it works, but the general idea is that the two Claymore involved share the same mind or one Claymore gives up her mind to the other for safe keeping.

4) We have Ruble saying that Rafaela is hoding on to Lusila's soul (possible reason for not releasing her yoki).

5) We know what happens when you mix a Ab with a human (ZACS).

Put it all together and you get Racillia.
Rafaela's goal in life was to correct her mistake. She kept her sister's soul/mind for years hopping to give it back to her sister. She finally met her sister in a vulnerable state. She kills her sister. She then tries to transfer her sister's soul/mind she has been carrying all this years back into her sister. In the transfer process something went horribly wrong. Rafaela's body fused with her sister.

There is noting strange about this (in my opinion).
1) If you think of yoma as a parasite.
2) If body parts can be attached.
3) If mind/soul can be transfered (soul-link).

In conclusion. Rafaela tried to revive her sister, but it did not work out. Noting new, just an attempt of something new.

Revision:

No one knows what Rafaela was thinking when she met her sister. All the evidence point to her planning to kill her sister (sword in hand approaching, breaking her sister's back).

Maybe she did not intend to bring her sister back to life, maybe she just wanted to wither away with her sister (die with her sister). What ever reason she had, it does not matter, she ended up fusing with her sister. As a result she kept her dead sisters body alive.

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by romari

"I love you sister...thats why i'm gonna kill you" ok...i wonder what she would do if she hated her

If your sister had lost her mind and started killing innocent people. Will you stop loving her knowing that she might eventually be killed???

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 16:31

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=144
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=285
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=496
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=503

If she wanted to kill her sister, why didn't she just use her sword?

Awakened · 2009-09-29, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiek927

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=144
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=285
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=496
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=503

If she wanted to kill her sister, why didn't she just use her sword?

easy, because she dropped it. Have a heart. Could just jut go up to your sister and start cutting way?

Lusilla's word push Rafaela over the hill. She was hesitating, but after Lusilla talk about councuring the world Rafaela knew what she had to do.

Edit:
Cyclone has a good argument, but he does not explain why Lusilla's lifeless had fell to the side (its in the manga, no theory required). Whats the point of bringing a weakened person close to death if you are trying to manipulate them? They are already weak and vulnerable.

Shiek927 · 2009-09-29, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

easy, because she dropped it. Have a heart. Could just jut go up to your sister and start cutting way?

Lusilla's word push Rafaela over the hill. She was hesitating, but after Lusilla talk about councuring the world Rafaela knew what she had to do.

Have a heart?

I'm the only one who thinks Rafaela didn't kill her sister and never planned too, and you're asking ME that?

Looking back though, you and Cyclone seem to have similar ideas

, so their is at least a concensus more or less on what happened
that moment. Only part that gets me is the whole"Luciella dying and Rafaela putting her humanity in her". My lighter-colored way of thinking is just that she simply beat back the Awakened side of her and attempted to replace it with her humanity she's been keeping inside of her.

WOOHOOO!!!

My 2000th Post!!!

HegemonKhan · 2009-09-29, 16:43

this is a really old and wrong crazy idea i had from misreading the manga, but it kinda matches up with your recent posts here, so i thought u might be interested in this....

so here it is (remember that this is now obsolete, it is what i once thought up in the past, and from mis-reading the manga:

i got some crazy theories, that are probably way off, but here they are:

at the same time that the Organization has been using the island continent as their lab, so has Rubel (the DragonKin Spy), right under the Organization's "noses".

The Organization's experiments:

1. Yoma (the normal-original-pure beast ones)
2. Claymores/Silver-Eyed Witches
3. Awakened Ones
4. Abyss Feeders. These were made to help cover for Alicia+Beth's weaknesses. They keep the opponent busy, and weaken or wear down the opponent, so that Beth isn't able to be targetted, while Alicia delivers the final-finishing killing attack-blow-assault on the opponent. Quite good tactics by the Organization to make up for the weaknesses of Alicia+Beth.
5. 100% obedient soulless slaves (Alicia+Beth). They’re controllable awakened ones, but with glaring weaknesses:

A. Beth
B. needing identical twins
C. that also must have very strong yoma powers
D. one of them must have a strong enough mind and yoki to control the other fully awakened identical sister).

So they can't make a legion-army of them, thank goodness! The Organization needs to DIE, for all the lives they have toyed with and destroyed without any care what-so-ever.

Rubel's "experiments" (and/or what he knows about and is allied-cooperating with):

1. "Half Awakens". clare, miria, helen, deneve, and jean-deceased. It appears that the Organization actually still does not know about "half awakening". These "Half Awakened" Claymores have the potential to be "Alicia's" without any of the weaknesses (like needed no "beths" for example). It's good that the Organization seems to be completely unaware of this form-being called "Half Awakens".

2. Rafaela (+luciela). (i'll go much more into detail about her further down)

3. CLARE. The 25% yoma 75% human claymore merged with the most powerful claymore of all time, Teresa, (and with rafaela's mind-soul and irene/ilena's right arm, lol). (i'll go much more into detail about her further down as well)
-----------------------

The destruction of the Organization, once and for all :

Ever since Rafaela lost her sister, Luciela, to awakening, she has never forgiven the Organization, and vowed to destroy the Organization, at that very moment after she lost her sister, Luciela.

Rafaela, unknown to the Organization, actually had at least the same power of her rank #1 sister, Luciela, and maybe was even more powerful! Unfortunately, she needed to be an identical twin with her sister in able to synchronize their yokis, which resulted in Luciela's awakening, when the Organization had them try to do the soul link technique. Rafaela did not fail the soul link because she had a weak mind and weak yoki power. In fact, Rafaela is probably the most powerful in terms of yoki of all time (except to maybe teresa), even more so than beth is.

Regardless, the tragedy happened, and Rafaela was out for revenge against the Organization, and not just for herself, but for ALL the girls and the families that the Organization has torn apart and destroyed, through their yomas, claymores, and awakened ones.

Rubel recognized/realized this about Rafaela and her actual power being greater than that of a rank #2. They formed an alliance against the Organization and plotted its destruction. They knew about Alicia+Beth, and set in motion a way to compete against the Organization's future weapon (Alicia+Beth).

Rubel and Rafaela both knew about Teresa, unfortunately Teresa wasn't about to be anyone's pawn/slave (Organization's or Rubel+Rafaela's). Teresa was the most powerful claymore of all time and she well knew it. The Organization and Rubel+Rafaela couldn't do anything about her. And, Teresa certainly cared nothing for the petty war between the Organization and the DragonKin+Rubel+Rafaela for power and/or revenge.

Anyways, to deal with Alicia+Beth, when the time was right or the opportunity presented itself, Rafaela would find and merge with her awakened sister, Luciela. They, as a merged being, would than re-awaken, creating the destroyer beast to take on Alicia+Beth (+ the later to be created Abyss Feeders). Unfortunately, there was a problem with this.....

Rafaela, wasn't stupid, and she certainly wasn't about to make the same mistake again, especially with a much much much more powerful body-being-form as the destroyer beast. Rafaela is well aware she wasn’t be able to synchronize her yoki to control her awakened sister, let alone be able to synchronize with this new destroyer beast, ULTIMATE BEING, the "Twin Goddesses of Love". Due to Rafaela's inability to synchronize her yoki, she would create a flawed or incomplete destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love".

Than the Organization, made the fatal mistake and doomed themselves, giving rafaela+rubel a "gift from the gods", Priscilla! Priscilla herself isn't important, but what resulted from Priscilla being sent in hopes by the Organization of getting rid of the greatest "Problem Child" they ever had, Teresa, who just conveniently gave them the excuse to, by killing the human bandits to save little Clare.

Well, we know that Teresa ends up getting decapitated-killed. This causes Clare (to soooo luckily) find-encounter Rubel with Teresa's head (imagine if Clare encountered some one else from the Organization, they'd probably have cut little Clare dead on the spot and smash Teresa's head to pieces. They finally just got rid of Teresa, and would certainly have no intention of "reviving" Teresa by implanting-merging her into Clare's body).

So why is Clare such a "gift from the gods" ?

Clare, because she is only 25% yoma, is able to best control the yoma power. And, Clare is MERGED with Teresa (the most powerful being of all time, excluding clare-teresa, lol).

Unlike, Rafaela+Luciela, who can't control synchronize with each other, Clare+Teresa CAN. Clare+Teresa is able to awaken as the perfect-complete destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-the TRUE "Twin Goddess of Love". The prophecy or legend of the "Twin Goddesses of Love" (ULTIMATE BEING) is coming true!!!

However, clare's mind isn't able to handle the yoma power of the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddess of Love". This is where Rafaela comes in.

Rafaela is one of the oldest of claymores, older or before even Teresa. Also, because of her power and abilities, she's the perfect Assassin (or covert agent), allowing her to "snoop" around the Organization. Also, she has always had FULL ACCESS to the Organization (the poor Organization has no idea she's an enemy). The info that Miria and Galatea have gathered about the Organization is nothing compared to what Rafaela has found out.

Anyways, Rafaela, has uncovered the super forbidden secret within the Organization, that the MIND can awaken, just like the body! Also, Rafaela, discovered the super forbidden secret technique of Soul Sealing, allowing the merging of minds, also within the Organization. Now everything is finally set into place! The only thing that remains, is to pass her knowledge onto the one being, who can control the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love", CLARE+Teresa!

This is where Rubel comes in. Rafaela goes to kill and merge with her sister, Luciela, after Isley's attack on Luciela provides the finally to come about opportunity, that they have been waiting for. Rubel finds Clare and tells her that she should go see Rafaela (who is now merged with Luciela and captured by Riful), knowing that Clare will.

Rafeala and Clare share a connection with each other. They both have "bonds of love". Love, where has that been seen before? how about the "Twin Goddesses of Love"? Only those who have "bonds of love" can become the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love". Rafaela loved her sister, Luciela, and merged with her to save her. Clare loved Teresa and merged with her to save her. This allows Rafaela to do the Soul Seal technique with Clare, allowing their minds to merge.

*Unfortunately for Alicia+Beth, the Organization has stripped all humanity-soul-mind out of them to make them their 100% obedient soulless slave weapons. So Alicia+Beth are mere lifeless dolls and unable to have the "bonds of love".

With Rafaela's mind, Clare knows what she knows. Clare "knows what she must do". Clare must fulfill the prophecy or legend of the "Twin Goddess of Love", which was sowed long ago, when teresa was given her name, and than when she gave clare her name, only to find out that clare's name already was clare. Powerful propechy or legend! Than Clare and Teresa would merge, due to the tragic event between Teresa and Priscilla.

Clare already with merged minds with Rafaela, will awaken her mind, creating a super powerful awaken merged mind (just like with the body of the destroyer beast). Along with Clare only being 25% yoma, she now has the ability to control the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love", and kick the (censored) out of Alicia+Beth, Abyss Feeders, Organization, and the soon to be incomplete or flawed destroyer beast from the "shell" body of Rafaela+luciela, due to implanting-merging rafaela's mind into clare.

Rafaela+Luciala's body will at least keep busy Alicia+Beth, Abyss Feeders, the Organization, Riful, and Dauf, giving clare the time "to do what she knows she must do".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i still really like the concept of being able to AWAKEN THE MIND !!!!!

2009-09-29, 12:47	Link #1010
irvinethearcher Angriest Angel Join Date: Nov 2007	@shiek927 rafaella told clare that there is another personality which will awaken and destroy the from clare's memories reconstructed personality of herself anyway. If we now assume that this is allways the case when a claymore awakens and that this awakened personality is a mixture from human traits and yoma traits from the flesh the claymore was hybridized with, we can say that rafaella held the real soul of her sister and tried to kill the twisted awakened yoma - luciella personality who still cared in some way for her sister(tears) but still seem to care more about power and land and island-domination. Like awakened described, after the death of that personality she tried to infuse luciella's real pesonality. To be able to do that she had first to kill the twisted personality. Probably it is not possible to infuse a human soul into a completely awakened body. In theresa's case there could be some difference because 1.Theresa never awakened at all 2.Clare hold far more memories of her than she held for rafaella but was still able to reconstruct her pesonality from the short moment their spirits met when she scaned riful's hideout 3.clare and theresa are already fused together My theorie is that rafaella gave her wisdom clare for a purpose so that she could achieve what rafaella was unable to do. there is a possibility that this has to do with the huge mistake clare is making. __________________

2009-09-29, 16:00	Link #1014
romari Banned Join Date: Jul 2009	"I love you sister...thats why i'm gonna kill you" ok...i wonder what she would do if she hated her

2009-09-29, 16:31	Link #1017
Shiek927 Thread Hijacker Join Date: May 2009 Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out	http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=144 http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=285 http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=496 http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=503 If she wanted to kill her sister, why didn't she just use her sword?

2009-09-29, 16:43	Link #1020
HegemonKhan Banned Join Date: Sep 2009	this is a really old and wrong crazy idea i had from misreading the manga, but it kinda matches up with your recent posts here, so i thought u might be interested in this.... so here it is (remember that this is now obsolete, it is what i once thought up in the past, and from mis-reading the manga: i got some crazy theories, that are probably way off, but here they are: at the same time that the Organization has been using the island continent as their lab, so has Rubel (the DragonKin Spy), right under the Organization's "noses". The Organization's experiments: 1. Yoma (the normal-original-pure beast ones) 2. Claymores/Silver-Eyed Witches 3. Awakened Ones 4. Abyss Feeders. These were made to help cover for Alicia+Beth's weaknesses. They keep the opponent busy, and weaken or wear down the opponent, so that Beth isn't able to be targetted, while Alicia delivers the final-finishing killing attack-blow-assault on the opponent. Quite good tactics by the Organization to make up for the weaknesses of Alicia+Beth. 5. 100% obedient soulless slaves (Alicia+Beth). They’re controllable awakened ones, but with glaring weaknesses: A. Beth B. needing identical twins C. that also must have very strong yoma powers D. one of them must have a strong enough mind and yoki to control the other fully awakened identical sister). So they can't make a legion-army of them, thank goodness! The Organization needs to DIE, for all the lives they have toyed with and destroyed without any care what-so-ever. Rubel's "experiments" (and/or what he knows about and is allied-cooperating with): 1. "Half Awakens". clare, miria, helen, deneve, and jean-deceased. It appears that the Organization actually still does not know about "half awakening". These "Half Awakened" Claymores have the potential to be "Alicia's" without any of the weaknesses (like needed no "beths" for example). It's good that the Organization seems to be completely unaware of this form-being called "Half Awakens". 2. Rafaela (+luciela). (i'll go much more into detail about her further down) 3. CLARE. The 25% yoma 75% human claymore merged with the most powerful claymore of all time, Teresa, (and with rafaela's mind-soul and irene/ilena's right arm, lol). (i'll go much more into detail about her further down as well) ----------------------- The destruction of the Organization, once and for all : Ever since Rafaela lost her sister, Luciela, to awakening, she has never forgiven the Organization, and vowed to destroy the Organization, at that very moment after she lost her sister, Luciela. Rafaela, unknown to the Organization, actually had at least the same power of her rank #1 sister, Luciela, and maybe was even more powerful! Unfortunately, she needed to be an identical twin with her sister in able to synchronize their yokis, which resulted in Luciela's awakening, when the Organization had them try to do the soul link technique. Rafaela did not fail the soul link because she had a weak mind and weak yoki power. In fact, Rafaela is probably the most powerful in terms of yoki of all time (except to maybe teresa), even more so than beth is. Regardless, the tragedy happened, and Rafaela was out for revenge against the Organization, and not just for herself, but for ALL the girls and the families that the Organization has torn apart and destroyed, through their yomas, claymores, and awakened ones. Rubel recognized/realized this about Rafaela and her actual power being greater than that of a rank #2. They formed an alliance against the Organization and plotted its destruction. They knew about Alicia+Beth, and set in motion a way to compete against the Organization's future weapon (Alicia+Beth). Rubel and Rafaela both knew about Teresa, unfortunately Teresa wasn't about to be anyone's pawn/slave (Organization's or Rubel+Rafaela's). Teresa was the most powerful claymore of all time and she well knew it. The Organization and Rubel+Rafaela couldn't do anything about her. And, Teresa certainly cared nothing for the petty war between the Organization and the DragonKin+Rubel+Rafaela for power and/or revenge. Anyways, to deal with Alicia+Beth, when the time was right or the opportunity presented itself, Rafaela would find and merge with her awakened sister, Luciela. They, as a merged being, would than re-awaken, creating the destroyer beast to take on Alicia+Beth (+ the later to be created Abyss Feeders). Unfortunately, there was a problem with this..... Rafaela, wasn't stupid, and she certainly wasn't about to make the same mistake again, especially with a much much much more powerful body-being-form as the destroyer beast. Rafaela is well aware she wasn’t be able to synchronize her yoki to control her awakened sister, let alone be able to synchronize with this new destroyer beast, ULTIMATE BEING, the "Twin Goddesses of Love". Due to Rafaela's inability to synchronize her yoki, she would create a flawed or incomplete destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love". Than the Organization, made the fatal mistake and doomed themselves, giving rafaela+rubel a "gift from the gods", Priscilla! Priscilla herself isn't important, but what resulted from Priscilla being sent in hopes by the Organization of getting rid of the greatest "Problem Child" they ever had, Teresa, who just conveniently gave them the excuse to, by killing the human bandits to save little Clare. Well, we know that Teresa ends up getting decapitated-killed. This causes Clare (to soooo luckily) find-encounter Rubel with Teresa's head (imagine if Clare encountered some one else from the Organization, they'd probably have cut little Clare dead on the spot and smash Teresa's head to pieces. They finally just got rid of Teresa, and would certainly have no intention of "reviving" Teresa by implanting-merging her into Clare's body). So why is Clare such a "gift from the gods" ? Clare, because she is only 25% yoma, is able to best control the yoma power. And, Clare is MERGED with Teresa (the most powerful being of all time, excluding clare-teresa, lol). Unlike, Rafaela+Luciela, who can't control synchronize with each other, Clare+Teresa CAN. Clare+Teresa is able to awaken as the perfect-complete destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-the TRUE "Twin Goddess of Love". The prophecy or legend of the "Twin Goddesses of Love" (ULTIMATE BEING) is coming true!!! However, clare's mind isn't able to handle the yoma power of the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddess of Love". This is where Rafaela comes in. Rafaela is one of the oldest of claymores, older or before even Teresa. Also, because of her power and abilities, she's the perfect Assassin (or covert agent), allowing her to "snoop" around the Organization. Also, she has always had FULL ACCESS to the Organization (the poor Organization has no idea she's an enemy). The info that Miria and Galatea have gathered about the Organization is nothing compared to what Rafaela has found out. Anyways, Rafaela, has uncovered the super forbidden secret within the Organization, that the MIND can awaken, just like the body! Also, Rafaela, discovered the super forbidden secret technique of Soul Sealing, allowing the merging of minds, also within the Organization. Now everything is finally set into place! The only thing that remains, is to pass her knowledge onto the one being, who can control the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love", CLARE+Teresa! This is where Rubel comes in. Rafaela goes to kill and merge with her sister, Luciela, after Isley's attack on Luciela provides the finally to come about opportunity, that they have been waiting for. Rubel finds Clare and tells her that she should go see Rafaela (who is now merged with Luciela and captured by Riful), knowing that Clare will. Rafeala and Clare share a connection with each other. They both have "bonds of love". Love, where has that been seen before? how about the "Twin Goddesses of Love"? Only those who have "bonds of love" can become the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love". Rafaela loved her sister, Luciela, and merged with her to save her. Clare loved Teresa and merged with her to save her. This allows Rafaela to do the Soul Seal technique with Clare, allowing their minds to merge. *Unfortunately for Alicia+Beth, the Organization has stripped all humanity-soul-mind out of them to make them their 100% obedient soulless slave weapons. So Alicia+Beth are mere lifeless dolls and unable to have the "bonds of love". With Rafaela's mind, Clare knows what she knows. Clare "knows what she must do". Clare must fulfill the prophecy or legend of the "Twin Goddess of Love", which was sowed long ago, when teresa was given her name, and than when she gave clare her name, only to find out that clare's name already was clare. Powerful propechy or legend! Than Clare and Teresa would merge, due to the tragic event between Teresa and Priscilla. Clare already with merged minds with Rafaela, will awaken her mind, creating a super powerful awaken merged mind (just like with the body of the destroyer beast). Along with Clare only being 25% yoma, she now has the ability to control the destroyer beast-ULTIMATE BEING-"Twin Goddesses of Love", and kick the (censored) out of Alicia+Beth, Abyss Feeders, Organization, and the soon to be incomplete or flawed destroyer beast from the "shell" body of Rafaela+luciela, due to implanting-merging rafaela's mind into clare. Rafaela+Luciala's body will at least keep busy Alicia+Beth, Abyss Feeders, the Organization, Riful, and Dauf, giving clare the time "to do what she knows she must do". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i still really like the concept of being able to AWAKEN THE MIND !!!!!