2011-03-03, 16:51 | Link #1021 | |||
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As contrast with this movie scene Spoiler for movie spoilers:
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2011-03-03, 19:37 | Link #1022 | ||
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Altos reasons for doing things is one of the topics I most like to discuss, because he wasn't as upfront about his motives as other protagonists. I found his characterization subtle and elegant. Sadly it was so subtle and elegant that a great many people missed it and therefore found him boring, dense and indecisive. Which, IMO, is far from the true Alto. I really, honestly look forward to this. When the day arrives, please post/link it here and send me a PM. Personally, I think you do the best character and story analysis I've read about the show. And you beat some fierce competition ( Swampstorm, Crusader, ghostlightning ) in that field.
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2011-03-03, 23:14 | Link #1023 | ||
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Now, Im sorry but That I saw in the macross.cn forum more than 1year ago and there is no way I'll go in the search on that specific post made by Mzw. In other news, totally off-topic, Thess was asking for this: Quote:
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2011-03-04, 00:14 | Link #1024 | |
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Oh God THANK YOU! How cute!
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That's what I thought too, in context, because Klan was pushing Alto to Sheryl, never once assumed he was "into Ranka."
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2011-03-04, 02:02 | Link #1025 | |
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If Alto wanted to encourage Ranka, then his reaction to her getting scouted should have been more than a "meh" in my opinion. (Seriously, did you see the expectant looks on everyone else when he didn't fawn over Ranka like they did?) Plus, he was pretty pissed with Ozma (in On Your Marks) for keeping things from Ranka for Ranka's own good. I don't think Alto would play the same card. You know, using Alto's words, one can see him projecting his own issues onto Ranka ("If it were me, I'd want to know the truth!" [On Your Marks] "Why not just ignore parents and siblings altogether? They wouldn't understand you even if you told them." [Bye-Bye Sheryl]). Don't get me wrong, he'll encourage Ranka when needed, but lying just to spare her feelings, feelings he doesn't even know she has, is probably not one of them. Considering that he gives her a ticket to Sheryl's concert soon afterwards (even Michael goes "Idiot." when he does that). The only thing I can say about Alto and Ranka's relationship at this point is that he wants her to make her own decisions and follow her dreams, but that also sounds suspiciously like Alto projecting his own family issues onto her. |
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2011-03-04, 02:07 | Link #1026 | |
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Barely on topic, I wonder what are the other characters suits. Alto is King of Spades, Sheryl's Queen of Spades, Michel is the Jack/Knave of spades. Ranka is both Jokers. I see Sheryl's symbol as the Ace of Hearts. Ranka's i!plug as the Ace of Diamonds, etc. As a Tarot geek (and how the things transfer: spades = swords, diamonds = pentacles/coins, hearts = cups, clubs = wands), I think the symbolism fit them pretty well, even if they are incidental. The King of Swords (equivalent to the King of Spades) & the Queen.
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2011-03-04, 07:34 | Link #1027 | |
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Ranka expressed that she just wanted someone to listen to her sing in those episodes, she even says so herself. Also it was both Alto and Sheryl that pushed Ranka to follow her dreams, which Ranka said in the beginning was just to get people to listen to her sing. She didn't start making Alto her sole reason for singing until much later on. Also I don't think that Alto really cares about the career that she chose, after all he is the one who constantly reminds her that it is her dream at the end of it. On top of that I don't think that Alto is that averse to acting or any other performance because he is also a stunt pilot; a performer in his own right, whose job is to wow the audience, just as ordered by the client (too bad no one told Ranka that). |
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2011-03-04, 16:56 | Link #1028 | |
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It's a bit contrasting this and his way to connect with Sheryl, due to their duties they have, their sense of shared responsibility, etc. Ranka on the other hand, idealizes both Alto and Sheryl (crush + role model). At least in the beginning (or during most of the TV series). When she slaps Sheryl, for instance, I don't THINK she mean anything mean, but she has not way to deal with a crisis than mimicking her (never mind it's uncalled for due to the circumstances). Sheryl's issues have more linked to her own issues to express her inner feelings, like she wears an armor to not burden others for her sake. EDIT: Read this. Established couple it seems, it was planned ahead the theater release. ALSO good news for Macross Seven triangle. It seems it was 'resolved' by that little bit of info. Spoiler for If you didn't want to click:
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-03-04 at 19:42. |
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2011-03-05, 01:30 | Link #1031 | |||||||
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Sheryl would have sung if she wasn't sick. She sings to Alto (and for Frontier) when she's agonizing to protect everything. While Ranka was playing (unwillingly) Sharon Apple to Alto's Isamu, she was pulling a Myung. Quote:
The bottom line is. To whom Alto makes the sacrifices that matter? Ranka, in her hour of need, what did Alto want to do for her (until Sheryl persuaded him)? Nuke her. For his love to Frontier. Sheryl, in her hour of need, what did Alto want to do for her (until Sheryl, again, tells him off)? Stay by her side. Always. Telling her it's okay to stop singing, being fully aware that's helping Frontier. Quote:
That shows that, while she had a place in his heart, as soon she stopped helping Frontier, his overprotection ended. Ranka realized this, I think. He never quite listened to her song, but recognized Sheryl's. Even in the infamous "heart scene" in the sky in episode 19 that Ranka misinterpreted. Who was the person in Alto's thoughts? Quote:
Agonizing because you are ACTUALLY dying from an incurable disease after you did your duty successfully =/= being emo over a "broken heart" and wishing to die to deny to do your goddamn duty Anyway, the triangle was already resolved. *shrugs* Spoiler for spoilers:
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-03-05 at 01:57. |
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2011-03-05, 04:59 | Link #1032 | |||||
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While, y'know, Ranka was incapable of even showing any emotion about her best friend just having been wounded. Instead thinking about Altos "warm hand". Quote:
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2011-03-05, 06:09 | Link #1033 | ||||||
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First off, Alto had no idea where Ranka was. So him leaving to search for her on his own is illusory. Secondly, he made the promise to stay by Sheryls side on his own. Sheryl didn't push him to it, she actively pushed him away from her, up until the point where Alto gave his promise of his own volition. That takes pretty much care of your maligning of Sheryl. She had no motivation to free him to search for Ranka, since he had no possible avenue to find her. And you know something? He wouldn't have gone anyway, because he loves Sheryl and wanted to take care of her. And he loves Frontier and wants to protect it. Ranka running away and leaving Frontiers people to die did not sit well with him, indeed it led to him planning to fold-bomb Ranka in her face.
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2011-03-05, 06:24 | Link #1034 | |||||||||||||||||
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And Sheryl is his inspiration, if anyone was at all, because he completely flips out when she starts quitting life (including nagging her into going to the Heart-in-the-Sky concert, and when he lands, the first thing he does is go to Sheryl and tries to convince her that the stage is her home), while when Ranka does so, he simply orders Ranka to sing. Quote:
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That her infection and the Zents happened was simply out of her control, but her intent was still there. Quote:
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Alto has plenty of reasons to be sad, because all that he loves is falling apart. Quote:
While shades of his mother is there, he must care deeply for Sheryl for him to accept and stay with her rather than reject her to protect himself from feeling the hurt of his mother's death over again. Quote:
... You are aware that Sheryl feels that she's taking advantage of Alto's responsible nature, but that Alto in no way agrees, staying with Sheryl of his own free will? Unlike Ranka, who was foisted onto Alto by Alto's superiors, the promises that keeps Alto and Sheryl together are between Alto and Sheryl. Quote:
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He dreams about flying in a true, blue sky. Actors cannot just jump into a VF or Ex-Gear without education (as Sheryl amply showed us at two times). So he decides to educate himself in flying instead. To him, his family betrayed him when they refused to acknowledge his dreams, so he left them, even though if they had been patient, he could have returned to acting once his dream of flying was accomplished. The thing is, when Sheryl quits the stage, she does so without a dream replacing her previous one, and to Alto, that's inconceivable. He only quit because he had a dream that needed pursuing, and he quit as cold turkey as he could (he's annoyed when Sheryl brings show biz to school, but at the same time, he becomes drunk on the stage energy in the first episode, and when the opportunity to act or stunt presents itself, he is more than ready as long as it isn't a female role). He even speaks of the euphoric experience of being on stage in that rooftop scene. Ranka, by contrast, quit just because Alto and Sheryl stood on that rooftop. She did not follow in Alto's footsteps. Quote:
Doesn't mean that it's love or a deep bond. Alto knows that something is wrong, and that something is that some of Frontier's best defences against Vajra just skipped town (Brera's VF, Quarter, Ranka's song), and all he knows is that Ranka is idealistically running to the enemy and that Ozma doesn't have the responsibility of adults ("Is that how adults are supposed to behave?!" "I'm not an adult, I'm a man!") Quote:
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Yet it is to Sheryl Alto runs as soon as the Ex-Gear is off. Quote:
Did you know that advanced brain cancer causes strange reactions the rest of the body? Feeling more pain, more bruising, nausea and a bunch of other things? Heck, with the heavy medication Sheryl was on until she took up Ranka's duties, she should also have a lot of side effects going on. Weakened skeletal structure and a bunch of other things. I know, I've been with two people who've died from brain cancer, from the time that they lived normal lives, to the time that they couldn't move without assistance. And you do not hit them, not ever. Especially not when you can cure them instead. That scene is just so bad it's unbelievable. |
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2011-03-05, 06:49 | Link #1035 | ||
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Ok, I will honestly say I usually don't reply to these things, but... I got irked and now I have to debate...
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y'know, for his birthday. Best present ever? I'd say so. Because honestly there was a fantastically rare chance he would ever be able to otherwise. Why else do you think he sent someone in his place to go see Ranka and eat bitter cookies. Quote:
So she wasn't just shoving the earring at him, it was a "I care about you enough to give you something precious of mine to motivate you to come back alive" and you know, Alto go the hint. Why else would he look so determined after taking it in the series and promising to come back with it. I don't know why you devalued it to a bargaining chip when there are romantic ties/reasoning to the gesture. I'm pretty sure you can see countless more examples of something like that in movies or other anime (usually of the war/fighting/romance kind). EDIT: Ah~ Irisiel beat me to it :< Last edited by MichiNekoChan; 2011-03-05 at 06:49. Reason: my timing sucks. |
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2011-03-05, 07:04 | Link #1036 | ||
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That is nothing what should surprise someone. More interesting is that he is following an usurper.
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2011-03-05, 07:24 | Link #1037 | ||
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Plus, if Leon hadn't driven Frontier to attack Vajra planet, then Ranka's Do You Remember Love would have been the last song Humantradi heard. (Yes, Leon's scheming indirectly saved the world by having an army between Vajra and the rest of the universe until the misunderstandings could be cleared.) As much as I hate the guy, Leon was an adequate president for Frontier during the crisis, he just attained that position by evil means, and had bad motives, and did some really questionable things as president, but he tried his best to pull Frontier up from the abyss they had landed in, as he wasn't stupid enough to be evil for the sake of being evil (a trap many wannabe-tyrants fall into the moment they get some power). |
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2011-03-05, 07:37 | Link #1038 | |||||||
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And, really, I better do not say what I want to say at this moment about this inane assertion that Sheryl was "taking advantage". But what else can one expect from a Ranka shipper but sour grapes? Quote:
Bull. Shit. Every single sentence. Alto could have thought all day on why Ranka left, he did not have the necessary information to come even near a reasonable conclusion. Why exactly would he torment himself with continuously going over a question which he cannot answer? Alto never was one to go emo over his problems, he always preferred to do something about them. As he cannot here, he rather does something about the problems he is dealing at home. Quote:
Srlsry, but you are truly full of bullshit. You make shit up whenever it suits you, you distort character motivations and you are plainly unreliable as a narrator. I won't waste my time anymore answering your wall-of-text filibusters.
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2011-03-05, 07:56 | Link #1039 | ||
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While allied with Grace Leon himself was part of the coup de grace to and he as well maneuvered Frontier into the situation that they have to confront the Vajra. The reason why I dislike Leon - "although" he attempts to support Frontier at the end - is that he remembers me of Adolf Hitler with his action. A very charismatic person but foul as well. Quote:
And on the other side. Please change your tone and be polite. Only because other don't share your opinion does not give anyone the right to use lame words.
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2011-03-05, 08:32 | Link #1040 | |
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