Playstation 4

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Wait, the Xbone doesn't seem to fall that far behind, I wonder why Microsoft have been so quiet about it... And Why they're pulling all these 'desperate' moves.

That's because Sony is selling PS4 in more countries, and if you look at global numbers PS4 is pulling ahead. Fans in Northern Europe are still waiting for MS to sell them XB1s, but MS isn't responding.

MS need XB1 to have a decisive victory in America, because they had given up the lead everywhere else. If the best they could do is a draw in USA, they are in serious trouble.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Maybe because that is exactly what it’s supposed to be? What do you think the “generation” part is referring to? It’s hardware, which primarily deals with general performance and graphical fidelity. Things like creative design are not so easily measurable, if it’s even possible at all.

It’s also the reason why you don’t really see people using “next gen” when referring to audio improvements or PC gaming, the first being usually unnoticeable by the general population, and the latter because the hardware refreshes way too fast for it to be meaningful.

TBH, while graphics is hardly the end-all-be-all of gaming, I do have certain expectations for titles released today, which of course varies depending on genre and the style they’re going for. 2D sprites are perfectly fine for side-scrolling hack&slash (Odin Sphere IMO still looks gorgeous today), but there is no excuse for, say, GT6 to have the graphical quality of GT3.

Products should naturally improve as time goes on and technology improves, video games are no exception. Would you buy a car today that has the features and amenities that mirrors those from the 80s?



As much as I love NIS games, their “engine” is…. rudimentary at best would be a nice way to put it. Now take SE, one of the few JP developers that still makes major titles, they certainly love making their own engines (hell, they ended up making two for FF14!).

Then it's too bad that the PS4 can barely do 1080p huh? Of course graphics will improve, but we're hitting that plateau, where differences gets more and more minuscule. The leap is much much smaller than it was between the 6th and 7th gen consoles.

Actually FF14's engine was just altered. The game still fundamentally played the same, aka boring. but, that last bit is a personal opinion :P

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

PS4 sales in japan is going to taper out until the next gen only games such as FF/KH/MH.

So in about 4-5 years?

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's because Sony is selling PS4 in more countries, and if you look at global numbers PS4 is pulling ahead. Fans in Northern Europe are still waiting for MS to sell them XB1s, but MS isn't responding.

MS need XB1 to have a decisive victory in America, because they had given up the lead everywhere else. If the best they could do is a draw in USA, they are in serious trouble.

XB1's are readily available in Northern Europe. Retailers have imported them

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's because Sony is selling PS4 in more countries, and if you look at global numbers PS4 is pulling ahead. Fans in Northern Europe are still waiting for MS to sell them XB1s, but MS isn't responding.

MS need XB1 to have a decisive victory in America, because they had given up the lead everywhere else. If the best they could do is a draw in USA, they are in serious trouble.

A draw in america is still going to be better than the lifetime to date totals for the first Xbox, Gamecube and Wii U lol. Even the PS3 in america which got utterly spanked by the Wii and 360 outsold those consoles just with N.A sales.

[Chaos2Frozen]

PlayStation Now feature leaked ahead of release?

The PlayStation Store was updated in North America today after missing its Tuesday update as a result of technical issues. But it might have accidentally revealed some of Sony’s PlayStation Now plans.

Atlus’ Catherine now has a rental option in addition to purchasing the full game. NeoGAF users report (via PSN Stores) being able to rent the game for free in one and seven-day rental options, with said rental appearing in the PlayStation Network services list, but are never given an actual download for the game. PlayStation Plus subscribers are reportedly the only users able to see the rental options.

[greensoulreaper]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

PlayStation Now feature leaked ahead of release?

Interesting. Anyone here in the beta right now? I signed up, but haven't gotten much chances to try it. The one time that I did was a bad experience since my connection wasn't very good.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Then it's too bad that the PS4 can barely do 1080p huh? Of course graphics will improve, but we're hitting that plateau, where differences gets more and more minuscule. The leap is much much smaller than it was between the 6th and 7th gen consoles.

So in about 4-5 years?

Plateau? I think we are nowhere near what's possible. In both capacity and fidelity even for the PC platform. It's far too early to judge what's possible with the current console as well. If anything have plateau, it's the hardware median.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Still, it is a known issue that Japanese game developers are stuck with 3DS and PS3 for so long, that they will take a long time to re-adjust. Hopefully the likely announcements of DK2 Oculus next week would wake them up.

I don't think so. PS4 system is pretty much designed to be developer friendly with a large unified memory and off the shelf chipset instead of last gen's exotic cell processor. Hence the whole time to triangle chart posted earlier. I think any delay is going to be on the finance side, i.e how long will it take for the investor to have enough confidence to bankroll a PS4 game. This is where SCEJ really need to work on and with the current state of Sony corp's financial situation, i can't imagine they got much money to work with.

Oculus is exciting new tech but it's only for the enthusiast market right now. It's not going to wake anyone up in the international market let alone in Japan where PC platform is even more niche than anywhere else. Still too early to know whether it will take off or die a horrible death like 3D tv considering it hasn't even made out of prototype stage yet.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Then it's too bad that the PS4 can barely do 1080p huh?

Huh? What does that have anything to do with what I wrote?

Of course graphics will improve, but we're hitting that plateau, where differences gets more and more minuscule. The leap is much much smaller than it was between the 6th and 7th gen consoles.

Uh, no.

In addition to what Jazzrat said above, need I remind you how terribad many of the early PS3 games looked?

If there is any “plateau”, it would be one imposed by the hardware that’s cost-effective and practical to stuff in a small box for consoles, which will always improve, and none on the PC side of things.

Actually FF14's engine was just altered. The game still fundamentally played the same, aka boring. but, that last bit is a personal opinion :P

Actually most of that statement is factually incorrect. FF14 2.0 uses a completely different engine than 1.0, and the gameplay is also fundamentally altered from its original version.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Then it's too bad that the PS4 can barely do 1080p huh? Of course graphics will improve, but we're hitting that plateau, where differences gets more and more minuscule. The leap is much much smaller than it was between the 6th and 7th gen consoles.

Actually FF14's engine was just altered. The game still fundamentally played the same, aka boring. but, that last bit is a personal opinion :P

You may want to compare Metal Gear Solid 3 and 4 again.
Also, the early PS2 games look like PS1. I'm still playing one of them (Ring of Red), and it looks horrible. I just love that game.

Also, the only thing FFXIV retains is its graphic.

[Westlo]

GT3:A-Spec was an early enough PS2 game it was vastly superior in graphics compared to GT2....

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Huh? What does that have anything to do with what I wrote?

Just making a comment about graphics = next gen, but current gen is barely capable of 1080p when PCs has been capable of it for several years already.

Uh, no.

In addition to what Jazzrat said above, need I remind you how terribad many of the early PS3 games looked?

Uh, Developers needed to learn how to work in HD, it was the transition that needed to be made, and not to mention the architecture of the PS3 was foreign and a bitch to program for. Which is NOT the case with the current gen (excluding WiiU, which still uses voodoo tech). Dev's have several years of HD development on their side and now with x86 architecture, there's nothing new to learn.

If there is any “plateau”, it would be one imposed by the hardware that’s cost-effective and practical to stuff in a small box for consoles, which will always improve, and none on the PC side of things.

Yeah, hardware will always impose limitations. I'm a primary PC gamer with a hell of a rig that is needlessly expensive. And I can honestly say high end PC games although are gorgeous, it's not too much different from late PS360 games.

Actually most of that statement is factually incorrect. FF14 2.0 uses a completely different engine than 1.0, and the gameplay is also fundamentally altered from its original version.

From clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3... to clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3?

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Just making a comment about graphics = next gen, but current gen is barely capable of 1080p when PCs has been capable of it for several years already.

That depends on games, and how the dev optimize their engine.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

From clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3... to clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3?

If that's how you get from that, I don't really think anything else could get you to understand, honestly. You could also say Ragnarok Online and WoW are using the same engine with that analogy.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Just making a comment about graphics = next gen, but current gen is barely capable of 1080p when PCs has been capable of it for several years already.

Did you not bother reading what I wrote? What do you think “next gen” means? And why you trying to bring in PCs into a term that’s only really applicable to consoles?

Dev's have several years of HD development on their side and now with x86 architecture, there's nothing new to learn.

Since you’re such an expert, you should obviously send that memo to all the game devs and tell them how terribly they suck since they haven’t been able to fully optimize their games on the new consoles yet

You know, because “there’s nothing new to learn”

Yeah, hardware will always impose limitations. I'm a primary PC gamer with a hell of a rig that is needlessly expensive. And I can honestly say high end PC games although are gorgeous, it's not too much different from late PS360 games.

You either:

1. Need to use something than a single 1080p monitor

2. Need to get new prescription for your glasses

From clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3... to clicking on a mob and pressing 1,2,3?

/facepalm
If you’re going to resort to fallacies, there is no point in continuing this. By your logic, there is no difference between baseball and cricket, because they both involve a hitting a ball with a stick

Hell, using that exact criteria FF14 is no different than Eve Online, I’d like to see you try to make that argument without getting your ass ridiculed into next week, especially by Eve players.

Reduction ad absurdum, it’s bad mkay?

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Since you’re such an expert, you should obviously send that memo to all the game devs and tell them how terribly they suck since they haven’t been able to fully optimize their games on the new consoles yet

You know, because “there’s nothing new to learn”

There are actually many things left to improve. Also, people should remember that they could optimize the OS to use less resource, and allocate the remaining ones for games. PS3's OS actually shrink down from 120MB RAM to 50MB, while still adding more and more features.

Sony is still improving their tools, and developers still have much to learn.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Did you not bother reading what I wrote? What do you think “next gen” means? And why you trying to bring in PCs into a term that’s only really applicable to consoles?

I said "People reference "next gen" to graphics" and you said "that's how it should be", and then I said "too bad the current gen can't do 1080p", see the relevance?

PC is a good measuring stick, as it's what you should use to expect from "next gen" graphics. Especially when the PS4/XBOne uses modified PC parts.

Since you’re such an expert, you should obviously send that memo to all the game devs and tell them how terribly they suck since they haven’t been able to fully optimize their games on the new consoles yet

You know, because “there’s nothing new to learn”



You either:

1. Need to use something than a single 1080p monitor

2. Need to get new prescription for your glasses

Perhaps my "nothing new" was a bit too vague and perhaps harsh, I should have been more elaborate. The architecture is familiar and not foreign like the previous generations, so there's no "finding the potential" of the hardware like it was with the Cell and whatnot. Of course there is always new ways to optimize coding to fit the OS of the systems, but the limitations of the hardware are not a mystery, devs already know what the system can handle, it's a matter of learning how to work around it, to take better advantage of it.

/facepalm
If you’re going to resort to fallacies, there is no point in continuing this. By your logic, there is no difference between baseball and cricket, because they both involve a hitting a ball with a stick

Hell, using that exact criteria FF14 is no different than Eve Online, I’d like to see you try to make that argument without getting your ass ridiculed into next week, especially by Eve players.

Reduction ad absurdum, it’s bad mkay?

[/quote]

Spreed-Sheet online? woo I'm so scared! Hold me!

The base mechanic is still the same, they streamlined and improved on things to make it more accessible. Terrible comparison btw, reworking an engine to improve it is not the same building an entirely new engine.

We could argue tastes in MMOs all day in a pointless battles of opinions, but i think it's probably one thing we can agree on is not doing that.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I said "People reference "next gen" to graphics" and you said "that's how it should be", and then I said "too bad the current gen can't do 1080p", see the relevance?

No, because my point is that next gen is literally what they are – unless you’re trying to tell me that 8 comes before 7.

PC is a good measuring stick, as it's what you should use to expect from "next gen" graphics.

Uh, no. Any gamers with a rudimentary knowledge of computer hardware knows that cost and thermal limitations that a console’s form factor presents means a console can never really compete with PCs in raw power, and the long development time combined with the quick PC refresh cycles only tips the scale further.

That’s like saying one should use a GTR or 911s as a measuring stick for performance when buying a compact sports car.

random id badge pic

Are we supposed to be impressed?

it's a matter of learning how to work around it, to take better advantage of it.

And what do we call that again?

Spreed-Sheet online? woo I'm so scared! Hold me!

That moment when you know the other guy realized he doesn’t have any legitimate arguments left and opted instead for deflections and petty insults.

The base mechanic is still the same, they streamlined and improved on things to make it more accessible.

Anyone who’s played both 1.0 and 2.0 for more than 10 minutes will just laugh you out of the room. One is as slow as they come, with a far more methodical combat system, while the other is your WoW-style twitch combat. And many would also argue about your claim of “improved on things”, especially the crafters and gatherers.

Terrible comparison btw, reworking an engine to improve it is not the same building an entirely new engine.

FF14 1.0 was developed with Crystal Tools, the same engine used by FF13. FF14 2.0 was developed using an offshoot of the Luminous Engine that was first shown in the Agnis Philosophy trailer.

We could argue tastes in MMOs all day in a pointless battles of opinions, but i think it's probably one thing we can agree on is not doing that.

I couldn’t care less about your taste in MMOs, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by kyp275

No, because my point is that next gen is literally what they are – unless you’re trying to tell me that 8 comes before 7.

That makes no sense, and stop contradicting yourself.

Uh, no. Any gamers with a rudimentary knowledge of computer hardware knows that cost and thermal limitations that a console’s form factor presents means a console can never really compete with PCs in raw power, and the long development time combined with the quick PC refresh cycles only tips the scale further.

That’s like saying one should use a GTR or 911s as a measuring stick for performance when buying a compact sports car.

PC and consoles will always be compared no matter how much you don't like it, or believing it to be asinine. Of course consoles will always be held back by cost. But, both are platforms for playing the same games, and consumers choose products base on performance, features, affordability, and what they intend to use said product for.

PCs do everything the PS4/XBOne does and better, with infinitely more features, and in the long run, much more affordable.

Also your comparison is retarded, no one is going to compare a car made for racing to a every day use car.

Are we supposed to be impressed?

Impressed? no, but I take my professional experience and knowledge over someone who "learned" random information off the internet.

And what do we call that again?

That moment when you know the other guy realized he doesn’t have any legitimate arguments left and opted instead for deflections and petty insults.

Pot calling the kettle black? I do enjoy how you ignore the rest of the posts though.

Anyone who’s played both 1.0 and 2.0 for more than 10 minutes will just laugh you out of the room. One is as slow as they come, with a far more methodical combat system, while the other is your WoW-style twitch combat. And many would also argue about your claim of “improved on things”, especially the crafters and gatherers.

FF14 1.0 was developed with Crystal Tools, the same engine used by FF13. FF14 2.0 was developed using an offshoot of the Luminous Engine that was first shown in the Agnis Philosophy trailer.

I couldn’t care less about your taste in MMOs, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.

Still not a "brand new" engine. still using recycled assets and the game "plays" the "same". All ARR did was made it into a WoW clone. I do apologize for not knowing the facts behind the game, but truth be told I could care less about boring games and never bother checking.

[BetoJR]

Could you guys stop with the petty arguments and the thread hijacking? It's getting dull...
Also, the console having difficulty with 1080p isn't the PS4, ok? It's the other one.

[greensoulreaper]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Could you guys stop with the petty arguments and the thread hijacking? It's getting dull...
Also, the console having difficulty with 1080p isn't the PS4, ok? It's the other one.

^This.

There has been only one game so far that couldn't reach that res. (BF4) but that's attributed to the developer's choice on going about things. Their optimization hasn't been good from the start. That game was littered with bugs at launch and still is today from what I hear. At least 900p is close, but still a disappointment.

PS4 isn't even half a year old yet and a ton of games have yet to be released. I think most issues so far just come from developers trying to get used to the new hardware.

[RRW]

http://m.ustream.tv/channel/%E6%9D%8...8C%AB%E3%81%A8

releasing PS4 with streaming capability in Japan is best thing sony ever done