[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[CrystalStarlight95]

Okay, now I'm totally curious of what this "physical injury" could be!!

It can't be something...I dunno, OBVIOUS, because apparantly Yasu hadn't noticed anything, I think. But they always mentioned she was a "frail" girl. Um, she's prone to getting hurt easily? ._.

GAH *multiple facelaptopkeyboards*

[Jan-Poo]

I don't think she didn't notice before. My take is that she always knew but she only snapped then because she understood how she received that injury and who were the people involved.

Also that's probably the time when her romantic relationships started to get serious. Plus she was probably 17 at that time, with the mindset of a 14 year old teen. That's when usually people start having complexes about their bodies.

[Smeckledorf]

I still don't know if Yasu is the child from 19 years ago. Even if Kinzo was sorry for what he had did and cried every day, I still don't think Genji would have showed Kinzo who the child was. I think Yasu is either related to Genji or Nanjo, or Yasu is just some random child.
What if Yasu was just a test to see how Kinzo would react to spare possibly spare his true child from what ever he might do? We can't exactly know since Kinzo died right after meeting Yasu as Beatrice. This of course would not explain Genji's loyalty to Yasu, unless Yasu was really related to him.

[AuraTwilight]

But then this brings up the possibility that Genji is allowing Kinzo the opportunity to try raping a total stranger. Which...is incredibly fucked up.

[Kylon99]

You know, about Genji and stuff... if you look at who's backstory still hasn't been revealed yet, there's still:

George
Jessica (a bit regarding how much she knows about what's going on)
Genji

We've already been told a lot about the backstory and how the other characters think, especially about the two days of murder. This even includes most of the characters in the meta world like the Siesta sisters and the Stakes. I'm discounting Gouda, of course. 8)

George's history with magic knowledge has been heavily hinted but not really what he thinks or knows about the current situation. Genji has been shown to know *alot* but did he actively do anything suspicious? How did he get involved with Kinzo?

I guess this will be revealed in EP8?

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by Kylon99

You know, about Genji and stuff... if you look at who's backstory still hasn't been revealed yet, there's still:

George
Jessica (a bit regarding how much she knows about what's going on)
Genji

We've already been told a lot about the backstory and how the other characters think, especially about the two days of murder. This even includes most of the characters in the meta world like the Siesta sisters and the Stakes. I'm discounting Gouda, of course. 8)

George's history with magic knowledge has been heavily hinted but not really what he thinks or knows about the current situation. Genji has been shown to know *alot* but did he actively do anything suspicious? How did he get involved with Kinzo?

I guess this will be revealed in EP8?

Spoiler for Space:

I dunno, since EP 8 will apparently be more along the lines of an epilogue ... if there's any more backstory given, I doubt it will be anything that would change our view on most of the cast at this point.

I think George has had a pretty fair amount of focus, and I always chalked his suspicious knowledge about the occult, assuming he's NOT pulling an awesome play as a stealth culprit, up to the fact that he's very well read / intelligent, and presumably pays more attention to the things Maria goes on about, to boot. Shannon may also have talked on the subject with him, and if that's the case, he might've learned more on his own to impress her with or something. I mean, they have to talk about something other than teasing each other and how they wanna make lots of babies.

I would like some confirmation about Jessica's knowledge, though. Basically, I find it hard to believe that she didnt think it wierd not to see or hear Kinzo for over a year, even IF she says she didnt like being around him.

Genji is ... special. As a human piece, he performs almost like a living plot device. He acts pretty emotionless, and does alot (ALOT) of things without really questioning them, like a robot, pretty much. I'm pretty sure EP7 was the first time he was shown taking any kind of huge action of his own accord, which only makes his somewhat implausible reasoning processes even WEIRDER. And I'm pretty sure the only two expressions he's ever displayed are "talking" and "not talking". He's an automaton as the plot demands it.

Unrelated to that, but I'm currently rereading through the games. Currently on Ep3, up to where Beatrice is about to convince George to return to the mansion, and I was wondering if there was a generally agreed upon solution to this arc.

The obvious idea would be Eva ... obviously, but I think it's hinted pretty strongly that that isn't the case, and she's probably only necessary for killing Rosa / Maria, and Battler, so that's simple enough.

But, the First Twilight? Will's answer is pretty much "So, about that Shkanon...", right? But all 6 were confirmed as dead almost immediately after discovery, and all but Kinzo directly murdered. I can buy that, perhaps, an adult went around "re-killing", but that flies in the face of us being told that the adults discovered the bodies in groups, and I doubt they would all work together for that.

Second Twilight, we can blame Eva, okay fine. But then, Rudolf / Kyrie / Hideyoshi ... where did the stakes come from!? I would think only team Shkanon would have them, and while several theories are possible for how they died, but the stakes throw it off a bit. Then, later, I've forgotten the specifics of George's injury this time, but the number on the door! Everyone who wouldve known that should be dead! Perhaps it was written before, like, really early, along with the circles, but it wasnt noted upon finding the FT bodies, and I can blame Kyrie/Rudolf for killing George, but the number...?

Even with Yashkanontrice, and even WITH personality death, the fact remains that the first 4 arcs should technically be solvable without the character of "Yasu", as she wasnt introduced yet. Assuming Knox and Dine apply, a culprit should exist among the 18, so if both Shannon and Kanon are said to be dead in red, you cant really say "Well, s/he was still running around as Yasu", because Yasu didn't exist then, so that identity wasn't an option for them to "exist" as and-... ... oh, damnit, I'm just gonna back to sleep.

[Pikumin]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

However Kinzo died on the spot (no shit) and Yasu decided to never disclose what happened. The servants simply obeyed her orders.

Oh dear... You mean he literally just dropped dead right there, in the same scene? O_O

Was it because of his illness or something?

[Cao Ni Ma]

Not to mention Nanjo's death at the hands of someone. Yeah nearly all of them could be explained with personality/name death for Shannon/Kanon, right now its what the story is driving us to. But if Shannon was really physically dead at the time George was found then Nanjo's death is a real mystery.

A messed up solution to that case would be the character introduced on that very arc but thats already dead, maybe she shared a name with someone in the 18 person cast. Then when EVA-Beatrice is calling out the dead she's calling out that character instead of the one that's still alive and killing Nanjo.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Pikumin

Oh dear... You mean he literally just dropped dead right there, in the same scene? O_O

Was it because of his illness or something?

Yeah the very same scene. Basically in the arc of a few minutes Yasu

was told she was really Kinzo's daughter,
was told she was really Beatrice's daughter,
was told she was now the new head of the family,
was told that it's been all Kinzo's fault for her messed up life,
was told that Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa knew it all along and kept silent,

and on top of that

saw Kinzo dropping dead on her face right after she learned that he was her father.


Well I guess that apparently Kinzo managed to live past his predicted time through his willpower and as soon as he had no longer that he died instantly or maybe his heart failed due to the strong emotion.

I don't know. If you ask Renall he's convinced that the whole scene is too ridiculous and therefore must be fake.

[CrystalStarlight95]

I know this is (sort of) off topic, but, I just feel pretty damn sorry for Gohda. I mean, c'mon, all the guy does is be a Magical Gohda Chef, make yummy foods (Now I'm hungry ._.) and he dies all teh time.

I dunno, has the possibility of him having ANYTHING to do ANYTHING been cut out yet? When you guys talk you always add "excluding Gohda" or "besides Gohda". I find that depressing xD

[luckyssol]

Gohda will kick some ass in EP8. Just watch.

[Cao Ni Ma]

Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95

I know this is (sort of) off topic, but, I just feel pretty damn sorry for Gohda. I mean, c'mon, all the guy does is be a Magical Gohda Chef, make yummy foods (Now I'm hungry ._.) and he dies all teh time.

I dunno, has the possibility of him having ANYTHING to do ANYTHING been cut out yet? When you guys talk you always add "excluding Gohda" or "besides Gohda". I find that depressing xD

Well if Shknon is real then he is at the very least being threatened by the others into lying in EP2. Maybe he is in on it and not being threatened at all! Im talking about the scene where Kanon supposidly flipped out and killed Nanjo and Kumasawa.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Yeah the very same scene. Basically in the arc of a few minutes Yasu

was told she was really Kinzo's daughter,
was told she was really Beatrice's daughter,
was told she was now the new head of the family,
was told that it's been all Kinzo's fault for her messed up life,
was told that Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa knew it all along and kept silent,

and on top of that

saw Kinzo dropping dead on her face right after she learned that he was her father.


Well I guess that apparently Kinzo managed to live past his predicted time through his willpower and as soon as he had no longer that he died instantly or maybe his heart failed due to the strong emotion.

I don't know. If you ask Renall he's convinced that the whole scene is too ridiculous and therefore must be fake.

What about Kinzo is dead at the start of all games? Kinzo is only allowed to be a corpse at the beginning of EP3. He isn't allowed to do anything, even if it eventually results in his death. He has to be dead before the closed rooms are created.

Either that, or Kinzo was inside one of the rooms before EP3 begins and nobody notices, then he just dies there.

[Jan-Poo]

What about that red? The event I'm talking about allegedly happened in 1984. Way before the start of the games.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

What about that red? The event I'm talking about allegedly happened in 1984. Way before the start of the games.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood that. I thought you meant that this event occured for the First Twilight.

Never mind, then.

[Pikumin]

Okay then, knowing Kinzo died right away makes it seem less possible(if that scene is real), but anyway here's my guess:

Spoiler for Red guts scene:

Nanjo discovers that Yasu is pregnant with Kinzo's child. This, as opposed to an injury or mutation which she would have noticed a long time ago, could occur without any big physical changes appearing on her body, and it is something she would need a doctor to diagnose.

Personally, I think this explanation would far better justify the view she has of herself than some injury. If she HAS just got an injury or defect or something, and that's what she's kicking up such a fuss over, I would be disappointed. To me, that would just make Yasu seem like some overdramatic emo teen, and it definitely wouldn't justify everything she's done.

If she has been impregnated by Kinzo, I think that would be a much more understandable reason for why she views herself as so disgusting and incapable of loving. It is also something that could have been avoided if a) Battler had taken her away like he promised to, or b) She recieved a proper upbringing like in Lion's world. Therefore, she could blame Battler for this to an extent.

Of course, then arises the question of how/when Kinzo raped her. I dunno, if the scene where he found out she was his daughter/granddaughter is fake, then it could have happened right there and then(and I did read somewhere that in this scene Yasu was WEARING BEATO'S DRESS. If that's not asking to be raped by Kinzo, what is?).

I mean, if the scene IS fake, you could interpret it in this way:

Yasu went to Kinzo with the Beato dress.
It is revealed that she has solved the epitaph and is his daughter/granddaughter.
Kinzo rapes her.
Yasu kills him somehow(Nanjo and Genji hide any injuries he may have recieved from Krauss and Natsuhi), or he just dies from exhaustion.

Well, if it didn't happen then, I suppose it could have happened a little while before(since Kinzo suspected Yasu for a while). As for the baby, she aborted it or had it and got rid of it by some means. But this theory also depends on how innocent Yasu is. If she has the mentality of a 14 year old when she's 17, would she know if she's been raped, and how would she react to it?

Oh well that's my guess.

It doesn't portray Kinzo in a very good light.

[witchfan]

On an unrelated note... if anyone has found mention of Shannon or Kanon (either by name or by characteristics) in either one of Ange's worlds, it could be an important step in understanding the way "Shannon and Kanon" exist for the people in Rokkenjima. As has been pointed out, if we can figure that out we could probably make sense of most mysteries in the story (unless the general consensus is "oh she was crossdressing"... yeah, no). I don't have EP4 on me, but I've been scurrying through EPs 5-6 for such a mention, with no luck so far.

Originally Posted by Renall

That might not mean he meant "it was a bad ending." That could just mean "I wanted it to turn out that way, but it didn't come across quite the way I intended." It might not mean he was disappointed with the ending so much as his own efforts to write it.

I don't remember it too well, but I believe it was actually the content he was displeased with, which was the reason the ending was changed in the PS2 version. But don't take my word for it. (I think it could also be argued that he was dissatisfied with the mystery part of Higurashi in general, given the self-mockery in EPs 2-3).

[Marion]

The idea is that Kinzo was forcing himself to stay alive, but when he saw "Beatrice" he decided that he no regrets and died. I'd like to believe that it was a heart attack from the shock of seeing "Beatrice", mainly because it's funnier that way.

Think about it.

Dying from an overdose of DESIRE.

[AuraTwilight]

No way Yasu was impregnated by Kinzo. Not only is that a simply lulzy Trifecta, but it's been two years. The hell happened to the baby? Did she get an abortion or what.

[CrystalStarlight95]

Darn that DESIRE. Gets you everytime.

EDIT: Yasu could've had an abortion performed by Nanjo and Genji in secrecy?