To Aru Majutsu no Index Light Novel Discussion (Archives)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Twi

I actually took an interest in Norse Mythology after seeing Stiyl for the first time in the anime, in fact it's the basis for me going into writing and has dyed all of my stories.

And actually that would be cool....hello next fanfiction enemy!!!

I've once wrote a magician that was base on the Grinch that stole Christmas during my Christmas special fic.

She had long green hair and superhuman strength and was throwing around cars.

Originally Posted by Twi

Well, it's not like the author can suddenly split from his bread and butter can he? He at least partially studies the myths he throws up I think, so he had to expand from there.

Although, a Kalku might be interesting.

Bread and butter? Norse myth was only touched once in a very long while until recently.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I've once wrote a magician that was base on the Grinch that stole Christmas during my Christmas special fic.

She had long green hair and superhuman strength and was throwing around cars.



Bread and butter? Norse myth was only touched once in a very long while until recently.

[Logical Rant]

Think about it:
1.) Runes are one of the most used magics for people clearing fields and spells.
2.) Acqua used runes for water control.
3.) Index summoned Freyja's sword to fight Innocentius, which has Stiyl's runes as a base.
4.) The Kanzaki SS was a huge collection of Norse myths.
5.) Stiyl's SS involved the woman magician using a principal of a Norse myth for her flames, and the bad guy used runes by implanting them on objects so that even fire burned.
6.) Mikoto's 2nd SS had New Light, whose magic is based off it as well.
7.) And Judging by the spoilers, we know who is involved and what he's after.
8.) And then there's the guy who was nearly a Majin, smacking around Level 5s with Odin's throne.

It's not just there, it's woven so deeply into the story trying to remove it is like removing the Greek Mythology from the Percy Jackson series. The author draws in various sources, but Norse is at least one of the most reoccurring ones next to Christianity. I mean, when was the last time Japanese Mythology was used in this series despite it being a Japanese book series?

He mostly focuses on the Egyptian Aeons, Christianity, and Norse.

Norse is his bread and butter, the Egyptian Aeons are the cheese, and Christianity is the meat.

They make a delicious sandwich that all of us have taken a bite out of.

[/End Logical Rant]

Edit: Anyone want to debate this, come forth. I'm on a roll.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Twi

Think about it:
1.) Runes are one of the most used magics for people clearing fields and spells.
2.) Acqua used runes for water control.
3.) Index summoned Freyja's sword to fight Innocentius, which has Stiyl's runes as a base.
4.) The Kanzaki SS was a huge collection of Norse myths.
5.) Stiyl's SS involved the woman magician using a principal of a Norse myth for her flames, and the bad guy used runes by implanting them on objects so that even fire burned.
6.) Mikoto's 2nd SS had New Light, whose magic is based off it as well.
7.) And Judging by the spoilers, we know who is involved and what he's after.
8.) And then there's the guy who was nearly a Majin, smacking around Level 5s with Odin's throne.
And Judging by the spoilers, we know who is involved and what he's after.

It's not just there, it's woven so deeply into the story trying to remove it is like removing the Greek Mythology from the Percy Jackson series.

All that points you've brought up still fall under 'minor' use, okay with the exception of the Norse SS since obviously Norse myth would be the focus.

I do agree that the Author has been using Norse for awhile, but those usage usually fall under off-handed expositions in the grand scheme of things- like 4% is Norse, 92% Abrahamic religion, and 4% others - Hardly what I would call bread and butter.

Christianity is the bread and butter and is the one comparative to Percy Jackson's Greek, not Norse.

Norse is like the peanut chips, only recently it has gonna a slightly bigger chunk.

Originally Posted by Twi

I mean, when was the last time Japanese Mythology was used in this series despite it being a Japanese book series?

Any Amakusa involvement and that crossbow guy.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

All that points you've brought up still fall under 'minor' use, okay with the exception of the Norse SS since obviously Norse myth would be the focus.

I do agree that the Author has been using Norse for awhile, but those usage usually fall under off-handed expositions in the grand scheme of things- like 4% is Norse, 92% Abrahamic religion, and 4% others - Hardly what I would call bread and butter.





Any Amakusa involvement and that crossbow guy.

Amakusa use more Christianity mixed with Japanese, based on the principle that the Christian's had to do it in secret at the time of their founding. And even if they seem minor, remove those elements and the story begins to fall on itself, because you'd have to remove the characters that rely on the principles.

And fine, Christianity holds the top spot, but like I said, top three reoccurring. Removing any one of them would be a major blow given their constant use.
Heck, that's the reason that they went after Orsola, because in-story Christianity is the most wide spread on the magic side and holds the most power.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Twi

Amakusa use more Christianity mixed with Japanese, based on the principle that the Christian's had to do it in secret at the time of their founding.

It since counts since you've accepted that minor elements are just as important.

Originally Posted by Twi

And even if they seem minor, remove those elements and the story begins to fall on itself, because you'd have to remove the characters that rely on the principles.

Look that's not the point at all- Actually I don't know why I'm even so adamant about this (=_=);

I don't disagree that Norse is prominent in this story, but unless the definition of Bread and Butter have changed since I became a voting citizen, you can't honestly claim that Norse is his Bread and Butter when Christianity holds a ridiculous portion of plot.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It since counts since you've accepted that minor elements are just as important.

Look that's not the point at all- Actually I don't know why I'm even so adamant about this (=_=); I don't disagree that Norse is prominent in this story, but unless the definition of Bread and Butter have changed since I became a voting citizen, you can't honestly claim that Norse is his Bread and Butter when Christianity holds a ridiculous portion of plot.

I'll count it, but I'm just saying that the last time that they used a Japanese spell was that teleportation one they were planning. The rest were using Christian principals for their battles, and they've hardly had any activity for some time.

You're probably being adamant out of boredom and an interest in showcasing your knowledge, but I said bread and butter since I always noted it as a major underlying theme. If Bread and Butter is too much, then we'll say it's the Lettuce on a BLT.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Twi

You're probably being adamant out of boredom and an interest in showcasing your knowledge, but I said bread and butter since I always noted it as a major underlying theme. If Bread and Butter is too much, then we'll say it's the Lettuce on a BLT.

Nono, it seem I just find it very wrong to use 'Bread and Butter' for something that doesn't quite fit the definition that I've come to know -_-

But meh, this is not something to actually argue over- consider the topic dropped on my end.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Nono, it seem I just find it very wrong to use 'Bread and Butter' for something that doesn't quite fit the definition that I've come to know -_-

But meh, this is not something to actually argue over- consider the topic dropped on my end.

Argument have no solid bases and have no merit. This is a debate. But yeah, alright, we'll just drop it.

Umm...what were we discussing before this?

[djmaca]

@Twi

This series had always been Church vs Academy. While the Church touch the subject of magic being influenced by other esoteric and mythological topics: i.e. Fairy tails, historical events, astronomy, and religions and myths, it's wrong to say that a majority is Nordic in nature. Remember that Christianity has merged the Nordic myths to themselves, which could have been the root of modern Roman Catholic sect.

...to be continued...

[Twi]

Originally Posted by djmaca

@Twi

This series had always been Church vs Academy. While the Church touch the subject of magic being influenced by other esoteric and mythological topics: i.e. Fairy tails, historical events, astronomy, and religions and myths, it's wrong to say that a majority is Nordic in nature. Remember that Christianity has merged the Nordic myths to themselves, which could have been the root of modern Roman Catholic sect.

...to be continued...

I said Norse had more presence because more elements come to front, but point made. I'll shut up about it.

As for Christianity influence, I'm gonna put my thoughts in a spoiler, and remind everyone that this is one person's opinion and should not be taken too deeply. It's not offensive, but out of respect to anyone who might take it seriously.

Although, I doubt anyone who reads this series takes the context too seriously...

Spoiler for My point:

Now, as for my point on Christianity, it has pretty much invaded and integrated with most religions.

They implanted the Christianity Trinity with Baldr being the same as he who died on the cross, and Loki from Norse was originally a trickster who went too far and led to the war of the gods, but he had good points to. After Christianity came, they painted him as Satan. There are other myths, such as the Huldra, who were also changed through the integration of Christianity.


Kanaloa in the Hawaiian mythology was benevolent, but once they introduced Christianity into the story, he became the same as Loki. They needed him to fit the role and Kane's opposite.

But yes, it has become a deep part of several religions and mythology. As shown when that Valkyrie placed the symbols of the Christianity Trinity inside Gungnir, separating them is nearly impossible. it could also be said about the dual natures of her abilities.

Anyway, back to fairy tales in To Aru:

What type of abilities would a magician based on the tale of Red Riding Hood possess?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Twi

Being a mermaid was that bad? (Not really that familiar with the whole tale, just the bad ending)

No...no I think she was actually happier at the end

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It since counts since you've accepted that minor elements are just as important.




Look that's not the point at all- Actually I don't know why I'm even so adamant about this (=_=);

I don't disagree that Norse is prominent in this story, but unless the definition of Bread and Butter have changed since I became a voting citizen, you can't honestly claim that Norse is his Bread and Butter when Christianity holds a ridiculous portion of plot.

His story is basically one whole chunk of Judeo-Christian stuff, supported by Norse myth, and finally opposed by Thelemic concepts and science.....

You can't exactly say Norse stuff isn't prominent when there's like....only 3-4 overarching concepts in his power system

[Marcus H.]

There is actually a Norse story which is similar to the story of the Little Red Hiding Hood.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia article on the Little Red Riding Hood

The dialog between the wolf and Little Red Riding Hood has its analogies to the Norse Þrymskviða from the Elder Edda; the giant Þrymr had stolen Mjölner, Thor's hammer, and demanded Freyja as his bride for its return. Instead, the gods dressed Thor as a bride and sent him. When the giants note Thor's unladylike eyes, eating, and drinking, Loki explains them as Freyja not having slept, or eaten, or drunk, out of longing for the wedding.

The problem with the Little Red Riding Hood is that she herself is not exposed to magic throughout the story. So I guess the magician can base her magic on both the Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf.

This magician might not have offensive spells, but can debilitate enemies who have larger eyes than her (or can blind enemies outside a certain range), larger hands than her (can break hands which are larger than hers) and have a larger mouth than hers (can disable usage of the mouth).

Analysis: In order to see the magician more clearly, you must go closer, but you cannot use your hands to attack her or risk having your hands crushed. Casting spells will also be disabled if they require an incantation. Judging from the current characters in NewTest, Mikoto, Birdway, Kuronyan and Worst can take her down.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Twi

Anyway, back to fairy tales in To Aru:

What type of abilities would a magician based on the tale of Red Riding Hood possess?

Concealment, virginal purity(since some suspected that this is a warning to maidens to watch out for men(wolves)), not getting hurt by any person with the tag<wolf>.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

There is actually a Norse story which is similar to the story of the Little Red Hiding Hood.



The problem with the Little Red Riding Hood is that she herself is not exposed to magic throughout the story. So I guess the magician can base her magic on both the Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf.

This magician might not have offensive spells, but can debilitate enemies who have larger eyes than her (or can blind enemies outside a certain range), larger hands than her (can break hands which are larger than hers) and have a larger mouth than hers (can disable usage of the mouth).

Analysis: In order to see the magician more clearly, you must go closer, but you cannot use your hands to attack her or risk having your hands crushed. Casting spells will also be disabled if they require an incantation. Judging from the current characters in NewTest, Mikoto, Birdway, Kuronyan and Worst can take her down.

There's always a connection, even if I didn't notice

Originally Posted by djmaca

Concealment, virginal purity(since some suspected that this is a warning to maidens to watch out for men(wolves)), not getting hurt by any person with the tag<wolf>.

What about something that would call forth an invisible guardian called the Woodsman? Like a force dedicated to protecting Red Riding Hood if she is ever sealed within something, it would be cleaved in two?

Ex.) A Sealing spell, a car, a container, etc.

And she had to have the red cloak and basket for the magic to be active.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Twi

What about something that would call forth an invisible guardian called the Woodsman? Like a force dedicated to protecting Red Riding Hood if she is ever sealed within something, it would be cleaved in two?

Ex.) A Sealing spell, a car, a container, etc.

There's always Vasilisa and her Baba Yaga....

Seriously I don't think any who fought her actually lived IIRC Nikolai got eatened.....

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by djmaca

Concealment, virginal purity(since some suspected that this is a warning to maidens to watch out for men(wolves)), not getting hurt by any person with the tag<wolf>.

More than suspect, it's the most accepted interpretation of the original tale, "eating" meaning something else... Hell, one of the oldest versions has the wolf asking her to get naked and into the bed.

Anyway, another way to use that tale is for the magician to be the Wolf, assign a target as "Little Red Riding Hood" and give it a choice, if the target takes the wrong one, it gets eaten - maybe confined in a stomach like net, and subjected to acid while in it...

I think this is getting too much into ability speculation discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by leukrota

More than suspect, it's the most accepted interpretation of the original tale, "eating" meaning something else... Hell, one of the oldest versions has the wolf asking her to get naked and into the bed.

Anyway, another way to use that tale is for the magician to be the Wolf, assign a target as "Little Red Riding Hood" and give it a choice, if the target takes the wrong one, it gets eaten - maybe confined in a stomach like net, and subjected to acid while in it...

I think this is getting too much into ability speculation discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

Edit: found your post true: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0333.html

I just got this damned idea of Birdway being "Little Red Riding Hood" and some big Hispanic-Black mage from Russia taking the role of "Wolf"....

Yeah, my mind is like that.... Let's please change the subject away from LRRHood before I lose control. XD

[leukrota]

^ Maybe we can talk about how The Sleeping Beauty gets raped in her sleep and gives birth to two children before waking up... Or how Rapunzel gets pregnant during one of the prince's visits and then wonders why she's getting fatter.

[judasmartel]

How about The Little Mermaid? The mage who uses her as basis will gain Water-elemental attacks without any incantation (like Acqua) and the ability to silence enemies and summon bigger fish from her Water magic?