Psycho-Pass - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[orion]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

stuff

I was talking more about business not politics. If Japan is an investor in other countries or have businesses in other countries, then a lot of companies and governments could be hurting if Japan falls.

I don't think the risks of dismantling is worth it.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by orion

I was talking more about business not politics. If Japan is an investor in other countries or have businesses in other countries, then a lot of companies and governments could be hurting if Japan falls.

I don't think the risks of dismantling is worth it.

That has nothing to do with the fact that Japan in the story is effectively North Korea and is not in any way stable. You can't pretend Sybil needed to be kept because you want to save Japan; Japan survived revolutions many times, just like every other nation. They can survive another to bring people out of the clear despotism.

Everyone is better off when Japan is ruled by a transparent political system with checks and balances. Right now it is just a police state.

[Triple_R]

I doubt there's many multinationals investing in the Japan of Psycho-Pass. The Sibyl system only existing in Japan makes that highly unlikely.

Here's the reason why...

Multinationals transfer mid-to-higher management positions on a regular basis. People born and originally working in one country can end up working for a branch half-way around the globe. These sorts of transfers are routine.

Now, let's say an American working in a mid-management position for a Nike office in Texas is transferred to a Nike office in Japan.

"Hell no, I won't go!" he says, "There's no way I'm subjecting myself to that nation's Sybil system. Why I could get killed over there!"

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I doubt there's many multinationals investing in the Japan of Psycho-Pass. The Sibyl system only existing in Japan makes that highly unlikely.

Here's the reason why...

Multinationals transfer mid-to-higher management positions on a regular basis. People born and originally working in one country can end up working for a branch half-way around the globe. These sorts of transfers are routine.

Now, let's say an American working in a mid-management position for a Nike office in Texas is transferred to a Nike office in Japan.

"Hell no, I won't go!" he says, "There's no way I'm subjecting myself to that nation's Sybil system. Why I could get killed over there!"

Ep 19 pretty much just discussed all of that. Japan is pretty much fucked up if you think about it.

[orion]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

Ep 19 pretty much just discussed all of that. Japan is pretty much fucked up if you think about it.

But where's the money coming from? Setting up all that takes money.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by orion

But where's the money coming from? Setting up all that takes money.

Police state with automations up the ass doesn't cost that much.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I doubt there's many multinationals investing in the Japan of Psycho-Pass. The Sibyl system only existing in Japan makes that highly unlikely.

Here's the reason why...

Multinationals transfer mid-to-higher management positions on a regular basis. People born and originally working in one country can end up working for a branch half-way around the globe. These sorts of transfers are routine.

Now, let's say an American working in a mid-management position for a Nike office in Texas is transferred to a Nike office in Japan.

"Hell no, I won't go!" he says, "There's no way I'm subjecting myself to that nation's Sybil system. Why I could get killed over there!"

While I agree that there probably are few multinationals in this version of Japan, why would anyone be scared of getting killed in a land that has no crime?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dengar

While I agree that there probably are few multinationals in this version of Japan, why would anyone be scared of getting killed in a land that has no crime?

Because the government executes people with no trial when it feels like it?

It doesn't matter if you get killed in the hands of a criminal or a government droid. Dead is dead. Like how that one tourist visiting North Korea go shot dead for no publicised reason. If you visit Cybil Japan, the government reserves the right to kill you at any time for any reason it sees fit. So why would you go?

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Because the government executes people with no trial when it feels like it?

It doesn't matter if you get killed in the hands of a criminal or a government droid. Dead is dead. Like how that one tourist visiting North Korea go shot dead for no publicised reason. If you visit Cybil Japan, the government reserves the right to kill you at any time for any reason it sees fit. So why would you go?

"When it feels like it?"

You mean when you're prone to committing murder, right?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dengar

"When it feels like it?"

You mean when you're prone to committing murder, right?

We only have Sybil's word on that. And as we now know, Sybil is free to kill anyone at all and paper over the execution by blaming the Psychopass score.

The point remains, you don't get a fair trial in Japan. You don't get a warning, just BANG, dead. You want to risk it, your choice.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

We only have Sybil's word on that. And as we now know, Sybil is free to kill anyone at all and paper over the execution by blaming the Psychopass score.

The point remains, you don't get a fair trial in Japan. You don't get a warning, just BANG, dead. You want to risk it, your choice.

If you don't want to get shot dead, then MAYBE you should stop wanting to murder people. You know, become a normal person instead. Sibyl being corrupt has nothing to do with this, because as an outsider, you would not know about it.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you don't want to get shot dead, then MAYBE you should stop wanting to murder people. You know, become a normal person instead. Sibyl being corrupt has nothing to do with this, because as an outsider, you would not know about it.

An outsider would be used to things like trials and juries. Not instant executions on the streets. So as an outsider you would be crazy to go to Japan, as to you it would be an unfair legal system.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dengar

While I agree that there probably are few multinationals in this version of Japan, why would anyone be scared of getting killed in a land that has no crime?

Even freaking Japanese Inspectors don't know exactly what Psycho-Pass readings entail. You yourself are just assuming it means "propensity to murder others" when it could mean something else entirely.

Frankly, there's reason to suspect that simply getting stressed out causes your Psycho-Pass reading to go up, as we see with Gino. Gino's not a downright murderous guy, but his hue is worsening and his Psycho-Pass reading is rising.

Also, what about Yayoi? She also doesn't strike me as a particularly murderous person. So what caused her to become a latent criminal? Remember that in her case this happened before she joined the police force.


I honestly have little idea what my Psycho-Pass reading would be. It's certainly not something I'd be willing to risk my life over. And I'd say that most people living outside of the Japan of Psycho-Pass would feel the same way.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Even freaking Japanese Inspectors don't know exactly what Psycho-Pass readings entail. You yourself are just assuming it means "propensity to murder others" when it could mean something else entirely.

Frankly, there's reason to suspect that simply getting stressed out causes your Psycho-Pass reading to go up, as we see with Gino.

Stressed, as in going to a new, strange country to negotiate big contracts?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Stressed, as in going to a new, strange country to negotiate big contracts?

Bingo.

Really, it's no surprise that the Japan of Psycho-Pass has cut off contact with the outside world. Once a country embraces something like Sibyl while the rest of the world doesn't, that country really has no choice but to isolate itself. The alternative would be very, very messy.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Dengar

While I agree that there probably are few multinationals in this version of Japan, why would anyone be scared of getting killed in a land that has no crime?

It's probably less killed off, and more arbitrarily imprisoned. You can think yourself a perfectly regular person, but still get flagged as a latent criminal by Sybil.

If you lived in a free society, would you wanna visit a country where a machine arbitrarily decided whether or not to stick you in a padded cell upon your entry?

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you don't want to get shot dead, then MAYBE you should stop wanting to murder people. You know, become a normal person instead. Sibyl being corrupt has nothing to do with this, because as an outsider, you would not know about it.

Kagari got labelled a latent criminal when he was five years old and was declared untreatable, and locked away for life. Yayoi was a seemingly normal musician who showed no overt signs of violent tendencies when she was declared a latent criminal. Masaoka was a regular cop who got labeled a latent criminal because he had MISGIVINGS about mindlessly shooting people. Do you think any of them thought of themselves as being inherently murderous? Did anyone else around them think so until a machine told them so?


The biggest reason that you can't let any foreigners into Psycho-Pass Japan, because as we've seen with many of the Enforcers, lack of faith in the Sybil system is interpreted as high crime coefficient. A foreigner raised in a different culture is almost garunteed to not have faith in the Sybil system. Result? Said tourist gets labeled as a latent criminal...so what do you do with him then? A country with a judiciary isn't going to accept the reason for the arrest, as its citizen hadn't committed a crime. This kinda thing creates an international incident...and should a country that could be taken over by a dozen well armed commandos really go antagonizing other countries by imprisoning their citizens in psych wards?

[Dengar]

Still there seems to be misconception. A lot of people in this discussion are acting like the dominator is on explode mode for every random Joe, when it really isn't. When people get stressed out, a drone will come tell them they're being stressed out and may want to see a psychiatrist. Unless they're avoiding the psycho-pass scanners, but why would you do that if you don't have anything to hide?

If you're prone to committing some crime, you'll be captured, not exploded. You'll probably receive treatment, and maybe there is a prospect of recovery. The explode setting is reserved for dangerous people.

Corrupt system overrides notwithstanding of course, but that's not what this is about.

Is it that strange that I feel like people have it backwards? I mean, having a high CC doesn't make you prone to commit crimes. It's because you're prone to committing crimes that you have a high CC. If you're not into brutally murdering people, you will be fine.


Just so you know, Kagari seems like a bit of a rebel to me. His CC was probably justified.


We also know what happened to Ko, so his CC seems to make sense as well.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you're prone to committing some crime, you'll be captured, not exploded. You'll probably receive treatment, and maybe there is a prospect of recovery. The explode setting is reserved for dangerous people.

And can you REALLY not see how this is problematic as far as letting people from other countries visit Sybil Japan? Especially when *treatment* for some manifests as life time incarceration?

Can you not comprehend how this would deter many people from visiting? Or how for the Sybil system, this is actively dangerous, since it brings it into conflict with other nations?

Originally Posted by Dengar

Just so you know, Kagari seems like a bit of a rebel to me. His CC was probably justified.

Okay, so long as you're not "a bit of a rebel", you can freely spend your summer vacation in Sybil Japan with reasonable chances of not finding yourself locked in an insane asylum. Just make sure to spend plenty of time thinking about that before you go on that trip.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

And can you REALLY not see how this is problematic as far as letting people from other countries visit Sybil Japan? Especially when *treatment* for some manifests as life time incarceration?

Can you not comprehend how this would deter many people from visiting? Or how for the Sybil system, this is actively dangerous, since it brings it into conflict with other nations?
Okay, so long as you're not "a bit of a rebel", you can freely spend your summer vacation in Sybil Japan with reasonable chances of not finding yourself locked in an insane asylum. Just make sure to spend plenty of time thinking about that before you go on that trip.

Well, millions of OTHER people seem to be not in an insane asylum. O_O

I just think your proportions are a little off, probably because the story focuses a lot on the criminals and those apprehending them, and normal people hardly ever get any screen time.

As for the 'bit of a rebel' thing, maybe I was being a little soft. I meant the type of guy who vandalises dumpsters and bus stops for fun.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well, millions of OTHER people seem to be not in an insane asylum. O_O

The millions of people who are kept actively medicated and indoctrinated to have faith in the Sybil system?


Here's the thing. Average tourist who comes to visit Sybil Japan isn't medicated up to Sybil Japans mental health standards. And he isn't indoctrinated to have as much faith in the system as the average citizen in Sybil Japan (and keep in mind, not having complete faith in Sybil IS a perfectly valid way for crime coefficient to rise).


You're going to have a not so insignificant number of tourists coming in with Crime coefficients hovering around 100. People who the tourists with crime coefficients in the 60's are going to view as being about as mentally healthy as themselves. Then when the two of them step off the plane, one of them gets tazed, cuffed, and taken off to get their meds.


Who would want to visit a country where this could happen to you?

Originally Posted by Dengar

I just think your proportions are a little off, probably because the story focuses a lot on the criminals and those apprehending them, and normal people hardly ever get any screen time.

Except the *normal* people have low crime coefficients because they're being actively medicated, propagandized to believe in the system, and are made conscious about striving to have a clear Psycho-Pass.

Most tourists won't be as medicated. Most tourists won't have as much innate faith in the Sybil System, and they won't have spent a life time growing up in a society teaching them how to keep their hue low.