Kannagi Manga Discussion

[Darknemo2000]

Well small or big, it seems to be influential. So influential that the ComicREX felt the need to reaffirm that the illness issues are not connected with the calumnies the author received. If it was small issue the officials would not feel the need to reaffirm.

Seems like though the first explosion subdued the shockwave is still spreading and is still strong enough to draw attention from the magazine trying to fix the things regarding the calumnies.

[Westlo]

So what did you want ComicRex do to? Not saying anything and let people assume it's related to that? That's dumb and its just leaving her out to dry when her manga is one of the most popular things in ComicRex. Kudo's to them for stopping the spreading of rumors.

[Darknemo2000]

I was just commenting that the issue apparently still exist, if the rumors would be really that small then they would not have paid an attention. It is not about what they have or do not have to do, it is about the issue apparently still being big enough for them to make a comment regarding it. Meaning that the issue still exists. From some comments you can get impression that the issue was subdued and that now everyone are busy bashing paranoid very few otakus, but it seems to be that even if the (concerning) group is big or small, the issue is still there.

[arkxkra]

this month no release for the manga right? oh man, such a important time, the author sick already, any news said when it will continue?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by arkxkra

this month no release for the manga right? oh man, such a important time, the author sick already, any news said when it will continue?

Ummm, read the last few pages for all the news there is?

[NaweG]

So, does anyone else get a "Paranoid Agent" vibe about all this?

[orion]

Originally Posted by arkxkra

this month no release for the manga right? oh man, such a important time, the author sick already, any news said when it will continue?

When she can figure out a way to get herself and her magazine out of the mess she created.

[BetoJR]

Yeah, it was totally her fault that a lot of stupid deluded fanboys got into real mad fits of girly rage when the manga started dwelling on a previous boyfriend of a "goddess", eh?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by orion

When she can figure out a way to get herself and her magazine out of the mess she created.

Strange, I call it decent story development or perhaps a hint of the obvious... these few fringe fans who actually created any "mess", well, they probably don't want to encounter me.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Yeah, it was totally her fault that a lot of stupid deluded fanboys got into real mad fits of girly rage when the manga started dwelling on a previous boyfriend of a "goddess", eh?

Actually - yes, it was her fault. Or at very least her twist's fault. She probably never thought it would cause such big storm but you can expect some reaction from virginity obsessed otaku's... I still cannot figure if author is really brave or just plainly stupid to include such twist without any mendings done in the same chapter knowing that there will be one month waiting period...

So as far as I see it it was authors fault for getting herself in this mess... Otakus raged but again they are obsessed otaku's and what else you could expect from them? No reaction after doing this to a character whose one of main traits is her innocence?... That would be stupid...

Maybe one could expect somewhat less strong reaction but again she was poking lion's nose there... and anything could happen.

[Vexx]

one of main traits is her innocence?

Unless that's explicitly stated somewhere in the material ... then its an assumption (a rather poorly thought out one) by those particular otaku. What it boils down to is that they were out of line: both for making assumptions without evidence and then having an infantile temper tantrum about it showing lack of consideration and respect. We can thank that little group for providing some validation for the bad image the fandom has. Consequences for actions works both ways.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Sometimes I am amazed how many otakus self insert themselves into story and expected to be taken seriously. Kannagi manga "controversy" is best example of this.

[Darknemo2000]

It is an assumption that makes particular type of characters so popular. It may be wrong or right but it is one of the resons why it is popular... Why for example Saber always beats Sakura inpopularity charts... Why Rei is always more popular than Asuka, despite the fact that personalization wise neither Sakura nor Asuka are inferior and sometimes actually superior, and in looks are not the main factor too... It is just taht the fragility to the outside world (and the innocence) is what makes them so attractive.

Of course it has many things but one of key factors is the innocence... being unaware of the real world and blah blah blah. Otakus feel like they are protectors, and the ones who are the first in alost all aspects of their life. Dominating virginity, lol.

Vexx, you DO realize that otaku's image is already bad, right? In here it doenst have such negative sounding but in Japan it does. They couldn't decrease there image or anything at all... Maybe in western-world...but again who cares about western world anyway? Japanese are pretty self-centered in so many aspects... So your comment about it working two folds isn't really right. Newton simply doesn't work when we stand on a zero.

[BetoJR]

Actually, there's a whole negative side of the spectrum. Bad representation in the media can always get worse.
And, yes, I totally think the mangaka was naïve enough to not realize such an outcome could be expected from as manic a fanbase as the one we dwell in. BUT, it doesn't change the fact that the reaction itself, in such publicized levels, was plain stupid. Sorry.

Plus, I never really got on the whole innocence parade to begin with...

[Darknemo2000]

It's so negative that it hardly gets any worse. Thats why Newtons action and reaction law doesnt work in here as simply it is already to the point beyond mending and beyond hurting.

Now, I do not question the reaction of it being too big (I dont think any sane person would) - it really was. Yet the author seems to really do not know what she is making and to whom. Kannagi attracted a lot of otakus with this whole magical girl that is not aware of the world thing. A moe character like nagi is all love, love and then she goes bam without trying to mend things with one month waiting period is juts too stupid and risky. The risk didn't worked.

No one questions that it was overreaction but I do question the mangaka's decision in general. I like the twist but she should have taken it differently , taking into account the single month waiting period that had to follow and avoiding such big reaction. So all in all I still count this as her own mistake.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

It is an assumption that makes particular type of characters so popular. It may be wrong or right but it is one of the resons why it is popular... Why for example Saber always beats Sakura inpopularity charts... Why Rei is always more popular than Asuka, despite the fact that personalization wise neither Sakura nor Asuka are inferior and sometimes actually superior, and in looks are not the main factor too... It is just taht the fragility to the outside world (and the innocence) is what makes them so attractive.

Of course it has many things but one of key factors is the innocence... being unaware of the real world and blah blah blah. Otakus feel like they are protectors, and the ones who are the first in alost all aspects of their life. Dominating virginity, lol.

Vexx, you DO realize that otaku's image is already bad, right? In here it doenst have such negative sounding but in Japan it does. They couldn't decrease there image or anything at all... Maybe in western-world...but again who cares about western world anyway? Japanese are pretty self-centered in so many aspects... So your comment about it working two folds isn't really right. Newton simply doesn't work when we stand on a zero.

Generally my comments ARE from a Japanese perspective, thank you. Its exactly the reason I refuse to call myself "otaku" because I know it is quite negative socially. However, over the last 10 years or so, otaku have been slowly (very slowly) coming out of the pit they were left in after those horrible murders in the late 20th century by an "otaku". Also the spectrum of what otaku means has broadened in Japan as well.

Hence my comment about antics like this simply confirming to the general populace in Japan that their opinions on otaku don't need to change. There are a lot of relatively balanced otaku... but they conceal themselves because of the behaviors of the extreme fringe. Just as members of any group should reject aberrant actions of the fringe...

The point is I understand their thinking processes but that doesn't give them a free pass. Some of the behavior is, at best, grandstanding and at worst - keeps life difficult for the rest of the fandom in Japan.

[Darknemo2000]

But thats where Newton laws kick in, every action have a reaction. Though Otaku's are a weird bunch, they are usually the ones that help you make most money. If you include the usual otaku attraction to the show, you have to know what audience it will attract. If you make your show otaku attracting one, then the chances you earn more income but also the reaction may increase in tone.

For me it is also authors fault. It doesn't mean that otaku's are not responsible, they are, but author is at fault here too. If you leave kleptomaniac in open shop and leave for some time, you have to take part of responsibility on yourself if the theft occurred. She already had to know what audience she is aiming and what audience she has. Yet she took a risk and very bad risk in general, underestimating the reaction.

As for Otaku image... I am surprised you think their image is getting improved since in 2008 social interview the majority of Japanese women voted otaku's as 2nd of people they would hate to date the most. I think their image is not really improving. Maybe the potential physical threat is decreasing, but the image itself doesn't seem like getting better. Many still consider them as disgusting creatures. Just now bit less harmful than after the accidents before. But again the whole incident is not really about physical threat either (though I think there was a psychological one).

[Guernsey]

I still don't see how it is the author's fault but I guess the twist was a bit surprising to most Otaku and the reaction was overall negative. So what if she had an old boyfriend?! I don't see it is all that surprising even if the otaku never had real girlfriends, there was no reason to take it all that seriously. It was not worth tearing apart your entire collection of Kannagi manga and I hope to see further developments on this. I don't see the reason for this controversy for what a goddess does with her life, come on!

[Vexx]

He's using the word "fault" in a way that sounds inflammatory ... as it sounds similar to the "blame the victim" mindset which has mixed acceptance.

Fundamentally though, acting out poorly generally isn't a "win" no matter what the subject (anime, soccer, etc.).

[Darknemo2000]

The problem is that I do not see her as much as an 'victim' but rather as a person who became a victim of owns choices and carelessness.

It doesn't mean that otaku's are not responsible, they are.. But the author should have been aware that she is working with unpredictable explosions and their reactions, because such Otaku attracting material as Kannagi is you get a rather explosive mixure there and have to be careful not to overdo it. She had to be bit more careful with her twist. Yet she went it all and took the risk of not explaining anything and not even softening the situation which led it to be interpreted and misinterpreted by many, with a whole month separating chapters. She was careless and got her fingers burned, thats how i view the situation. It doenst mean that otaku's are justiciable. They are not and what they are overreacting and just stupid, yet you have to be aware of their instability if you are a good author, that can manipulate the audience.

It;s obvious that mangaka is still too inexperienced and didn't took it into consideration while making a twist.

And such twist would have been fine in for example shoujo anime or seinen, or josei, but in shounen with a group otaku's already tracking it (because of otaku-friendly theme) the reaction can (and in most cases will) be very different.

Mind that, my bit softer view on otakus goes not because I think they are right, but because I believe them to be mentally unstable not fully functional in the society. Not to the point where they should be locked up, but to the point that person dealing with them has to be cautious of his/her cations while dealing with such group as well.

And sorry if I insulted you, Vexx (you seem to be rather pissed about my response). Yet I do believe that author has to take her own share of blame in given situation.