2009-01-15, 08:44 | Link #261 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Well, that's been quite interesting...
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So letsee... Quote:
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For essentially all animes you listed, the main characters are dripping "good". They're fundamentally decent people. They act decently. Even in the dramatic moments, they almost universally do the "right" things, and if they don't, they tend to repent very quickly. The drama moments tend to circle around misunderstandings, shyness and unchangeable "fate" kind of things like illnesses or death. The "white" kind of drama. The KimiNozo class of anime are different. Here, we are treated to less-than-honorable actions and motivations. Here, driving factors also include negative ones like jealousy, envy, bitterness, disappointment or hate. The characters aren't fundamentally _good_, but fundamentally _human_, as in they have their strengths AND flaws. The confrontations do NOT have good endings for most of the characters. They tend to end unfulfilled and with their feelings hurt, and often enough even the "winning" couple is battered and needs to start from scratch. We don't see merely the beauty, but also the ugly. And while they may be completely over-the-top at times (think School Days anime endings), the way to the endings are usually more realistic in my experiences. To use an analogy, you listed romance anime which tended to have the "clean" form or romantic pursuit, like filtered high-class wheat flour at baking. You get the artsy forms like H&C which are like croissants, sweet tarts like Clannad or decent middle-of-the-road romance bagels like Kare Kano. Occasionally they have a sour drama filling (AIR, ef), but the prevalent taste is and remains sweet, because most of the ugly grist is filtered out. Following this metaphor, I'm more of a guy who is enjoying coarse rye bread. I want the ugly, too, because this is what makes the story feel _real_ to me. This is something I could also personally relate to, the ups AND the downs. It will be tasting more bitter, and it is much harder to chew. But then again, it feels more satisfying to me Quote:
Whether or not you like characters is entirely subjective and not open to debate. I just get the impression that you seem to develop a dislike for characters who do the "ugly". Could that be true? |
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2009-01-15, 09:49 | Link #262 | |
Somehow I found out
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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I just think sympathizing with the characters or at least understanding them is a necessity for drama. If we take KGNE as an example, there's no real deep exploration of Takayuki's character, because, well, he's not all that interesting and deep a character. And he's certainly not sympathetic. Spoiler for KGNE:
If we want to talk about losers in anime, I guess we can talk about Kaiji. I know it's a different genre, but I think the comparison is a good one. He makes stupid decisions and gets himself into unnecessarily desperate situations because of it. But he still does things which make him sympathetic to the audience. His story is basically one of ongoing redemption; each time he makes a mistake, he's basically forced to make amends somehow or face death. And he does this by fighting back, by acting courageously and thinking things through. He frequently survives against the odds, which is the appeal of watching him face his challenges. But he also learns along the way, about himself, about humanity. He has epiphanies which act as an insight into what makes his character tick. But this also makes his eyes an ideal lens through which the show can explore a lot of the ideas and concepts it wants to, a lot of which involve the darker side of society and human nature, this "reality" you were talking about. It's an exploration of an aspect of reality that doesn't need to be emotionally overbearing to work. It lets the images speak for themselves, rather than trying to force a certain emotion upon the audience, which is why I think it's a superior exploration to anything in KGNE. I guess you could say that's an apples and oranges comparison, but this is basically why I consider something like Kaiji to be a far better drama to something like KGNE. Kaiji might have been over the top (not as much as KGNE), but it's gritty and dark, but doesn't dwell on angst or feel like the emotional investment needs to be spelled out for the drama to work. It has a lead character who is both well developed and analyzed over the course of the story, a character that embodies both the good and bad things about man, and it says a lot of interesting things about society and existential philosophy, and presents them with a deftness that makes its themes memorable and eye-opening. This is why I'd put Kaiji on a pedastal over KGNE as far as drama is concerned. One is, in my eyes, much more meaningful and evocative than the other, which frequently comes off as forced.
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2009-01-15, 10:18 | Link #263 |
Lurker
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I can't put my finger on whether I like this series or not. It's slow as hell and the mood seems to be stale. But oddly enough, I'm semi interested at what will actually happen. I guess I'll give it a third episode and see whether I'm able to feel anything for any of the characters.
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2009-01-15, 11:08 | Link #264 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Felt this was basically a wasted episode, with nothing really happening. I guess being based on a visual novel you'd expect many females getting along with the main character, but for an anime this really needs to be cut down, especially since they all have nothing to do with each other.
It seems to be either a harem ending or a boat ending. School Days 2.0 FTW! |
2009-01-15, 13:12 | Link #265 | |
Who am I?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Babuyan Islands
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2009-01-15, 13:19 | Link #266 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You know, when there are long posts made that barely mention the show at hand, it's obvious that a thread is going off-topic. The occasional comparison to other shows is fine, but can we concentrate more on White Album itself. Sorrow-K, it seems like you don't care for the style of show like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, but you should accomodate the fact that there are going to be people who have vastly different tolerances than you do. I don't think that White Album is going to be quite the same kind of show, so you might be able to find something in it more appealing.
As for White Album itself, I'm still not quite sold on it, but my impression has greatly improved after rewatching the first couple of episodes. I've taken a liking to Akira and Rina, but I find it hard to warm to Yuki and Touya. But the main thing that's keeping me from liking the show more is the direction itself. My main gripes here are the inner voice monologue and some of the more unusual flourishes used. For the former, I'm of the mindset that any thoughts expressed that way can (and should) be shown through non-verbal means. Writing it out plainly like that seems to be a case of "tell, don't show". For an example of the latter, the very first scene of the series, the dream sequence in the cafe, is one of the most aggravating scenes I've watched in a long time. I actually like this kind of direction for more surreal or stylized works, but I find it grating for more straightforward fare like White Album. It's also the reason why I had to rewatch those episodes - it takes more effort to watch the show than should be required. We'll see if it manages to improve from here.
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2009-01-15, 16:10 | Link #267 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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And sorry, I don't think your following tirade contains anything worth commenting on. Sorry for somehow getting you to blow a gasket. Just forget it. Last edited by Mentar; 2009-01-15 at 16:33. |
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2009-01-15, 20:33 | Link #269 | |
Somehow I found out
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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I don't get angry when people question my taste in anime. Why would I? It almost always leads to such interesting discussions, like the one we were having before you tainted it with a demeaning question of my state-of-mind. But I do get angry when someone questions something personal about me, my motives or my state-of-mind, like you did just now. It's a cheap, demeaning way to bring into question everything I wrote by saying "oh, he just blew a gasket for some reason". It doesn't bother me if you don't want to continue this discussion, but you can't have the last word by making a patently false accusation about me, personally. We're way off topic now, so if you do want to continue, post a message in my Profile. I'd have done likewise with this one, but I felt like my reputation was at stake, which is pretty much the only time when I'll get defensive.
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2009-01-15, 21:29 | Link #272 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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But on the slice of life thing, I understand that. But even as a slice of life show nothing happened. There does come to a point where you can be "too slow". I think the show is trying to incorporate too many characters and storylines, which is fine if it's a 30 hour-long episodes Korean drama, but not if you're a 13/26 episode anime. |
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2009-01-17, 12:39 | Link #274 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I just watched the live stream of White Album.
Rina made an impressive show of power in this episode, interrupting a recording just to slap Touya hard. I have no idea why, though I can venture a guess or two. Unlike most other anime out there, I find White Album nearly impossible to understand without subs.
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2009-01-17, 12:50 | Link #275 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Quick drop-in from the Uppcon...
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Why go over the dozens of heated discussions over issues which took place back then during KGNE? Should Takayuki have waited? When should he have stopped? Was Mitsuki justified in making her move? Should she have taken Takayuki under her wings in the first place? How far does responsibility go? What about Akane's anger? How should Haruka deal with the situation? And most prominently, what was the true meaning of Haruka's book at the end (one of the most wonderful allegories I've ever seen, btw)? All these questions are meaningless according to you? I like ef - it was a nice couple of more or less unrelated stories. The Chihiro story had an excellent climax in the second to last episode, but the resolution didn't quite satisfy me - "love conquers all" is no message which gets me excited. And the other triangle was also highly enjoyable (I liked the phone call including timer), but it most certainly didn't have the complexity and depth of Kiminozo. Not by a long shot. What were all these "themes" that I missed? (Well, not just me - compared to the KimiNozo frenzy, there were nearly no discussions in the ef thread - guess I wasn't the only one). But then again, there's little point in discussing our personal preferences if the difference is so vast. Quote:
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*shakes his head and returns to the con* Last edited by Skyfall; 2009-01-18 at 03:59. |
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2009-01-17, 13:00 | Link #276 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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I think I can already figure out whats going to happen. Because of Touya's insecurities about his relationship with Yuki, he's going to end up being unfaithful and sleep with the other girls of the series. Theres going to obvious angst and drama brought about. But I think in the end, things will be amended and Touya and Yuki will end up together again. Just call it a hunch. If I'm right, I'll quote myself on this XD
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drama, eroge, romance, seinen |
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