2011-11-20, 23:51 | Link #25781 | |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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2011-11-21, 01:04 | Link #25783 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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2011-11-21, 01:06 | Link #25784 | ||
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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It tend to gives answers that feels less elegant in their absurdities then the fantasy solution. Obviously that's a personal opinion. I tend to see any attempt at fully solving Umineko from a mystery pov to be doing the same thing Erika tried with Dlanor in arc 5 relating to the boyfriend cheating thing, including Dlanor's final comment. Quote:
The guy's 23 and the most epic scene he got was the seemingly first time he stood up against his mom showed as a fantasy battle. |
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2011-11-21, 01:30 | Link #25785 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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it also might have something to do with how his character song portrays him that way. and he also seems to appeal to Ryukishi's ronery otaku fanbase. |
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2011-11-21, 01:55 | Link #25786 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Random and unorganized post: anyways, i think some scene will make sense if you consider that George , Eva , and Hideyoshi was the culprits. In ep4 , Eva survived the incident by going to the secret mansion. But what if she tried to kill Battler and saw him entered the secret tunnel but got lost and end up in the secret mansion. This can give us the reason why Battler was trying to escape from the island in ep8 and somehow a reason why he didn't want to met up with Ange after the incident. Also possible that Kyrie and Rudolf fought back and killed George and hideyoshi. But they were killed by Eva. Also the reason they fought back was to help Battler Escape and if we assume that Beatrice with shannon's cloths was with Battler. That give us George motive to kill. |
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2011-11-21, 02:09 | Link #25787 | |
Senior Member
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2011-11-21, 02:47 | Link #25788 | |
The True Culprit
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* He knows about magic, and even encourages Maria to read the letter in EP1. * He sucking claims he's willing to kill everyone on the island to be with Shannon. * He's been known to fucking laugh evilly in things like his character song. * He's obsessively possessive of Shannon to the point of literally ordering her to marry him. Let's face it, he's not so much in love with her so much as in love with being in love with her. * He admits that he used to be a misogynist who used people and did underhanded things out of jealousy until he hooked up with Shannon. * Ryukishi acknowledges that it's perfectly valid to consider that George hid Shannon's letter from Battler. * He can kill children.
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2011-11-21, 02:58 | Link #25789 | |||||||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Certainly, within the context of each individual fiction itself, Yasu's murder of the family is a truly vile deed which warrants no sympathy. However, what interests me far more is why real-life Yasu would write herself in such a way. Quote:
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First, Ikuko=Yasu: There's some solid thematic evidence of this, namely that Ikuko can be read as 19, her name means "many children", and she and Yasu share the habit of giving people names that can be read as numbers. I do not deny that Ikuko=Yasu raises numerous logistical questions about how the transition occured, but if ShKanon being the legitimate answer has taught us anything, it's that this kind of thematic evidence carries enough weight to overcome any logistical problems that the theory might create. Second, the bottle-letter conspiracy (the idea they were written post-incident): There's something awfully suspicious about them, and I'm not entirely projecting that; their origin is presented as mysterious. That they were created pre-incident is seemingly impossible, yet there is seemingly irrefutable evidence that they were created pre-incident. It's a puzzle quite analogous to a closed room murder, which are usually illusions, right? And who wrote this stuff? Beatrice, the master of illusion! Quote:
But no one approaching from a mystery angle is going to buy that. Maybe, to put it another way, you mean to say that RK07 is saying that 'the actual incident shouldn't even be approached as a "mystery"'. Actually, I'd agree with that assessment. I still want to know, though. I dunno but I like it! Quote:
But not adults. Not a very useful murderer on Rokkenjima. |
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2011-11-21, 03:06 | Link #25790 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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She was the only survivor so she was suspicious if you think about everybody's POV after the incident. If Ange suddenly died from Eva's care it would be easy for them to pin point who's the murderer. Also Ange wasn't in Rokkenjima at that time and didn't know the identity of the culprit. he doesn't have powers though. Eva pretty much controlled the ushiromiya corporation. So it's possible that Eva will try to kill him if he revealed himself to the public. Others was just a story to say the least and those stories shows to us the list of the possible suspect. In Ep1 Natsuhi, Ep2 Rosa, Ep3 Eva, Ep4 Kyrie. In the Real Rokkenjima only Eva returned alived so she was a possible suspect. This is just based on my opinion. |
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2011-11-21, 03:54 | Link #25792 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Are you sure that breakdown of logic actually works in Japanese? Or was that something you invented on the spot to dig Ryukishi because you hate his guts now? |
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2011-11-21, 04:03 | Link #25793 | |
The True Culprit
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I don't hate his guts.
And I thought it was pretty obvious that blue was a joke. In seriousness, it does work in Japanese, and it's ATLEAST as valid as the argument Erika uses; both are complete fucking abuses of semantics in order to break down the intended scenario. Quote:
The point, anyway, was to demonstrate why people think George could be the culprit; not definitively trying to prove it.
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2011-11-21, 04:11 | Link #25794 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Technically, something that can be said in red. "Not his guts... literally, per se."
... anyways.. Quote:
1. Yasu - put forth by Ryukishi as 'the solution.' 2. George - put forth by the fanbase, sorta... (on one of the character polls) 3. Battler-Prime - put forth by the fanbase as a minor theory 4. Rudolf/Kyrie/Battler mafia crime family - put forth from EP7. 5. Jessica - (I'm just going to throw this one on here.) About Jessica, I'm still suspicious about her as we still don't know very much about what she thinks or what she knows. For example, I don't remember observing her lying before (nothing on the level of say, Nanjo saying he met with 'Kinzo.') I haven't seen her take any aggressive actions besides out of grief or revenge. I haven't seen her express that she knows about or participates actively in any of the conspiracies. She's like a complete blank. And THAT's why she's the culprit! Anyways, that's from a meta-gaming perspective. The one you least suspect is the real culprit... of course that would mean Gouda is at least just as guilty... (although we've seen him 'trying' to lie before in EP4.) |
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2011-11-21, 04:56 | Link #25798 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Aura, you need to speak for yourself. It's mostly you and maybe a few others I haven't noticed who have no 'fucking clue.' I really don't see things your way regarding the reds, nor do the other people arguing with you it seems.
Last edited by Kylon99; 2011-11-21 at 05:47. |
2011-11-21, 05:29 | Link #25799 |
The True Culprit
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The point I'm making is we know nothing about Rokkenjima Prime whatsoever; this is inarguable, and considering Bernkastel's personality, viewpoints, tactics, and what she seems to embody, it's entirely possible that her depictions of Rokkenjima are more accurate than any other Gameboard.
We just don't know for sure, so we can't discount the things her gameboards say wholemeal. But thanks for responding like an asshole and insulting my viewpoint and my intelligence. That's totally appreciated.
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2011-11-21, 05:58 | Link #25800 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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No, I think we know quite a few more things about Rokkenjima Prime now. Your attitude smacks of the same EP2 "OMFG it's magic, it's all useless" attitude. Which I know you don't really have. So please, just tell us what you mean and stop this swearing and arguing in extremes. Here, let's talk about something actually worthwhile. If you want to resort to saying everything is useless, go somewhere else. And like I said, if you want to question Ryukishi's authorial skills, please talk about it somewhere else. --- Here's something I thought of while I was considering the argument from the others. Remember how we had these strange reds? You are incompetent[!] hi-hhihihhihihihihihihihihihihi[!!] Renall, and probably others here have remarked how "You are incompetent" can't really be a red because it's not The Truth (tm). It's an opinion, which is, I think, on the same level as saying something like "Vanilla is the best ice cream flavor." We've said red must be contexted to have any value; we've also noticed some reds have a general context ("No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo by sight.") or an episode specific context. ("All of the master keys were under Rosa's control!") So, I what I read from most people's arguments is that one more aspect needs to be taken into account: The point of view. It would explain these strange red texts. Well, the first one at least. Maybe the second. Reasoning below: Spoiler for Long winded reasoning. There's a reason why Renall had to summarize my posts before...:
Last edited by Kylon99; 2011-11-21 at 06:08. |
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